IAF's Performance Tumbling.

[saurabh]

self delete..

 

[sab]

lalay ki jaan,
reply with facts. thanks

Do you always read the last post before making passing comment and shifting to other threads???? Sometimes do read whole thread before jump in....

 

[saurabh]

^^^^^

Till date 9 F-16 have been crashed, the last one in July last year. Surprisingly all other f-16 crashed before 1994 when the fighters were not so old.

Keep in mind that in it's initial stage of induction, the F-16 saw extensive combat against Afghan/Soviet aircrafts, at least four of these crashes were unavoidable. In any case loss of nine aircraft in some 28 years of operation including five years of combat flying amounts to one aircraft every three years. Now compare that with the IAF suffering the loss of some 30 twin engine Jaguars in as many years without once firing in anger.
The record for IN Harriers is even more depressing.

9 out of how many?? 50?? (I dont remember the correct figure)
That too, it is the most prized fighter of PAF. I can agree on the unavoidable 4. Still 5. While F-16 is supposed to be more maintenance friendly than anything in IAF inventory. About your figure of 30 (out of more than 100), I am not sure all of them were lost. Some were (AFAIK) recoverable.

Even than, some crashes of Jag were unavoidable too, like what I remember, 1 crashed into a vulture (or may be it was vice-versa, I dont remember wel!!)

 

[karan.1970]

Guess we are picking up some bad habits from you guys.

Dont think so. Both countries are already champions in this in their own right...

 

[DMLA]

I think we should do an analysis based on "10000 flying hours" as is the norm. I vividly remember an article which stated that PAF had high number of crashes per 10000 flying hours from 1991 to 1998 by air marshal (retd.) ayaz ahmed khan. It would be interesting to compare the same for both IAF and PAF for the last 10 years!

 

[karan.1970]

I think we should do an analysis based on "10000 flying hours" as is the norm. I vividly remember an article which stated that PAF had high number of crashes per 10000 flying hours from 1991 to 1998 by air marshal (retd.) ayaz ahmed khan. It would be interesting to compare the same for both IAF and PAF for the last 10 years!

I did try finding that but nothing is available for PAF post 1998

 

[notsuperstitious]

Man, you are much to do about nothing, care to enlighten us as,
since when Snow White has been living in India.

since the time christina palmer is living in pakistan.

 

[notsuperstitious]

9 out of how many?? 50?? (I dont remember the correct figure)
That too, it is the most prized fighter of PAF. I can agree on the unavoidable 4. Still 5. While F-16 is supposed to be more maintenance friendly than anything in IAF inventory. About your figure of 30 (out of more than 100), I am not sure all of them were lost. Some were (AFAIK) recoverable.

Even than, some crashes of Jag were unavoidable too, like what I remember, 1 crashed into a vulture (or may be it was vice-versa, I dont remember wel!!)

F16s spent a lot of time on bench due to non availability of spares when uncle sam pulled the plug, no?

and how many crashed in combat?

and why is no data available per 10000 hrs of flying wink wink eh!

 

[Windjammer]

9 out of how many?? 50?? (I dont remember the correct figure)
That too, it is the most prized fighter of PAF. I can agree on the unavoidable 4. Still 5. While F-16 is supposed to be more maintenance friendly than anything in IAF inventory. About your figure of 30 (out of more than 100), I am not sure all of them were lost. Some were (AFAIK) recoverable.

Even than, some crashes of Jag were unavoidable too, like what I remember, 1 crashed into a vulture (or may be it was vice-versa, I dont remember wel!!)

The F-16 indeed has a commendable reliability but considering it's a single engine machine and has seen extensive combat flying not forgetting the dilemma of sanctions effecting spare parts the loss of mere five would satisfy the most ardent critic and keep in mind technically the PAF aircraft are nearly 30 years old as they haven't seen any upgrades until now.
As for Jaguars, aircraft involved in accidents are around 36 while 30+ were written off, and these machines have gone through several upgrades.

 

[Windjammer]

since the time christina palmer is living in pakistan.

Actually since Aaj Tak has been rubbing you up the wrong way.

 

[Windjammer]

F16s spent a lot of time on bench due to non availability of spares when uncle sam pulled the plug, no?

and how many crashed in combat?

and why is no data available per 10000 hrs of flying wink wink eh!

Pulling the plug didn't prove as costly as being screwed by Mr Moscow with a decommissioned carrier.
You may crack the mirror by smiling upon learning that the F-16 fleet wasn't grounded for a single day.
Losses under combat conditions are inevitable, what's the excuse for the IAF.

 

[karan.1970]

Pulling the plug didn't prove as costly as being screwed by Mr Moscow with a decommissioned carrier.
You may crack the mirror by smiling upon learning that the F-16 fleet wasn't grounded for a single day.
Losses under combat conditions are inevitable, what's the excuse for the IAF.

Is there any data available for PAF on accidents per 10000 hours of flying??

 

[karan.1970]

Pulling the plug didn't prove as costly as being screwed by Mr Moscow with a decommissioned carrier.
You may crack the mirror by smiling upon learning that the F-16 fleet wasn't grounded for a single day.
Losses under combat conditions are inevitable, what's the excuse for the IAF.

he doesnt mean the fleet but individual aircrafts...Would be great to know how many hours of flight sorties did these F 16s did in total..

 

[Windjammer]

Would be great to know how many hours of flight sorties did these F 16s did in total..

Is there any data available for PAF on accidents per 10000 hours of flying??

karan, give me a day or so, hopefully i should have that information for you.

 

[sab]

Has anyone heard of any PLAAF Air-craft crash? I think PLAAF maintains a tight lip strategy about it. I got following statistics in a forum about PLAAF plane crashes up to 2004. I am giving the forum link as well as the link of the Chinese news site where the source article was published ( you need to use a translator to read the original one). Seems they are also not far behind of India or Pakistan.

Forum link [Accident Report] PLAAF JH-7 accidents in China - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums

original source ÖйúÕ½¶·»úʧʼǼ--ÖлªÍø--¾üÊÂƵµÀ





In the Chinese (China) news site china.com, an article dated 2005.05.25 at
http://military.china.com/zh_cn/bbs/.../12342296.html
has a list of PLA/PLAAF/PLAN accidents and crashes, in 1980 to 2004, in China.

Disclaimer: I don't know how real/unreal these are, or whether these are more science phantasy by China bashers, but I translate them for future comparison/verification anyway.

9 November 2004:
In Yun Nan Province, near Meng Zi, two J-7B collided.
44 Division, PLAAF.
Lead pilot martyred. Wingman pilot ejected.
[This was reported by major news agencies, and very probably real.]

30 June 2004:
About 80 km from Wu Han City, a J-7B flew into a thunder storm, had problem, and crashed, while returning to base.
On the ground, one civilian killed, one civilian wounded. Two houses burnt.
Pilot ejected.
[This was reported by major news agencies, and very probably real.]

2004:
In Liao Ning Province, a JJ-5 crashed.
[The article writer noted this as "unconfirmed".]

2004:
Near Yan Ji, a J-7E crashed.
[The article writer noted this as "unconfirmed".]

2004:
Near Chang Sha, A Su-30MKK crashed.
[The article writer noted this as "unconfirmed".]

2004:
Near Zun Hua, a J-8 crashed.

2004:
Near He Fei, a Su-30MK2 crashed.
Pilot(s) ejected.

18 October 2002:
A Z-9 violated disciplines, flew beyond the training area at very low altitude, flew into power lines, and crashed.
Four crew martyred.

12 July 2002:
A JJ-6 had engine problem and crashed.
Pilot(s) ejected.

27 May 2002:
A Su-30MKK crashed.
Two crew ejected.

March 2002:
At high altitude and high speed, a J-8B pilot had G-LOC. The aircraft oversped and disintegrated.
Pilot martyred.

27 September 2001:
At 10:45, in Cheng Du military district, Fu Shun County, Wan Shou Town, near Guang Rong Village, a CJ-6, number 61723, crashed into a mountain.
Cheng Du military district air force, PLAAF.
Pilot martyred, body located at 22:30.

August 2001:
A Su-30MKK had landing gear problem. To attempt to save the aircraft, pilots didn't eject. Crashed and exploded while landing.
3rd Division, PLAAF.
Two crew martyred.

July 2001:
In Inner Mongolia, desert region, a J-7B crashed.
7th Division, PLAAF.

2 June 2001:
A JJ-7 had bird strike and crashed.
Pilot(s) martyred.

12 April 2001:
A J-7M had bird strike and crashed, while taking off.
3rd Test Flight Wing, PLAAF, based at Cheng Du.
Pilot martyred.

11 April 2001:
A Q-5 stalled and crashed.
28th Division, PLAAF.

1 April 2001:
A J-8B, number 81097, and an USN EP-3E collided, and the J-8B crashed.
9th Division, PLAN, based at Ling Shui AB, Hai Nan Province.
Major WANG Wei martyred.
[This was reported by major news agencies, and very real.]

1 April 2001:
A J-7B, number 30901, had bird strike and crashed, while taking off.
19th Division, PLAAF, based at Nan Yang AB, He Nan Province.
Pilot, a wing deputy commander, martyred.

31 March 2001:
A J-7E crashed, because engine turbine blade flew out.

2 February 2001:
A Su-27 had lubricant ventilator cracked, lubricant steam leaked, and caught fire. Aircraft crashed while landing.
19th Division, PLAAF, based at Ji Nan AB, Shan Dong Province.
Pilot martyred.

4 January 2001:
In He Nan Province, at Zheng Zhou AB, two Y-8, number 31242 and 31243, crashed while landing, because of icing on tail wings.
13th Division, PLAAF.
12 crew martyred.
One aircraft crashed into civilian house(s), killed six more and wounded two more.

19 September 2000:
A Y-7, number 3418, crashed while landing.
All crew martyred.

August 2000:
In Chong Qing, a Su-27UBK had fuel pipe cracked and exploded in mid-air.
33rd Division, PLAAF.
Pilot WU Xin and instructor pilot LIN Ling martyred.

28 March 2000:
In Jiang Xi Province, a J-7E had mechanical problem, lost control, and crashed.
14th Division, PLAAF, based at Zhang Shu AB, Jiang Xi Province.
Pilot martyred.

November 1999:
In Cheng Du military district, during an exercise, three J-7E launched missiles and shot down each other.
Pilots martyred.
[IMO, this is too strange to be true.]

1 April 1999:
A JJ-6 had mechanical problem and crashed.
Pilot ejected.

30 March 1999:
A Q-5C had secondary wings connections left-right reversed. During take-off, it slanted off the runway to the left and inverted.
Pilot martyred.
[I think "secondary wings" means "ailerons"?]

19 February 1999:
A H-6, while landing, hopped and crashed.
All crew martyred. A H-6 usually has six crew.

18 November 1998:
A J-7 had engine compressor cracked and crashed.
Pilot ejected.

22 October 1998:
A JJ-7, while practising take-off and landing, couldn't lower its left landing gear.
Pilot(s) ejected.

October 1998:
A J-7L trainer crashed into a mountain.
Pilot martyred.

15 September 1998:
In Tian Jin, near Yang Cun, a Ba Yi J-7EB, number 10, was looping at low altitude, stalled, and crashed.
The Ba Yi is the PLAAF air demo team.
Pilot YANG Sheng Li martyred.

25 August 1998:
A JJ-6 was test-running on the ground, engine caught fire, and burnt out.

21 July 1998:
A J-6 had engine problem and crashed while taking off.
Pilot martyred.

May 1998:
A Su-27SK, number 13, disintegrated in mid-air, because of careless ground checks and pilot's manoeuvring.
Based at Wu Hu AB, An Hui Province.
Pilot CHEN Li Ming martyred.

27 April 1998:
Two J-7D collided and crashed, during night training mission.
29th Division, PLAAF, based at Qu Zhou AB, Zhe Jiang Province.
Lead (number 25106) pilot ejected. Wingman (25007) pilot martyred.

27 February 1998:
A Z-11 flew onto the ground because of pilot error, during low altitude test flight.
Crew not wounded.

17 February 1998:
A JJ-6 took off, engine caught fire, and crashed.
Two crew martyred.

12 November 1997:
At Sui Xi AB, two SU-27SK took off, collided, and crashed.

6 November 1997:
A Su-27 engine flamed out and crashed.

10 October 1997:
A JJ-6 flew into power lines and crashed.
Two crew martyred.

23 August 1997:
A JJ-7 had bird strike, while taking off for night traning sortie.
Pilot(s) ejected.

August 1997:
In Chong Qing, a 33rd Division, PLAAF, J-8B and a Y-6 collided while landing.
J-8B pilot ejected.
Y-6 four crew martyred. Y-6 was carrying 20 air-launched bombs.

14 July 1997:
Two J-7 crashed while landing in poor weather.
Two pilots martyed.

May 1997:
A Su-27SMK [sic] crashed into a mountain, because novice pilot unfamiliar with night training.
Based at Sui Xi AB.
Pilot LIN Zhi martyred.

January 1997:
In Gui Lin control area, a J-7 crashed.
2nd Division, PLAAF.

November 1996:
Two J-8B, number 81295 and 81186, crashed.
PLAN, based at Ling Shui AB, Hai Nan Province.
Pilots WANG Fang and LI Ming martyred.

27 November 1996:
In Si Chuan Province, two Su-27UBK collided while flying close formation, after lead aircraft engine flamed out.

13 October 1996:
A J-6 had both engines sputtered and crashed.
Pilot martyred.

11 June 1996:
A J-6 flew into a spiral and crashed.
Pilot martyred.

April 1996:
In Hu Bei Province, at Yi Chang AB, a Su-27SK crashed while landing.

24 June 1994:
A flight of two JJ-6 flew into a thunder storm, attempted and failed emergency landings.

10 June 1994:
A H-5 had compass malfunction, got lost, bingo fuel, and failed emergency landing.
Crew martyred.

23 April 1992:
A J-6 crashed, because of pilot error.
Pilot ejected.

22 July 1988:
A J-6 crashed.
Pilot martyred.

21 July 1987:
A J-6 had engine flame-out and crashed.
Pilot martyred.

16 September 1984:
A J-6 crashed, because of pilot error.
Pilot martyred.

29 March 1980:
A J-6 crashed into a mountain while landing.
Pilot martyred.