IAF’s Possible Alternatives to the Rafale Deal

[sancho]

The truth remains, IAF delayed DARE upgrades (Mig27M) and integration of Litening for both jaguars and Mig 27M's which led to such situation to begin with.

That wouldn't have changed much, because they still would have needed LGBs which the Russians didn't had either and that's the point! Relying too much on Russian weapons, limited IAFs options, one reason why all remaining Russian fighters in Indian forces are meant to get Indian weapons like Astra, Sudarshan and so on. That's why IAF wanted more M2Ks, to be able to use French, Israeli or US weapons too and increase the capability even further. For example, if we would have got M2Ks in the first MRCA competition, we might had cruise missiles since years and a propper deep strike capability, which IAF lacks today, because there are not many similar options available for the Russian fighters.

MMRCA is fuelled not by delay in LCA but with your's and mine tax goldmine. I would argue IAF or at least certain sections in IAF is causing delays in LCA too.

Of course they have their shares too, but you can't deny that the key delays was caused by the failures of engine, radar developments, just like weight and drag issues. All this has nothing to do with IAF, so you hardly can blame them for this and that they didn't wanted to put their hope only on Indian industry and today we know that they were right to do so, since LCA is still years away from being ready. So MMRCA is indeed fueled by LCA's problems and the longer it takes to get LCA done, the higher the need of MMRCA. The problem is only, that everything takes so long in India and is done so complicated.

Mig 35 or the envisaged Mig 35MKI could have been exactly what Su30MKI did for IAF

Not really, because it didn't added a single advantage to IAF, that wouldn't already be existing through the MKI. High maneuverability through TVC, Russian weapons, but all that in less the capability of the MKI, while being clearly inferior in all modern capabilities to the Rafale too. Be it a low RCS, SC, passive sensors, the way better A2A and A2G weaponary...
The MKI was a game changer for IAF and so will be the Rafale, since it provides IAF with operational capabilities it lacks and which the Mig didn't offered. Not to mention the fact, that it hardly makes sense to bridge the LCA development delays, with a fighter that itself is a paperplane as well. That's where you can criticize IAF, to let fighters enter the competition or even the trials, that are available only in tech demonstrator versions. The Mig and Gripen NG should had been rejected directly and we would have saved a lot of time in the trials.

Dependability on russia as an military ally has been a boon for Indian forces...

Nobody has said anything about Russia as an ally, but about being dependent only on the capabilities of their fighters, or their weapons. When you don't have precision, or stand off strike capability, you have big problems in modern warfare and PAF is ahead of IAF today in these areas, while they catched up in the BVR too and that with alternatives from the US, China and their own. Sticking to more of the same Russian weaponary then logically, wouldn't have gained us anything.

To all Indian defence enthusiasts:
Rafale has been selected for MMRCA, there will be no change in that, the only bone in the contention will be fly away platforms produced in DB, they will increase to twice thier numbers (speculation)

My nostradamus-ish predictions for IAF (which @sancho might disagree to)

I see it pretty much the same, except of the additional MKIs, which would be a silly decision. It would make more sense to get more Rafales directly from France to speed up induction and add some early Pak Fa's from IRKUT, to have an operational advantage even before our adversaries can induct a stealth fighter.

 

[sancho]

Bro, whatever the Rafale weapons, there is an equal powerful alternative in MKI. So how there is a limitation?

Not correct, AASM is far superior to the Russian KAB series and that at stand off ranges, with the addition of SPICE to Mirage, it is likely to be integrated into Rafale too, then there is the Scalp cruise missile, where the MKI might have the Kh59, but not with similar capabilities (Brahmos will counter that to some extend). MICA IR is superior to R73 in dogfights and offer passive BVR advantage too, METEOR is a whole different level.
In A2A, CAS and deep strikes, Rafales weapon package is clearly the better choice, while the MKI offers the heavy strike option and mainly be the first choice for SEAD. However, that is the MKI, the Mig 35 can't use all the weapons the MKI uses, Kh59 is not an option, Brahmos won't either, until the mini version is developed.

nor will french allow the MKIsation of Rafale neither will let IAF put wepons from different sources other than french on rafale not even the pods

MKIsation would mean adding systems from different sources to improve the performance. The Russian fighters mainly lacked in avionics performance and that's where the French stand out, which is why we upgrade nearly all Russian fighters with French IFF, or navigation systems. Rafale will include them anyway and has one of the most advanced EW systems that currently is available. So MKIsation of Rafale is not limited by France, but by the fact that there is not much that you can improve!
France/Dassault btw has no issue with adding upgrades, see Mirage 2000 in IAF, that integrated US, Israeli and reportedly even Russian weapons or systems. The UAE M2Ks added Italian avionics and specialised weapons, but they obviously are more interested in adding French upgrade options, that are more interesting to their forces. So they might be more interested in India selecting Damocles pod, while it's clearly in Indias interest to go for the Israeli LDP.

My prediction for Rafale changes is still:

- Topsight HMS & FSO IR channel, build by Samtel
- Litening G5
- SPICE 2000 (hopefully SPICE 250 quadpacks)
- Sudarshan LGB
- Brahmos mini

 

[HongWu]

Nobody wants to do business with India because India is a poor country that tries to buy what it cannot afford.

 

[MilSpec]

Kindly provide link for the claim

I could if a journalist was in on our conversation...

1. Will French allow MKIsation of Rafale?
2. Is that missile the ramjet version of Astra?

1.Meteor is going to be a goldmine... DB wont do anything to harm the max potential of sale for meteor.

2. sabar karo

 

[Storm Force]

25 billion dollars to buy. 126 mmrca between 2014 and 2024.

In the same time and for the same price China will induct 200 more j10 at 40m each and 100 or so fifth gen j20. At 100m each. For less than our. Deal.

Pakistan wil get 150 thunders in three blocks of 50 fighters for one tenth the price. Ie 2 billion

Rafale great plane but aboslute rip off price.