What's new

IDN TAKE: Is the 7.62x51mm Calibre Assault Rifle Suitable For Conventional War?

.
.
7.62 x51 is not assault rifle round but for LMG
In action group there are 7-8 men where only 1-2 men carry LMG one is marksmen rest are assault guys

So I don't understand author take

Hi,

I am not a big fan of the term "assault rifle".

The term assault rifle (comes from sturmgewhr), which shoots a intermediate cartridge which is typically weaker than than a full size cartridge like the 7.62x51 (.308 win).

all full size battle rifle rounds have found use in the LMG/MMG, but it is not necessarily limited to it. 7..62x51 also finds use in multiple.

7.62 x 51 N
DMR - AR10
Bolt - M24/Rem 700
Battle rif - G3/Fal
LMG - M240

7.62x54R
DMR - SVD
Bolt - Mosin Nagant
LMG - PKM

LMG's also have been chambered in intermediate cartridges like 7.62x39 (RPK) 5.56x45 (m249), 5.54x39 (RPK 74), etc.

Squad makeup is also dependent on the battle field circumstances. Read America's Dedliest sniper, Chris Kyle's book, he had some very intersting tidbits about the Polish Grom's sweeps in Iraq.

Yes but for Sniper variant not assault purpose if u know and they use both 7.62x39mm and 7.62x51 mm

H&K G3 is only rifle suited for this cartridge

But India is used to 7.62x39mm which build by OFB locally

Again not true,

You have to look at the weapons evolution a bit to understand this. there is really no hard and fast rule about which caliber for which purpose, it's all incumbent upon the design, economy of scale, and intended application. And with introduction of modular systems the differentiation fades away every day.

FAL/G3/AR10/SCAR Heavy - All are 7.62x51 Nato, they are hard hitting battle rifles and are used in the role of assault rifles although they are not by Assault rifles (one of the reasons I dont like the assault term as it is quite interchangable when it comes to application), are they suited for room clearance? not really, but could can assualt rifles and battle rifles be interchanged - quite often - yes. They all have their advantages and disadvantages. As i said in the beginning, there is no One glove fits all type deal. With every caliber comes it's own set of disadvantages. The newer rounds are where many of these concerns have been mitigated with 6.5 Grendel, and 6.8 SPC. Intermerdiate rounds having tremendous long range application(1000 yard).
 
Last edited:
.
Mate loads of assault rifle are in 7.62 it's lethal has range all you need for conventional war but for unconventional 5.56 in a building fighting insurgents works like a beast

Those are called battle rifles and not assault rifles!!One of the biggest criteria for assault rifle is that they be chambered for an intermediate round like 5.56 NATO or M 43.
 
.
I have a tough time defending the 7.62x51 nato as my favorite rounds with friends and co workers.Most of them would use it as a hunting round, but it's not liked by most a range round.
Understandable.
The aspect I enjoy is hated by most I know about the 7.62x51 Nato is it being a technical round, which might be good for my range enjoyment where I like playing with my mildot reticle, to touch 600 sometime even further,
I see.Try doing that with poorly maintained surplus SLRs, with iron sights, sights which you can not adjust for the elevation and windage knobs have long since been rusted to the point they can not be turned anymore!!Feels like those are just some beats and chips of metal, welded on the gun for mere decorative purposes rather than having any actual use!! :D
but in combat shooting a technical round can be a disadvantage.
So true (unless you have a good reflex sight with range markings, as you mentioned earlier), surprisingly, this aspect seems to be lost on most members here, I wonder why.
Also I strictly shoot full size rounds in bolt action which makes it a bit easier for my shoulders.
Oh, and besides, you can get the right mods for your guns, no such luck in the NCC unfortunately.In one incident, I almost had my right collar bone broken in half, but it was entirely my mistake though.
The recoil doesn't bother me too much, I am quite used to 12 Gauge skeet.
That and you have got thrice as much muscle mass as what I used to have back in my days in the NCC!! :)
I do want to get a 300 winmag next but then there is the 6.5 Lapua that seems more attractive with every passing day,
Get the Lapua man, get the Lapua and give us some feedback, heard some really crazy stuffs 'bout that thing.
the only issue is I hate adding calibers to my collection. Right now as it stands its 9mm, 22lr, 7.62x51N, 7.62x 39, 7.62x54R, 5.56x45Nato, 12G.
I wish we could do that here, I would definitely get myself an AR with a Grendel upper...............and 5.56 may be. :(
 
.
7.62 x39mm is assault rifle cartridge
AK-47 or others

Author mentioned

7.62 x51mm which A LMG or Sniper cartridge
So his knowledge is poor
Dude FN SCAR H is in 7.62 X 51 and also SIG-716 and also HK 417 and also MPT-76 and also other Assault Rifles in 7.62 X 51 caliber

Yes but for Sniper variant not assault purpose if u know and they use both 7.62x39mm and 7.62x51 mm

H&K G3 is only rifle suited for this cartridge

But India is used to 7.62x39mm which build by OFB locally
@cerberus No not just for Sniper but for ASSAULT RIFLES. SCAR H and BERRETA ARX 200 and SIG 716 and new COLT 901 and MPT 76 and HK 417 are all assault rifles
 
.
Dude FN SCAR H is in 7.62 X 51 and also SIG-716 and also HK 417 and also MPT-76 and also other Assault Rifles in 7.62 X 51 caliber
All the models you mentioned including the FN SCAR H actually fall into the Battle rifle category rather than Assault rifle category.Most people do not understand the difference because they are unaware of the origin of the term 'assault rifle'.The word came from the German word 'Sturmgewehr' which would literally mean 'storm rifle'.

@cerberus No not just for Sniper but for ASSAULT RIFLES. SCAR H and BERRETA ARX 200 and SIG 716 and new COLT 901 and MPT 76 and HK 417 are all assault rifles
For the nth time, none of those are actual assault rifles but battle rifles!!
 
.
Dude FN SCAR H is in 7.62 X 51 and also SIG-716 and also HK 417 and also MPT-76 and also other Assault Rifles in 7.62 X 51 caliber


@cerberus No not just for Sniper but for ASSAULT RIFLES. SCAR H and BERRETA ARX 200 and SIG 716 and new COLT 901 and MPT 76 and HK 417 are all assault rifles
Not by classical definition,
Asssault Rifle: Usually characterized by intermediate rounds (5.56x45, 5.45x39, 7.62x39)
Battle Rifles: Fullsize rifle cartridge (7.62x51 nato, )

But both do have interlacing areas of application.
 
.
Not by classical definition,
Asssault Rifle: Usually characterized by intermediate rounds (5.56x45, 5.45x39, 7.62x39)
Battle Rifles: Fullsize rifle cartridge (7.62x51 nato, )

But both do have interlacing areas of application.
why not make a cross between an assault rifle and a battle rifle and i guess its already there for almost 40 years i mean the bullpup version which can house a full 18" barrel with 7.62X51 NATO round but still is very compact , light and controlable even in full auto as all the controls and machenisms are behind the trigger where you have non usable butt stok so both DRDO and OFB shopuld make a clone of something like Tavor with 18" barrel with 7.62X51mm ammo which still be as light and controlable as any current gen assault rifle like M16 with 13" barrel and 5.56X45mm NATO round

hqdefault.jpg
 
.
Try shooting a 7.62x 51 Nato in full auto and let me know how it works out, I have shot semi - auto versions of G3 (PTR 91) and the Fal (imbel).... I did not pursue buying either of them for a good reason.

Now coming back to your point of building a bullpup 7.62x51 Nato, Why would one do that when 6.8spc and 6.5 grendel are there which are a better long range round than the 7.62x51N.

why not make a cross between an assault rifle and a battle rifle and i guess its already there for almost 40 years i mean the bullpup version which can house a full 18" barrel with 7.62X51 NATO round but still is very compact , light and controlable even in full auto as all the controls and machenisms are behind the trigger where you have non usable butt stok so both DRDO and OFB shopuld make a clone of something like Tavor with 18" barrel with 7.62X51mm ammo which still be as light and controlable as any current gen assault rifle like M16 with 13" barrel and 5.56X45mm NATO round

hqdefault.jpg

That and you have got thrice as much muscle mass as what I used to have back in my days in the NCC!! :)

Get the Lapua man, get the Lapua and give us some feedback, heard some really crazy stuffs 'bout that thing.

I wish we could do that here, I would definitely get myself an AR with a Grendel upper...............and 5.56 may be. :(
What did you get in NCC, Ishapore 7.62x51 or the SLR? I got probably 10 rounds of .303.

I would love to get the Lapua, I just got two more spike's tactical receivers, the intent is to build a Super light wieght 16" ar for my better half and fully decked bull barrel long range system. I was thinkign of getting a 300 Winmag as a long range shooting solution in bolt.
 
.
Try shooting a 7.62x 51 Nato in full auto and let me know how it works out, I have shot semi - auto versions of G3 (PTR 91) and the Fal (imbel).... I did not pursue buying either of them for a good reason.

Now coming back to your point of building a bullpup 7.62x51 Nato, Why would one do that when 6.8spc and 6.5 grendel are there which are a better long range round than the 7.62x51N.




What did you get in NCC, Ishapore 7.62x51 or the SLR? I got probably 10 rounds of .303.

I would love to get the Lapua, I just got two more spike's tactical receivers, the intent is to build a Super light wieght 16" ar for my better half and fully decked bull barrel long range system. I was thinkign of getting a 300 Winmag as a long range shooting solution in bolt.
either its a .303 lapua magnum or 7.62X51 NATO or for that matter a 5.56X45 NATO if you house them in a bullpup with 18-22 inch barrell you will have killer long range sniping capbility in a very light and compact weapon system which has interchangable barrels but is small and light enof to concealed and carried by a single soldier ... in short BullPup layout is the future :coffee:

DTA%20SRSs.jpg


you can even have a .50 cal BullPup sniper rifle

images
 
.
Try shooting a 7.62x 51 Nato in full auto and let me know how it works out, I have shot semi - auto versions of G3 (PTR 91) and the Fal (imbel).... I did not pursue buying either of them for a good reason.

Now coming back to your point of building a bullpup 7.62x51 Nato, Why would one do that when 6.8spc and 6.5 grendel are there which are a better long range round than the 7.62x51N.

This, this is the problem with them non-shooters.


What did you get in NCC, Ishapore 7.62x51 or the SLR? I got probably 10 rounds of .303.
I fired both weapons.The first rifle I ever got to fire was an OFB SMLE chambered for M 80 in the 7th standard, then got the SLR, never got to fire the .303s though.And we got to fire more than 10 rounds , our school being built over an erstwhile police training academy, our teachers in charge of the NCC took it more seriously and would arrange more than one camping tours a year for the cadets, to keep the spirit alive in their words..............and I never missed a single camping trip in my life be it to Panagarh or Diamond Harbour or the Fort William. :)

I would love to get the Lapua, I just got two more spike's tactical receivers, the intent is to build a Super light wieght 16" ar for my better half

in 5.56 I presume.
and fully decked bull barrel long range system. I was thinkign of getting a 300 Winmag as a long range shooting solution in bolt.
Wow!!Just the thinking of it gives me a hard on!! :D By the way, I guess 6.5 Lapua out of a 20" barrel might be close enough to a .300 Winmag, no??
why not make a cross between an assault rifle and a battle rifle and i guess its already there for almost 40 years i mean the bullpup version which can house a full 18" barrel with 7.62X51 NATO round but still is very compact , light and controlable even in full auto as all the controls and machenisms are behind the trigger where you have non usable butt stok so both DRDO and OFB shopuld make a clone of something like Tavor with 18" barrel with 7.62X51mm ammo which still be as light and controlable as any current gen assault rifle like M16 with 13" barrel and 5.56X45mm NATO round

hqdefault.jpg
There, the part in bold says it all. :D

either its a .303 lapua magnum or 7.62X51 NATO or for that matter a 5.56X45 NATO if you house them in a bullpup with 18-22 inch barrell you will have killer long range sniping capbility in a very light and compact weapon system which has interchangable barrels but is small and light enof to concealed and carried by a single soldier ... in short BullPup layout is the future :coffee:

DTA%20SRSs.jpg
What's a .303 Lapua Magnum??Never heard of it, you thinking of patenting it or something?? :D
 
.
either its a .303 lapua magnum or 7.62X51 NATO or for that matter a 5.56X45 NATO if you house them in a bullpup with 18-22 inch barrell you will have killer long range sniping capbility in a very light and compact weapon system which has interchangable barrels but is small and light enof to concealed and carried by a single soldier ... in short BullPup layout is the future :coffee:

DTA%20SRSs.jpg
Read your own post again, and you will see the mistake.
 
.
to @Omega007 & @MilSpec why are you guys running after my silly spelling mistakes am i here to give a grammer exam waise bhee im just an avrage muhib e watan hindustani .... in short galtion pe matt jao ... bhaavnao ko samjho sirji :pleasantry:

images
 
.
to @Omega007 & @MilSpec why are you guys running after my silly spelling mistakes am i here to give a grammer exam waise bhee im just an avrage muhib e watan hindustani .... in short galtion pe matt jao ... bhaavnao ko samjho sirji :pleasantry:
Where did I say anything about your spelling mistakes??That would be rude bro. Oh, you mean I marking parts of your posts in bold??Dude, I'm sorry but I didn't really intend to point out your supposed spelling mistakes rather, I was pointing out some technical impossibilities in your wishlist, @MilSpec would get it, oh and also, there is no such thing as a .303 Lapua Magnum though, that calibre has been out of production long since.There is one Lapua round .338 calibre but that wasn't the one we were talking about.

By the way @MilSpec sir, @GURU DUTT 's words got me thinking.I mean is it really possible to design a 7.62X51N chambered battle rifle with full auto mode with a good degree of stability during long bursts??!!How bout a piston arrangement something in the lines of the counterbalance recoil system of the AK 107, think such a configuration might work??You being an engineer and one who has a fair experience of shooting different cartridges out of different rifles, would be best suited to give a feedback.Thanks in advance.
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom