IAF UPGRADED MI-35 VS PAF COBRA

[aditya_friend]

WHICH ATTACK HELICOPTER IS SUPIRIOR OF THE TWO .

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

How about posting some arguments and information yourself, so people have something to discuss and start off with?

 

[aditya_friend]

IAF MI-25/35



IAI's Tamam electro-optical division was quick to offer an affordable upgrade package for the Mi-24 that required reduced development time and risk. The Indian Air force contract covered prototype manufacture and testing in Israel, with production conversion to be undertaken at the customer's facilities. No airframe, flight control system, autopilot, power plant, transmission or rotor system changes have been made by Tamam due to the complexity and costs of such rework and any subsequent required qualifications.

The Mission 24 upgrade package as sold to the Indian Air Force is built around a 1553B digital databus. The heart of the upgrade is a single mission computer developed with IAI MLM; it is a derivative of the model used in the US Air Force T-38 upgrade program, in which IAI is the principal subcontractor.

Mission 24 utilizes Tamam's proven helicopter multi-mission optronic stabilized payload HMOSP, which weighs around 30 kg (66 lbs). It is a turret ball mounted derivative of the combat proven IAI Tamam night targeting system installed in the US marine corps AH-1W super cobra and Israeli DF/AF Cobra attack helicopters FoV (between 2.4 deg and 29.2 deg on the FLIR).

The HMOSP can incorporate two types of FLIR: a scanning array 4 x 480 Cadmium-mercury-telluride detectors, operating in the low-wavelength band, and a 320x 240- element indium-antimony focal plane array functioning at the middle wavelengths. Monochrome or color CCD TV cameras are included, together with a laser rangefinder, designator and pointer, plus a built in auto-tracking unit that uses centroid and edge-tracking techniques.

The cockpits are NVG compatible, and both crew members have the option to use IAI's advanced NVG set built-in monocular display on which all necessary navigation and targeting information can be presented. Both cockpits feature a single multi-function display (MFD) for TV, FLIR and targeting information, in addition to a keyword and display unit for navigation and communication control. The CPG has control grips borrowed from the AH-1W, with all necessary sensor/weapons control switches and knobs; such devices when combined with the MFD, can dramatically change work practices and reduce workload.

The HMOSP has been integrated with the Shturm-V ATGM SLOC guidance system through an IR goniometer and interface unit designed by IAI Tamam engineers, which has fully replaced the original old and bulky Raduga-F sighting/ATGM optical tracking system. The unit weighs more than 200 kg (440 lb). The Raduga-F 's role for targeting and tracking both the target and missile was taken over by HMOSP, with guidance commands being produced and transmitted to the missiles through the existing equipment. Russian sources indicated in 2002 that Tamam experienced some guidance problems during Shtrum-V test firings using the HMOSP system in place of the Raduga-F. In order to solve the sensitive missile guidance problems, IAI contacted the Russian design authority for the Shtrum, the KBP company of Tula, which provided important technical assistance. The contact was arranged through the Russian arms export agency Rosvoorouzhenie predecessor of Rosoboronexport.


Close up of the front fuselage of an IAF Mi-25 before upgradation (left) and after Upgradation with the HMOSP Multi sensor turret fitted right above the Raduga-F installation (Right).

KBP help is believed to have been instrumental in solving the software/hardware, guidance and control problems associated with the HMOSP/Shtrum-V assimilation on India's upgraded Mi-24s. There are other types of ATGMs on offer for the Mission 24 system, such as Rafael's Spike-ER that has a maximum range of 7 km (3.8 nm) and employs 'fire-and-update' fibre optic guidance. However the Indian Air Force, which has ample stocks of Shtrum-V missiles, preferred to limit the guided weapons integration work on it's upgraded choppers to the relatively cheap and well-proven Russian made supersonic ATGM. The Shtrum-V is still considered to be highly effective against older generation MBT's, such as the Chinese made Type-59/69, the chief potential targets for Indian 'Hinds' in a future war with Pakistan. Integration of the Indigenous Nag ATGM is known to have been earmarked for IAF Mission 24 machines at a later stage.

Navigation improvements introduced by IAI include a GPS receiver integrated into the existing DISS-15D Doppler sensor, and a three-dimensional digital map display. Both the HMOSP and YakB-12.7 gun are slaved to the pilot's line of sight through the use of a helmet-mounted sensor; the machine gun can also be slaved to the HMOSP. IAI chaff/flare dispenser units and Elta radar/laser/missile warning systems have provided a self-defense capability. The total weight of these new systems is about 50 kg.

It was reported that the production phase of the Indian Air force mi-35 was successfully running in 2001 or 2002. During the contract implementation phase, the IAF was tight lipped about the upgrade details, and IAI has also been reluctant to disclose the details of the launch customer for its Mission 24 package. The upgraded helicopters, in overall light grey camouflage, were displayed publicly for the first time during the Aero India 2003 air show in Feb 2003 in Bangalore.

In a nutshell, the package includes:

A day-night sight with TV and FLIR.

A mission computer.

NVG-compatible cockpit with MFDs and moving-map display.

Support for helmet-mounted sights.

A countermeasures suite.

Global Positioning System (GPS) satellite navigation network receiver.

Support for the AT-6 Spiral and Rafael Spike antitank missiles.

 

[aditya_friend]

PAF COBRA

PAF has about 40 cobras in service (mostly upgraded AH-1F)

It incorporats an M143 Air Data Subsystem (ADS), a laser rangefinder and tracker, an infrared jammer mounted above the engine exhaust, and an infrared suppressing engine exhaust system. The AH-1S Modernized Cobra was redesignated as AH-1F Modernized Cobra, and could be identified by the air data sensor mounted above the right side of the canopy. The AH-1F Cobra was equipped with the Allied Signal Engines (ASE) T53-L-703 1800 shp turboshaft engine, gearbox, and transmission introduced to the Production AH-1S Cobra.

Armament consists of the three-barrel M197 20mm automatic gun mounted on the M97A4 armament subsystem. The Modernized AH-1F was equipped to fire eight TOW (Tube-Launched, Optically Tracked, Wire Command-Link Guided) anti-tank missiles, and the Hydra 70 2.75 inch rocket system. It was equipped with the M65 TOW/Cobra missile system, the M147 Rocket Management System with the M97A4 armament subsystem. The Cobra could also disperse chaff and infrared jamming flares using the M130 general purpose dispenser. Some AH-1F Cobras received the C-NITE upgrade, which allowe the gunner to designate and acquire targets during night or adverse operating conditions.

 

[A-D]

More Of Mi 25/35 Hind[AKBAR]


Origin: Russia

Type: Attack helicopter.

Accommodation: Two crew. Pilot in rear cockpit and systems operator in rear cockpit. Engineer and up to eight fully equipped troops can be carried in the main cabin.

Design Features: A conventional semi-monocoque structure of pod and boom type. Vital areas protected by with titanium armor plating. 5-blade main rotor like, with similar systems to the Mi-8. The helicopter has a retractable tricycle type landing gear with differential braking for steering.

Rotor Span: 17.30m, length - 21.5m, height - 3.90m and disc area - 253 m2

Weights: Empty - 8200 kg (18,040 lbs.)
............Gross - 12,000 kg (26,400 lbs.)
*The Mi-35 can carry an additional 750 kg (1,650 lb) of ordnance.

Avionics: VHF/UHF radio. IFF transponder, RWR and air data sensors, IR suppressor aft of rotor, chaff/flare dispensers aft of cabin, Map display, INS, high resolution LLTV, FLIR. The Mi-35 differs in having improved avionics and FLIR gear. Helmet mounted sights being incorporated.

Engine: Two 2400 shp Isotov TV3-117T. Air intakes fitted with auto synchronization systems as well as FOD deflectors. APU present. Self sealing fuel cells.

Speed: Maximum - 335 km/h (201 mph; 175 knots)
..........Max. cruising speed - 297 km/h (178 mph, 155 knots)

Service Ceiling: 4500 meters (14,760 ft.)

Range: Operational - 203 nautical miles (390 km; 234 miles)

Armament: The Mi-25 has a nose-mounted four barrelled 12.7mm gatling gun with 1400 rounds. Plus up to 4200 kg of ordnance (UV-57-32 57mm unguided rocket pods, ATGMs, AAMs, iron bombs) on six wing pylons. The Mi-35 has a three barrelled 23mm cannon in the chin turret with 250 rounds per gun and can carry up to a maximum of 4750 kg of ordnance.

Self Defence: Flare/chaff aft of cabin and IR suppressors aft of engines.

 

[Beskar]

AD:

Could you post some Pictures of the Indian MI-24/35's? I haven't come across any on the internet.

 

[A-D]

AD:

Could you post some Pictures of the Indian MI-24/35's? I haven't come across any on the internet.

Sure , why not .


A pair of Mi-35s in flight

An Mi-35 Hovering in the sunset. This aircraft is equipped with the IR suppressors on the exhausts.

A pair of Mi-35s , on a strafing exercise. Unit Unknown

 

[shehbazi2001]

PAF COBRA

PAF has about 40 cobras in service (mostly upgraded AH-1F)

Cobras are operated by Pakistan Army Aviation, not PAF. Yes in India, its the Indian Air Force that operates the Hind Gunships.

 

[shehbazi2001]

More Of Mi 25/35 Hind[AKBAR]


Origin: Russia

Type: Attack helicopter.

Accommodation: Two crew. Pilot in rear cockpit and systems operator in rear cockpit. Engineer and up to eight fully equipped troops can be carried in the main cabin.

Both pilot and system operator in the rear cockpit?

 

[Sgt Automatic]

Hinds are an amazing machine, just the fact that it can carry troops to the battle boggles mind, and yet its still quite manoverable. AH-1Z is second on the list of Top 10 Choppers in the world, (I will find the link to this and post it soon) while the Apache is first on the list, The hind is at number 7, another amazing heli called the havoc(russian) is listed 5. A european heli called the Tiger and the Chinese heli Z10 are rated 3rd and 4th respectivly.

The Cobras that Pakistan operates are not designation AH-1Z (Super Cobra), so it can't be 2nd. AH-1Z is only operated by the US NAVY. So I am not sure where PA Cobras stand.

Although Hind has a huge payload, 5 rotors and 2 engines and also the capability to carry troops, its not as Agile as the Cobra. Also since its big and bulky it has a huge RCS compared to the Cobra. Many Hinds have been shot down simply by old school stingers used by the Chechenian rebels, and Mujahideen in Afghanistan during the 80's. But than again Cobra can't carry any troops.

So commanders of each side would and should know how to use these beauties. The Cobras can be used in quick anti-tank runs, where the threat of enemy fire is large. I suppose the best part about the Hind is that it is a multirole heli. It could be used to deploy special forces units and than be on station already to provide CAS.

While on the other hand a Transport heli such as the Puma would have to be escorted by a sortie of Cobras, increasing the chance of a loss.

The Hind shows the crude Soviet Doctrine, where Infantry rides with tanks, so they made the BMP or the BTR. This is only effective in large numbers, where there doctrine states to over run the enemy in huge tactical infantry manovers.

On the other hand, the Cobra plays sync with the US doctrines where, they are used as combined forces to provide CAS and other strike missions for the special operations.

 

[notsuperstitious]

"Top 10 Choppers in the world" list

who made this list? and how come the secretive Z10 made it to the list even before its induction?

 

[aditya_friend]

Sure , why not .


A pair of Mi-35s in flight

An Mi-35 Hovering in the sunset. This aircraft is equipped with the IR suppressors on the exhausts.

A pair of Mi-35s , on a strafing exercise. Unit Unknown

the last one is the upgraded one . you can recognize it from the multi sensor turret just left to the gun turret .

 

[aditya_friend]

hey is india going to replace them . i read it somewhere .

 

[zombie:-)]

hey is india going to replace them . i read it somewhere .

hi aditya indian airforce cannot replace the hinds because there is no other chopper designed to do the role it is currently employed to do but they are floating a tender for some 26 attack choppers to serve alongside the mi-24/35 choppers and not to forget the ALH

 

[Myth_buster_1]

PA Cobras are not upgraded to the scale of IAF Hinds. PA is still waiting for the cobras to be upgraded to Z or super cobra standard. so i have to go with IAF hinds as better gunship in subcon.