IAF reject tejas...Again..

[RIP Pak LAW]

I feel sad for poor lil Teja bhai

 

[AyanRay]

Okay, so IAF has two issues none of which realtes to the technical aspect of the fighter (As mentioned in the article the issue regarding ferry range has been resolved), but then according to some experts, IAF has rejected the jet that too after placing order for 40 of them.
The issues relate to price of the aircraft- here Govt's money will be paid to a Govt held PSU, and delivery schedule which can be easily resolved by including Pvt enterprises.

Maybe they should just buy Lavi from Israel change the name to Tejas and call it a day.

Yes, and maybe name it J-10, or better option would be to rename our HAL manufactured Su30mki to J-something something and then brag about it.

 

[sathya]

If there is fixed decent number is ordered private companies can reduce prices of parts .

Hal can reduce their profits which belongs to govt anyways.

If MoD intervene with strong back up of order numbers & make IAF accept and improvise , batch by batch like JF17
It will be fine..

24 mm windshield thickness demanded by IAF , PAF has in any of their of fighters ?

 

[Rafi]

Hi @ziaulislam
I can understand your sentiments. It is perfectly right to vocalize your sentiments, however what is WRONG is not doing your homework properly. Had you actually cared to go through elaborate reports, you wouldnt have fallen for the bait. In the detailed report it is clearly mentioned that, under revised proposal HAL actually rectified the ferry range problem in tune with the IAF's requirement. What they however failed to do was the delivery time lines and price. The non compliance as of now is NOT due to ferry range but more due to timelines and price. LCA no doubt have been at the receiving end of fantastic program management of our PSUs (pun intended!), however let me assure most of its technical problems were gradually and steadfastly overcome in last 15 years! The 83 MK1A are pretty much in line with IAF's requirements. Now that MK1 facility has picked up pace, MK1A and MK2 are the fighter jets that will form the bulk of light/medium category in years to come.
PS: Also next time when you post something, do not merely resort to one or two news article, instead go through a whole host of them to formulate entire picture.
Here is the detailed report-

https://swarajyamag.com/insta/after...force-to-approach-defence-acquisition-council

and it clearly states:
Following Hindustan Aeronautics Limited’s (HAL’s) repeated non-compliance in terms of fulfilling requirements in the Tejas aircraft deal, the Indian Air Force (IAF) has decided to take up the matter with the Defence Ministry, reports ANI.

In December 2017, the IAF had issued a single vendor tender to HAL, and the latter sent back its first commercial and technical response to it in March 2018.

As per the report, there were three major shortcomings in HAL’s response.

The HAL's offer on price and other aspects was valid only for 12 months, however, the procurement procedure required it to be minimum 18 months. The delivery time offered by the HAL was thus not deemed acceptable.

As per IAF officials quoted in the report, it was also found that the aircraft range and the endurance levels were not in compliance with the requirements. Endurance level pertains to the amount of time an aircraft can be in the air.

The IAF officials thus told HAL to rectify the issues in the proposal and send a revised response. But non-compliance was also noted in HAL’s subsequent responses which were received in the last 15 days.

“The delivery schedule now proposed by HAL remains a non-compliance, for which the IAF is approaching Defence Acquisition Council,” IAF said.

Under the new responses, HAL complied with the ferry range but failed to solve the delivery schedule matter following which IAF has now reportedly decided to approach the Defence Acquisition Council.

The program is already said to have been delayed by over a year despite getting the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) nod in 2016.

The Air Force had already placed an order for 40 LCA jets and had issued tenders to the HAL for another 83 Mark 1A LCAs to replace its old fleet of MiG-27 and MiG 21 aircraft but has had to postpone their retirement given the delays in the LCA and other fighter aircraft procurement projects.


Hi!
It is inconsequential what you believe in! I have had the opportunity to interact with folks who were once the test pilots of the program and my batch mates worked on the certain aspects of the jet. There was indeed a time when it was more of technology demonstrator program and less of an actual war fighting machine. However what a lot of people fail to realize (including a lot of Indians: Please note that since India has acquired some decent buying power in last 2 decades, it is a mecca for international companies and a lot of stories are purposefully planted in media to show various indigenous programs in dim light to prepare the way for imports.) is that over past 15 years, the plane has gone through some major iterations and changes in flight control logic to expand the envelop (hint: improvement in sustained turn rates) that, those issues are not a problem anymore. In fact to your surprise, India does have some decent expertise in developing flight control laws and composites. And no flight control laws are not mere codes, they are the physics of the aircraft and how can they be effectively controlled using digital computer. It uses MRAC like most other modern digtial FBW aircrafts (something which JF-17 still lacks! I am not at all claiming that JF-17 is inferior, it is just that JF-17's controls are not as sophisticated as LCA's).

The JF17 has taken part in combat, and has conducted CAP's, which the teja still has not done, even decades after it was supposed to have been in service.

According to AI assessments the teja is vilified in the upper echelons of the IAF with senior officers grumbling about the politicians forcing an inferior product because of national pride.

AI has noted that foreign producers of aircraft have through bribes, compromised the relevant people in the IAF, to the extant that the tejas faces an uphill struggle to overcome the sceptical brass of the airforce.

In conclusion the teja will not serve in the numbers, that would make it a viable program.

 

[sathya]

The JF17 has taken part in combat, and has conducted CAP's, which the teja still has not done, even decades after it was supposed to have been in service.

According to AI assessments the teja is vilified in the upper echelons of the IAF with senior officers grumbling about the politicians forcing an inferior product because of national pride.

AI has noted that foreign producers of aircraft have through bribes, compromised the relevant people in the IAF, to the extant that the tejas faces an uphill struggle to overcome the sceptical brass of the airforce.

In conclusion the teja will not serve in the numbers, that would make it a viable program.

Whats AI assessment ?

 

[Rafi]

Whats AI assessment ?

All Inclusive (buffet)

 

[Arsalan 345]

i think they have problems with the delivery time.it might take too long.iaf is not happy.they didn't say that they don't want tejas but you can see that they aren't happy.we don't know why they aren't happy.iaf wants other jets but bjp will not allow it.yes it is like national pride.

 

[Nasr]

Who is the dad baby ...!! ??
of course its JF-17 pride of nation
View attachment 535774

I believe the appropriate wording is, "whose your daddy, india?" Considering it was these indiots who started the phenomenon during a champions trophy final, which they incidentally lost. Needless to say, we as Pakistanis shouldn't stoop to their level of thinking, if you can call it that!

 

[hussain0216]

Has anyone seen the price of this thing?

Its like paying Ferrari prices and getting a suzuki mehran

Its crazy how the indians fcuked this all up

 

[Nasr]

I believe the only thing that Pakistan should take away from this indian debacle is to learn from their mistakes. Although having said that, Pakistan Air Force has shown to be meticulous in their development of JF-17 Thunder program, despite facing enormous hurdles in the shape of sanctions, unwilling partners like the french and limitations set out by the West to hinder in the progress of the program. Whereas indians got help from many western nations, it was China who has helped us enormously and we are steadfast in our appreciation and gratitude to our brother and ally.

 

[amardeep mishra]

The JF17 has taken part in combat, and has conducted CAP's, which the teja still has not done, even decades after it was supposed to have been in service.

According to AI assessments the teja is vilified in the upper echelons of the IAF with senior officers grumbling about the politicians forcing an inferior product because of national pride.

AI has noted that foreign producers of aircraft have through bribes, compromised the relevant people in the IAF, to the extant that the tejas faces an uphill struggle to overcome the sceptical brass of the airforce.

In conclusion the teja will not serve in the numbers, that would make it a viable program.

Your assessment couldn't be further off mark. As I said, Unlike you I don't base my arguments on news paper reports. I interact with people who are concerned. You may give more credence to reports emanating from media, without even going into the details. As i said, what you believe is inconsequential.

PS - Also first learn to spell the name correctly. Is it due the general nature of education in your country?

 

[Dash]

The JF17 has taken part in combat, and has conducted CAP's, which the teja still has not done, even decades after it was supposed to have been in service.

According to AI assessments the teja is vilified in the upper echelons of the IAF with senior officers grumbling about the politicians forcing an inferior product because of national pride.

AI has noted that foreign producers of aircraft have through bribes, compromised the relevant people in the IAF, to the extant that the tejas faces an uphill struggle to overcome the sceptical brass of the airforce.

In conclusion the teja will not serve in the numbers, that would make it a viable program.

Amardeep has already said everything. I will add another point that IAF has a different working style than most AFs. They always get the best out of everything. A mere example is, The french Aérospatiale Alouette II
that the IAF uses, has service ceiling of 2,300 m (7,545 ft). But it flies much higher than that in the Himalayas!! how? I wont tell you but thats IAF for you. They always get the best bang for the buck.

 

[MimophantSlayer]

The JF17 has taken part in combat, and has conducted CAP's, which the teja still has not done, even decades after it was supposed to have been in service.

It has been only 2 years since Tejas was inducted. Get your facts straight.
Tejas is an interceptor, IAF unlike PAF won't generally use light fighters for CAP missions, IAF uses air superiority fighters like the Su-30MKIs.

Clearly JFT is such a great fighter, since PAF didn't have the gall to even fly it in the same airshow as the Tejas.

According to AI assessments the teja is vilified in the upper echelons of the IAF with senior officers grumbling about the politicians forcing an inferior product because of national pride.

Nope.
https://salute.co.in/military-modernisation-indian-air-force/

AI has noted that foreign producers of aircraft have through bribes, compromised the relevant people in the IAF, to the extant that the tejas faces an uphill struggle to overcome the sceptical brass of the airforce.

In conclusion the teja will not serve in the numbers, that would make it a viable program.

Wrong.
https://quwa.org/2018/03/20/indian-air-force-commits-to-procure-a-total-of-324-hal-tejas-fighters/

I believe the only thing that Pakistan should take away from this indian debacle is to learn from their mistakes. Although having said that, Pakistan Air Force has shown to be meticulous in their development of JF-17 Thunder program, despite facing enormous hurdles in the shape of sanctions, unwilling partners like the french and limitations set out by the West to hinder in the progress of the program. Whereas indians got help from many western nations, it was China who has helped us enormously and we are steadfast in our appreciation and gratitude to our brother and ally.

More like China did most if not all of the work in the JF-17.
I'm sorry but pakistan can't learn anything from Tejas' R&D process as pakistan has never participated in something so comprehensive as a complete fighter aircraft development.

Forget Tejas for a while, pakistan doesn't even have as much indigenous content in the JF-17 as we have on our Su-30MKIs.

Apart from the Chinese influence in the JF-17, its US and Russian contributions are also well known; so JF-17 too had a lot of foreign input, more so than pakistanis usually proclaim.

As for sanctions, after our penultimate nuke tests our scientists were barred from entering the facilities of Lockheed Martin, and all the work done on the Tejas, documents, software and equipments were withheld.
Yet they came back to India and made new facilities for testing the same and we still developed the Tejas and now it is inducted.
JF-17 otoh never suffered a problem of such magnitude.

 

[Han Patriot]

It has been only 2 years since Tejas was inducted. Get your facts straight.
Tejas is an interceptor, IAF unlike PAF won't generally use light fighters for CAP missions, IAF uses air superiority fighters like the Su-30MKIs.

Clearly JFT is such a great fighter, since PAF didn't have the gall to even fly it in the same airshow as the Tejas.



Nope.
https://salute.co.in/military-modernisation-indian-air-force/



Wrong.
https://quwa.org/2018/03/20/indian-air-force-commits-to-procure-a-total-of-324-hal-tejas-fighters/



More like China did most if not all of the work in the JF-17.
I'm sorry but pakistan can't learn anything from Tejas' R&D process as pakistan has never participated in something so comprehensive as a complete fighter aircraft development.

Forget Tejas for a while, pakistan doesn't even have as much indigenous content in the JF-17 as we have on our Su-30MKIs.

Apart from the Chinese influence in the JF-17, its US and Russian contributions are also well known; so JF-17 too had a lot of foreign input, more so than pakistanis usually proclaim.

As for sanctions, after our penultimate nuke tests our scientists were barred from entering the facilities of Lockheed Martin, and all the work done on the Tejas, documents, software and equipments were withheld.
Yet they came back to India and made new facilities for testing the same and we still developed the Tejas and now it is inducted.
JF-17 otoh never suffered a problem of such magnitude.

Wwhy didn't India have the gall to come to Zhuhai and fly next to J10?

 

[ziaulislam]

Wwhy didn't India have the gall to come to Zhuhai and fly next to J10?

Clearly even the f22 is inferior to thunder as it didnt fly in zhuhai...also tejas is superior to j20 and f35 as they were not in Bahrain air show