If India or US attack, Afg will back Pakistan: Karzai

[roadrunner]

You seem quite a fan of Bollywood. Even though it doesn't make Pashto or Dari movies as far as I know.

They are all facts. Of course "Pushtuns have never been defeated in history" brigade doesn't like facts very much.

So you're jealous because Indians have been defeated and made manservants of every single invader for hundreds of years upon end? Let's not emotions get in the way of facts Vinod.

It is a fact that Pashtun areas have endured 10 year occupations, sometimes 30 year occupations. Defeat occurs when the invading army don't see the losses as acceptable anymore. Victory when subjugation occurs and the invaders become the rulers. You've had an opportunity to mention these armies that defeated the Pashtuns and failed to make one valid claim. I've already refuted the ones you've posted as untrue.

They were not administered directly but through the policy of collective punishments and airplane bombings as I have already said. The same policies continue now.

How can you "administer" an area through airplane bombings? doh!

That's what? Bollywood version of adminstering an area or something?

Of course Jalal was not a Pushtun! The Pushtuns have mostly fought as mercenaries and the leaders have been others.

This biography is missing the part that Jalal assembled an Afghan army after coming to Afghanistan after the death of his father. Most of his army that got slaughtered at Sindhu was made of Afghans. Of course the coward Jalal ran away from this battle as well, leaving the Afghan mercenaries to be slaughtered by the Mongols.

This coward also sacked a few Pakistani (then India, there was no Pakistan before 1947) Muslim/Afghan cities.

It's not missing anything. Pashtuns had no loyalty to the Khwarizm Empire. The people of Northern Afghanistan (Tajiks etc) were part of the Sultan's Army. From there he was able to muster his forces, though they were mainly from Samarkand (Uzbekistan). From these forces and some refugees from his empire he was defeated at the Indus River.

 

[Vinod2070]

So you're jealous because Indians have been defeated and made manservants of every single invader for hundreds of years upon end? Let's not emotions get in the way of facts Vinod.

I know one thing. The Afghan Pushtun tribals are the chowkidars and day laborers and maids and manservants of the "Indian" mohajirs and other "Indians".

And get their arse kicked off every other day while serving them. All they expect in return for being their manservants is to be called "Khan Sahib"!

You don't even get that satisfaction most of the times, do you?

It is a fact that Pashtun areas have endured 10 year occupations, sometimes 30 year occupations. Defeat occurs when the invading army don't see the losses as acceptable anymore. Victory when subjugation occurs and the invaders become the rulers. You've had an opportunity to mention these armies that defeated the Pashtuns and failed to make one valid claim. I've already refuted the ones you've posted as untrue.

First of all, to compare lawless tribes to civilized people is itself a travesty.

Second I have given enough instances where the Pushtuns were defeated. In fact they have no history of their own to speak of. They have been appendages to others for the most part.

The latest incident involved the 60000 strong Pushtun Talibunnis running at top speed before a couple of hundreds of American boots on the ground.

Now they are getting their back by blowing up girl schools. Probably this is what you think constitutes bravery!

How can you "administer" an area through airplane bombings? doh!

That's what? Bollywood version of adminstering an area or something?

They were not considered civilized enough to be administered! Was that too hard to understand?

There must be a reason Pakistan still hands out collective punishment to you tribals? They make IDPs of hundreds of thousands of you at the drop of a hat.

Think about it!

It's not missing anything. Pashtuns had no loyalty to the Khwarizm Empire. The people of Northern Afghanistan (Tajiks etc) were part of the Sultan's Army. From there he was able to muster his forces, though they were mainly from Samarkand (Uzbekistan). From these forces and some refugees from his empire he was defeated at the Indus River.

I agree with that. Pusthuns have been mercenaries throughout most of history.

Loyalty is too big a word!

BTW, what were the Pushtuns doing when the other Afghans were fighting the Mongols in their own areas? The same Mongols that had just killed millions of Muslims.

They were sitting on their arse while others were fighting in their areas?

 

[Tshering22]

Karzai seems to be backtracking these words. Talk of a mood swing!

 

[roadrunner]

I know one thing. The Afghan Pushtun tribals are the chowkidars and day laborers and maids and manservants of the "Indian" mohajirs and other "Indians".

And get their arse kicked off every other day while serving them. All they expect in return for being their manservants is to be called "Khan Sahib"!

You don't even get that satisfaction most of the times, do you?

Bollywood Weed.

In any case we're talking about territorial conquests. You're going off on tangents here because you're saturated with drugs.

First of all, to compare lawless tribes to civilized people is itself a travesty.

Second I have given enough instances where the Pushtuns were defeated. In fact they have no history of their own to speak of. They have been appendages to others for the most part.

The latest incident involved the 60000 strong Pushtun Talibunnis running at top speed before a couple of hundreds of American boots on the ground.

Now they are getting their back by blowing up girl schools. Probably this is what you think constitutes bravery!

You haven't given any instances of defeat. You mentioned Genghis Khan, and I proved that Genghis Khan defeated and suppressed the Khwazarim kingdom of present day Northern Afghans (Uzbeks and Tajiks), not the Pashtun areas.

We would be here all day if we were to name the invaders that successfully suppressed India and made manservants of the population.

They were not considered civilized enough to be administered! Was that too hard to understand?

There must be a reason Pakistan still hands out collective punishment to you tribals? They make IDPs of hundreds of thousands of you at the drop of a hat.

Think about it!

Let us think about it, genius. What would civilization be? Dropping bombs indiscriminately would be a civilized act? Eating cow dung all day would be a civilized act? Openly defaecating on the street is a civilized act?

What hallucinogenic are you on now?

I agree with that. Pusthuns have been mercenaries throughout most of history.

Loyalty is too big a word!

BTW, what were the Pushtuns doing when the other Afghans were fighting the Mongols in their own areas? The same Mongols that had just killed millions of Muslims.

They were sitting on their arse while others were fighting in their areas?

Genius comment

Islam did not suddenly drop out of the sky like you claim Pakistanis did one day in 1948. 11th century Central/South Asia probably did not have as many practitioners of Islam as it does now.

The second bit of ignorance is that there were no "other Afghans" in the 11th century since Afghanistan had not yet been formed. As I've tried to drill through your (very thick) skull for the last posts, there was Khwarizm (Uzbek, Tajik kingdom) which fell to Genghis Khan, and there were the Pashtuns that did not.

 

[Vinod2070]

Bollywood Weed.

In any case we're talking about territorial conquests. You're going off on tangents here because you're saturated with drugs.

I can understand your obsession with drugs and weed and opiates.

After all you Pushtuns are the biggest producers (and consumers?) of the stuff. Even though Alcohol (even 1% beer) is proscribed, apparently hard drugs are ok. The other Pakistanis also accuse you of many other vicious and immoral crimes in the cities as well.

"Pathani vyaj" is another speciality, though interest (usury) is again supposed to be the biggest crime.

But obsession with Bollywood! That is not understandable at all. The Bollywood movies are not made nor dubbed nor titled in Dari or Pushto as far as I know. That you would still obsess with them is really kind of funny.

BTW, long back there was a movie (Kabuliwaala) made on a stroy on one Afghan refugee in India. One of the songs is among my favorites.

You haven't given any instances of defeat. You mentioned Genghis Khan, and I proved that Genghis Khan defeated and suppressed the Khwazarim kingdom of present day Northern Afghans (Uzbeks and Tajiks), not the Pashtun areas.

We would be here all day if we were to name the invaders that successfully suppressed India and made manservants of the population.

Just because you close your eyes, doesn't mean there is no light. I have given several example but you refuse to listen. Americans (in a few days), Russians (in few hrs), Sikhs under Maharaja Ranjit Singh, the British, the Mughals, the Turks, the Mongols, the Greeks are among a very long time of names.

You people are mostly irrelavant in history BTW. You just got taken in by the dominant current of history at that time just like a useless appendage. A bunch of irrelevant tribes.

Let us think about it, genius. What would civilization be? Dropping bombs indiscriminately would be a civilized act? Eating cow dung all day would be a civilized act? Openly defaecating on the street is a civilized act?

What hallucinogenic are you on now?

Some of the example would be:

Acting like savage bandits for all of history. A lifetime of loot, rape and drugs.

In recent times:

Suicide bombers blowing up girl schools. Denying women anaesthetics because they are supposed to bear pain. Not letting women work and not letting them be treated by male doctors, so effectively leaving the sick among them to die.

In addition, killing the Shia in Northern territories and burning even their animals. Raping the men and women in Kashmir. The litany is endless.

I am avoiding going into the gory details for now.

Genius comment

Islam did not suddenly drop out of the sky like you claim Pakistanis did one day in 1948. 11th century Central/South Asia probably did not have as many practitioners of Islam as it does now.

The second bit of ignorance is that there were no "other Afghans" in the 11th century since Afghanistan had not yet been formed. As I've tried to drill through your (very thick) skull for the last posts, there was Khwarizm (Uzbek, Tajik kingdom) which fell to Genghis Khan, and there were the Pashtuns that did not.

I know facts don't get through your untrained skull. Bhains ke aage bin bajana has always been fruitless for me.

I am not even doing it for you but just to expose your typical tribal ignorance.

 

[roadrunner]

I can understand your obsession with drugs and weed and opiates.

After all you Pushtuns are the biggest producers (and consumers?) of the stuff. Even though Alcohol (even 1% beer) is proscribed, apparently hard drugs are ok. The other Pakistanis also accuse you of many other vicious and immoral crimes in the cities as well.

"Pathani vyaj" is another speciality, though interest (usury) is again supposed to be the biggest crime.

But obsession with Bollywood! That is not understandable at all. The Bollywood movies are not made nor dubbed nor titled in Dari or Pushto as far as I know. That you would still obsess with them is really kind of funny.

BTW, long back there was a movie (Kabuliwaala) made on a stroy on one Afghan refugee in India. One of the songs is among my favorites.

Just because you close your eyes, doesn't mean there is no light. I have given several example but you refuse to listen. Americans (in a few days), Russians (in few hrs), Sikhs under Maharaja Ranjit Singh, the British, the Mughals, the Turks, the Mongols, the Greeks are among a very long time of names.

You people are mostly irrelavant in history BTW. You just got taken in by the dominant current of history at that time just like a useless appendage. A bunch of irrelevant tribes.



Some of the example would be:

Acting like savage bandits for all of history. A lifetime of loot, rape and drugs.

In recent times:

Suicide bombers blowing up girl schools. Denying women anaesthetics because they are supposed to bear pain. Not letting women work and not letting them be treated by male doctors, so effectively leaving the sick among them to die.

In addition, killing the Shia in Northern territories and burning even their animals. Raping the men and women in Kashmir. The litany is endless.

I am avoiding going into the gory details for now.



I know facts don't get through your untrained skull. Bhains ke aage bin bajana has always been fruitless for me.

I am not even doing it for you but just to expose your typical tribal ignorance.

most of this is weak rambling.

on the subject of victory or defeat. victory isn't all about prevailing in specific battles. an important part of victory is the strategic aspect.

taking the example of the greeks. the greeks had a huge army, very sophisticated for their time. in fact during the initial battle to siege cities in afghanistan and pakistan they were victorious. the problems for alexander arose because after the victorious battle, the populations were not subjugated. one example is the battle in Swat Valley (though many others occurred like in Malakand). Alexander won the battle at Massaga/Swat, though wounded, because he had huge siege towers that were able to pulverize the town. he marched onto Aornus (Hercules tried to conquer?) and won the siege battle there also. After this he moved his army on towards the indus leaving some garrisons behind and a local hyparch. about a year later rebellions in the same regions he was victorious in before occurred. the effect was to cause him to send more men to the same regions and dwindle his supply of men from elsewhere (in this case from advancing further). Strategically Alexander did not achieve victory. It was a strategic victory for the Assacenians because they prevented Alexander to march further, and eventually to consider the campaign not worthwhile.

The summary to all this is that Alexander did achieve battle victories. He did not achieve political-military victory, and the original territorial victories were reversed because there was no population subjugation (though he did use brutality). He was strategically defeated.

 

[Vinod2070]

OK.............

 

[American Pakistani]

No one should take the words of Karzai seriously. One minute he say something the next minute he deny it.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

We should not take statement of this confuse soul seriously. Karzai is only Kabul's Mayor and he is not the leader Afghans hoped for. Karzai, himself has staved off numerous assassination attempts. Even he knows when the coalition forces leave then his political career and his life may be over lol