IAF Plane crashes near jamnagar in Gujarat

[帅的一匹]

kid，Do you know that Accidents is not all mean crashed.
F-16 461 Accidents (crash + Mishap)
Lots of the 461 F-16s are flying in sky.
But your 1024 all wear crashed.
USA own 2244 F-16s and 700+ F15 ,how much about all IAF ?

Said CAC's target is able to produce a J10 everyday in the future. 

Said CAC's target is able to produce one J10 a day in the future.

 

[帅的一匹]

This is really awesome

 

[duhastmish]

As expected, you did not provide any link to substantiate your claim, instead you ask me for details. But I'm happy to oblige. Before I do so, let us understand and agre that you cannot show a link for that stupid claim, that "India is not spending and investing much on training and exercises it's a known fact to most IAF professionals."

Now, to your demand for details about any other country which has lost more aircrafts during peacetime. Umm...off the top of my head...the United States of America. I'll provide you with details step by step, and as I walk you through this exercise, I hope you will learn to appreciate our forces and understand the fact that aircraft losses happen even to the best, and at no better rates.

For your reference, the total number of aircrafts crashed by IAF is 1024. Keep this figure in mind throughout this exercise. Here is a complete list:

Warbirds of India - [Air Crash / Attrition Listings of the Indian Air Forces]

Now. Let me make things interesting for you. The total number of aircraft crashes by the IAF since 1947 is 1024, and the total number of crahes of F-16s alone by the USAF alone from 1975 is 461! Here is a complete list:

F-16 Accidents & Mishaps for the United States Air Force :: F-16.net

So the number of F-16s crashed by the USAF is almost half that of all IAF crashes since independence, despite the fact that the F-16 is a much safer bird to fly than most IAF birds, and the ones in the USAF were all relatively new, unlike the tottering, ancient migs that poor IAF pilots fly everyday.

And that is just one aircraft type. Coming to the F-15s, the total number crashed by the USAF is 146. This is a twin engined bird, one of the best in the world, much more forgiving and easier to fly than mig-21s. Here is a complete list:

F-15

Now go ahead and dig up the info of all the other aircrafts the USAF flies currently, using those resources linked. Add them up, and the tally will already surpass the total IAF crashes.

Now start counting the crashes of the previously in service aircrafts, like F-86 and F-104s and F-111s and so on, and your final tally will be several times more. (The list for

Now add the crashes of the USN and USMC (since you asked for country, and not air force alone...add indian navy to the other side of the equation for a negligible effect.) They are also bigger than most air forces in the world.

You will see that USA has lost several times more planes than India has.

Now check Russia and china...wait you can't, because they (USSR then and china now) doesn't make such records public. But it stands to reason that they too would have lost more than India, since they are both much larger than the IAF, and you cannot argue that they are better trained than the americans.Try britain. Try any major air force as I said before.

After going through these stats, after learning that the USAF (and even the USN and USMC) have crashed far more planes than IAF, and bearing in mind that they get to fly top notch fighters straight from the production line, while our pilots fly inherently dangerous aircrafts like mig-21 for half a century, stop spreading the canard around that the IAF is undertrained, or that the accident rates are "shocking". It is not. For any air force that flies so many aircrafts and so many sorties, this rate is normal. And if the rate of mig-21 crashes is kept aside, the safety rates are even more impressive.

Oh smartarse do u know how many f16 us owns or can u make a average out of it that will just prove my point right I rest my case on your analysis. Btw if you know a zilch about flying hours you will be shocked to relise the number of birds crashing

 

[janon]

Oh smartarse do u know how many f16 us owns or can u make a average out of it that will just prove my point right I rest my case on your analysis. Btw if you know a zilch about flying hours you will be shocked to relise the number of birds crashing

LOL. That was precisely my point, which I hoped you would learn in the course of this exchange. If you look at the size of the IAF (the fourth or so largest in the world), and the number of sorties they fly (each aircraft flies 180-250 hours per year on avge), then the accident rates as a proportion is not shocking, nothing beyind what is expected. Glad you finally learnt to look at the whole picture, instead of naively asking whether any other air force has more crashes. Your question was to name another country which has more crashes than India in peacetime. You did not ask as a percentage of total fleet or TTFT. You got the answer. Now you are coming round to the understanding that what really matters is crash rate in proportion to size of fleet and operations. Congratulation - to me, for walking you through into sense.

Now look at any other air force, their size, number and hours they fly, number of crashes they have, and THEN see if crash rates are "shockingly high" in the IAF, which is what you claimed initially.

And since I'm the only one bringing facts and figures into the discusion each time, while you glibly made half-assed remarks, I see no point in contniuing this exchange, unless you provide some backing to your claims of shocking rates. Heck, I'm still waiting for you to substantiate your assertion that all IAF professionals agree that India doesn't invest enough in training. 

kid，Do you know that Accidents is not all mean crashed.
F-16 461 Accidents (crash + Mishap)
Lots of the 461 F-16s are flying in sky.
But your 1024 all wear crashed.
USA own 2244 F-16s and 700+ F15 ,how much about all IAF ?

Yes i know that the USAF is much larger. That was precisely my point, that one has to look at the size of the fleet and TTFT when comparing accident rates. Obviously it ws not intended to mean that the USAF is several times worse than IAF; You would have understood this if you had bothered to look at the context of my posts as responses to another member, that I was trying to make him see that point, which is why I picked the best air force in the world to compare absolute numbers with.

 

[duhastmish]

You have got no idea us operates f16 or f22 or b2 etc. compare the total number divided by crash and do the same for India.
Next thing you must do is calculate flying hour and training because USA is having a war constantly and fly in different conditions compare that to India.

Now you must realise how many twin sitter India got and you have spent two pilots although I think the idea is preposteroussince India don't need to cover so much area.

Now coming to your point about training u live in babu land where if u utter a single word against establishment on record you are kicked out. Talk to somebody kiddo. Don't be analyst sitting on your armchair.

 

[janon]

You have got no idea us operates f16 or f22 or b2 etc. compare the total number divided by crash and do the same for India.
Next thing you must do is calculate flying hour and training because USA is having a war constantly and fly in different conditions compare that to India.

Now you must realise how many twin sitter India got and you have spent two pilots although I think the idea is preposteroussince India don't need to cover so much area.

Now coming to your point about training u live in babu land where if u utter a single word against establishment on record you are kicked out. Talk to somebody kiddo. Don't be analyst sitting on your armchair.

I have a lot more idea that you do. However, instead of going on asking me to come up with figures, how about you do that for a change? After all, the assertion is yours, and the burden of proof is on you. You can't expect me to go hunting for figures each time while you keep making snide remarks.

Yes I know that the US operates other aircraft types, which I made clear in my post. If you take those crashes into account, the rates will only look worse, because those fleets are much smaller. I have already done much more than myy share in bringing facts and figures here. Can you do the same? So far I have only gotten assertions from you, without backing any of them up.

And dispense with the patronizing remarks, because your performance on the thread so far gives you no right to have that attitude. Calling me an armchair warrior as if you are anything more than that. And by the way at least I provided facts and figures for everything I said, while all you have are prsonal remarks.

I live in babuland? Where would that be? India? Or USA? Because these are the only two countries I live in, and neither of them kink me out for anything. You might want to argue on the basis of facts, instead of ad hominems about my personal life - because for one thing, you don't know anything about it anyway.

I did not get the relevance of the "twin sitter" remark, and at this point it seems like you are grasping at straws. Sometimes it is much easier to admit a mistake in your assertions than do this comedy of mental gymnastics. By "twin sitter" I hope you don't mean a baby sitter for twins - which would have the same relevance here as twin SEATERS have with area of coverage.

Please substantite your claims, or desist from making them.