ICJ rejects India’s plea for acquittal, repatriation of Kulbhushan - Updates, News & Discussion

[terry5]

India wanted to set him free, ICJ says NO. India wanted his acquittal from Military Court's verdict, ICJ says NO.

He’s going to die in Pakistan

Yaay has there ever been a worse year for Indians lol

 

[1Paki$tani]

I just dont get these Indians.

1. Indian only got consular access.

2. Pakistan will make review decision to ensure miscarriage of justice was not done by denial of consular access.

Now let us say Pakistan decides to refer the matter to Islamabad High Court or Lahore High Court for review and affirmation of decision.

Both courts a open courts thus each and everything will be discussed and our media will provide minute by minute update of Court proceedings and it will be flashed on the world stage, each and every deed.

It will be something like this... I will have my popcorn ready.

 

[Khafee]

Yes agreed. But our failure/breach and not respecting the convention does not make him any less terrorist or spy. Furthermore, I suggest you to go over my post # 839 in this thread. The Azaad Adliya will also follow the same laws which military courts followed. Yes, the proceedings will be relatively more transparent and open, but I shall warn you not to get high and optimistic hopes. KJ case is pretty much solid...But its good to try all options available. And I respect his and the Republic of India's rights in this regard. Bear in mind that even without ICJ verdict, he and India had the option to review his sentences awarded in civilian courts of Pakistan, i.e in High Court...and after that, you can still file an appeal in Supreme Court.

Where would be the fun in that? India wanted to sensationalize this issue. Humiliate Pakistan internationally.

Oh Well, they plan, and HE plans

 

[1Paki$tani]

ICJ said Pakistan breached Jadhav’s rights by denying him consular access and review and reconsideration must guarantee that this violation of his right and possible prejudice caused by the violation are fully examined.

I believe its the ‘Azad Adliya’ of Pakistan which will be at centre stage.

So what??? We said it before few days ago that the best relief India could get is consular access and that there will be no acquittal or re-trial.

That is the result and it was something we thought to be the worst case scenario.

Now we are free to walk him to the gallows, but we dont want that at this stage as we are having fun as Indian is falling over itself to get humiliated.

Its like somebody saying is kay sath ziadati ho hai but that person goes nahi nahi meray sath aain baain shaain hova hai.

 

[Khafee]

 

[PDF]

The important question is, after he his hung, will he be buried, or cremated?

Who says he will be hung? He might suddenly die out of an illness, heart attack or get killed in a fight inside prison. There are so many ways he can die so lets be open to all possibilities. His burial or cremated question comes later...but his dead body will most likely be handed over to India. We need to take care of India's precious gift to Pakistan and return it back to them in one piece...right?

 

[Ghareeb_Da_Baal]

#sukheelee

 

[Vortex]

It's a very interesting question posed by @Khafee sir.

If he has reverted then a burial.

If not then only his ashes must be returned, not the body.

Thanks I never took the problem in this angle.

 

[BL33D]

hey,

It's our choice & way to abide by ICJ ruling... India is not in position to dictate any term. You got the counselor access as per verdict but that will done as per our choice too. Review will be done with full weight to hang him, as the verdict says. He is not acquitted hence, not innocent. He is not release, hence, India is not going to have him. He will not be returned, hence, India shouldn't dream at all - In fact Indian Establishment is just hiding behind Indian Media claims. ICJ did not say he is innocent but more onto that, proved that KJ has two original passports with different names - you know what that means...

All in all, you can choose one victory of "Counselor Access" as per your convenience but the man lost the last chance of being proven innocent by all means and India is responsible for that. Why should we provide evidence to ICJ that couldn't acquit KJ (proven). Now as the retrial & counselor access will done as per our choosing, on every single hearing, world will came to know about how KJ network worked & how many affiliated personnel are busted to expose Indian design. No rush my friend.

You are a mod and been here quite a while right, so u know that ICJ didnt have any jurisdiction to let him free or acquit. ICJ can only tell to have a fair trial and the necessary process that should be taken for the humanitarian and legal basis. We didnt expect you would release him. For that there would have been a trial of the validity of the evidence in the court which didnt happen. Sure, i wanna see too how he killed innocents and did terrorist activity. I am really curious. Hope the trial happens in a civil court and we get to know all the truth. Its consular btw.

 

[1Paki$tani]

You are a mod and been here quite a while right, so u know that ICJ didnt have any jurisdiction to let him free or acquit. ICJ can only tell to have a fair trial and the necessary process that should be taken for the humanitarian and legal basis. We didnt expect you would release him. For that there would have been a trial of the validity of the evidence in the court which didnt happen. Sure, i wanna see too how he killed innocents and did terrorist activity. I am really curious. Hope the trial happens in a civil court and we get to know all the truth. Its consular btw.

BS. that was you main plea. Cancellation of sentence and order of release.

There is no re-trial and only a review of decision, which he had anyway without even going to ICJ. Like all those who were sentenced by military court has a right of review before High Courts and than Supreme Court. But Military courts were in accordance with the constitution and sentences by those courts have been upheld.

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

View attachment 569618

View attachment 569619

Pakistan Zindabad

This should be pinned as the first post in the thread. Embarrassment for India.

 

[sohailbarki]

India unlikely to get what it wants from ICJ in Jadhav case

Listen

LONDON: The Indian government is unlikely to get relief from the International Court of Justice (ICJ) on its three main demands -- at least acquittal, release and return of the captured spy Commander Kulbhashan Jadhav, international law experts familiar with the case told The News.

On Wednesday, July 17, 2019 at 3:00pm The Hague time, the ICJ will, at a public rehearing, read out and hand down its judgement in the case which has captured attention of millions of people. The case of Jadhav has been a major point of contention between Pakistan and India after Pakistani security forces captured Jadhav while he was carrying out his secret mission of sabotage and terror inside Pakistan.

A careful look at the case skeleton of Pakistan and India shows that India has demanded that the ICJ ‘at least’ order the acquittal, release and return to India of Jadhav.

In its written and oral arguments presented by English Barrister Khawar Qureshi QC, Pakistan contented that the ICJ should grant no relief to the Indian and in in the alternative, also pointed the availability of effective review by the Pakistani high courts or the military courts of Pakistan as provided by Article 199 of the Constitution of Pakistan, coupled with access to a lawyer in accordance with Article 10 of the Constitution.

A legal expert, who has represented cases at the ICJ, said on condition of anonymity that Barrister Qureshi QC had correctly told the ICJ that at no stage since this convention on April 10, 2017 has Commander Jadhav or any member of his family or any other party sought to invoke the review jurisdiction of the Pakistani high court, nor have they ever made any request for consular access for this purpose.

The Jadhav case was brought by India against Pakistan under the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations 1963 (article 36(1)(b). India alleged that Pakistan has committed a breach of the VCCR 1963 by failing to grant immediate consular access in respect of Jadhav on March 25, 2016 alleging that the military court procedure for espionage on April 10, 2017 was flagrantly unfair.

On May 18, 2017, the ICJ ordered provisional measure to preserve the status quo without any finding on the merits. Following the filing of written pleadings and evidence on the merits of the case by both Pakistan and India, a hearing was held before the ICJ from February 18-21, 2019. Pakistan’s legal submissions were presented by English Barrister Khawar Qureshi QC while India’s legal submissions were presented by Indian counsel Harish Slave SA.

India claimed that Jadhav is an innocent businessman who was kidnapped from Iran, brought to Pakistan, and tortured to confess that he was a commander in Indian navy working with Indian Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) -- India’s main intelligence agency. India claimed that it was entitled to obtain consul access to Jadhav as soon as detention was made public by Pakistan on March 25, 2016. India claimed that the trial and conviction of Jadhav for espionage and terrorism offences by a military court on April 10, 2017 was a farce. India contented that the denial of consular access requires the ICJ to at least order the acquittal, release and return to India of Jadhav.

Pakistan rejected all of Indian assertions. The international law expert told The News that Pakistan forcefully pointed to evidence obtained from Jadhav after his arrest and during the criminal process leading to his conviction as amply demonstrating his activities in fomenting terrorism and engaging in espionage within Pakistan. The expert said that Pakistan maintained it would be compatible with international law for someone sent as a spy/terrorist by a state to be afforded less to officials of that state, as India asserted.

Pakistan also pointed to an express agreement on consular access dated May 21, 2008 between Pakistan and India which allows each state to consider a request of consular access on its merits in a case involving national security. The law expert said that India had no answer – and didn’t contradict - to Pakistan’s case that Jadhav was provided with an authentic Indian passport in a cover Muslims name of Hussein Mubarak Patel by the Indian authorities -- a clear and obvious link between his conduct and the government of India. The expert said that such a conduct is a blatant violation of international law should bar any claim for relief from a court.

During the ICJ proceedings, India refused to reply on this issue and unconvincingly described it as mischievous propaganda. The passport had been examined by a former UK chief immigration officer who had trained the Indian authorities. The passport has been used at least 17 times to enter and exit India.

In addition, Pakistan pointed out that in all of the ICJs previous decisions concerning Article 36 of the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations 1963 the court made it clear that it was not a sort of criminal appeal and the presence of effective review and reconsideration by domestic courts was an appropriate remedy, even if a breach of the right to consular access had been established, the high court and SC of Pakistan provide such review as confirmed by leading UK-based law experts.
https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/498932-india-unlikely-to-get-what-it-wants-from-icj-in-jadhav-case

So, It proves to the international community that India is state sponsor of Terrorism # Mother of Terrorism

 

[Zweihander]

You are a mod and been here quite a while right, so u know that ICJ didnt have any jurisdiction to let him free or acquit. ICJ can only tell to have a fair trial and the necessary process that should be taken for the humanitarian and legal basis. We didnt expect you would release him. For that there would have been a trial of the validity of the evidence in the court which didnt happen. Sure, i wanna see too how he killed innocents and did terrorist activity. I am really curious. Hope the trial happens in a civil court and we get to know all the truth. Its consular btw.

So then why did your gov run to ICJ begging for his release? LOL

And as for you wanting to see evidence, he's a RAW spy involved in terrorist activities caught by our intelligence agencies that means dealing with sensitive information that you or the rest of the world has no privilege to see. But you sure will have the privileges to receive his ashes via Wagha border or would you like us to send it through Iran?

 

[Adonis]

So then why did your gov run to ICJ begging for his release? LOL

And as for you wanting to see evidence, he's a RAW spy involved in terrorist activities caught by our intelligence agencies that means dealing with sensitive information that you or the rest of the world has no privilege to see. But you sure will have the privileges to receive his ashes via Wagha border or would you like us to send it through Iran?

They did not begged for release....their main intent was to build the case on no-counsellor access basis and to put a hold on the execution.....citing it is a verdict by Military Kangaroo court (not a civilian court)...over which they have succeeded......His Release was not in jurisdiction of ICJ especially in wake of evidences of him accepting everything in Public.

My views.....his execution will not happen soon now....all that legalities of giving Indians, his access, they creating Dramas (of delay) will keep on over the screen...however behind the screen they could be negotiations.....in exchange of him with ISI colonel / India to be soft on Pak in international forums on terrorism/FATF etc.....

Kashmir for sure has gone in cold storage for a while.....

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

What's really amusing is pakistan fought in icj not to give counselor access to jadhav claiming to be a spy, but icj gave access

Doesn't this suffice that icj didn't agree with them and proofs are not enough....

Jingoism on rise

What really is amusing that India fought all out to get Jadhav return to India by asking ICJ to reject his punishment sat by a Pakistani militarily court. But after all that, India only got a consular access so that Pakistani govt can 'review' his punishment. Even that review will be subjected and 'only' destined thru Pakistani court which obviously will end up giving him death sentence yet again. So yeah, if getting consular access is equivalent to freedom of Jadhav in the eyes of Indians, than yes Indians can jump up and down in joy.

For all the lying scums in here saying that India ONLY demanded access ... See below what all they demanded and what ONLY they got today!

FINAL SUBMISSION
BY THE REPUBLIC OF INDIA
(1) The Government of India requests this Court to adjudge and declare that, Pakistan acted in
egregious breach of Article 36 of the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, 1963 (Vienna
Convention) in:
(i) Failing to inform India, without delay, of the detention of Jadhav;
(ii) Failing to inform Jadhav of his rights under Article 36 of the Vienna Convention on
Consular Relations, 1963;
(iii) Declining access to Jadhav by consular officers of India, contrary to their right to visit
Jadhav, while under custody, detention or in prison, and to converse and correspond with
him, or to arrange for his legal representation.
And that pursuant to the foregoing,
(2) Declare that:
(a) the sentence by Pakistan’s military court arrived at, in brazen defiance of the Vienna
Convention rights under Article 36, particularly Article 36 paragraph 1 (b), and in
defiance of elementary human rights of Mr. Jadhav, which are also to be given effect as
mandated under Article 14 of the 1966 International Covenant on Civil and Political
Rights (ICCPR), is violative of international law and the provisions of the Vienna
Convention;
(b) India is entitled to restitutio in integrum;
(3) Annul the decision of the Military Court and restrain Pakistan from giving effect to the
sentence or conviction in any manner, and
(4) direct it to release the Indian National, Jadhav, forthwith, and to facilitate his safe passage to
India;
5) In the alternative, and if this Court were to find that Jadhav is not to be released, then
(i) Annul the decision of the Military Court and restrain Pakistan from giving effect to the
sentence awarded by the Military Court,
or in the further alternative
(ii) direct it to take steps to annul the decision of the military court, as may be available to it
under the laws in force in Pakistan,
and in either event
(iii) direct a trial under the ordinary law before civilian courts, after excluding his confession
that was recorded without affording consular access, and in strict conformity with the
provisions of the ICCPR, with full consular access and with a right to India to arrange for
his legal representation.
Thank you.
The PRESIDENT: I thank the Agent of India, Dr. Mittal. The Court takes note of the final
submissions which you have just read on behalf of the Republic of India.

https://www.icj-cij.org/en/case/168


#2 - rejected
#3 - rejected
#4 - rejected
#5 - rejected

Go die in shame you lot!

Thank you for the post. @ Indians : you guys got busted here clearly.