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IAF Pilots: Among the best

India pilots are surely world class. What looks like you have been hired to tell the world IAF is the best by IAF. Come on wake up and smell the air.

Sir murdak i am extremely sorry but i can not understand what you are trying to say here.

Are you trying to say that because a pakistani ex pilot say that IAF is not world class we listen to him. and what rest of the world is just B.S????

Or you trying to say IAF rated very high in world defence scenario is not world class ???? Please watch what you say there are no ground for it. If you have any prove it. No one liners please from such a senior member.

And if you belive in that - what makes you think current crop of Pakistani pilots are that better to Indian counter parts ?? You havent seen them in war action yet.

p.s. Times they are changing. The competition with number of educated people fighting for better opportunity have changed things alot. :cheers:
 
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Its funny how some indian and pakistani -guys behave here. lol

Indian side: we should go for war.

Pakistan side: Oye chotte!! nuclear chak ke la !!!!
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Its a understandable fact that- in past pakistani belived in quality while indian side followed russian formula of quantity.

Now - pakistani fighters as much i got to know- have better training module. but Now the modern fighters are more depandent on - Plane rather than pilots. Which makes its even steven.

But i still doubt in such a war if it even come to - pilot capability of two nation it will a - war of nerves. more than technique.

You are wrong again by saying modern fighters are dependent. Sunny Boy it will always be the man not the machine, I have flown one of the best fighter in the world with all the tech in them if the pilot lacks the experience what will Tech do, Zip nothing by the time he figures out he is gone. Its hard to explain for me when a dog fight starts its just matter of sec and the game is over.
 
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You are wrong again by saying modern fighters are dependent. Sunny Boy it will always be the man not the machine, I have flown one of the best fighter in the world with all the tech in them if the pilot lacks the experience what will Tech do, Zip nothing by the time he figures out he is gone. Its hard to explain for me when a dog fight starts its just matter of sec and the game is over.

Sir i heard it coming from - USAF pilots that - now a days it nor much of MAN MORE THAN MACHINE. I recall a ex usaf pilot telling me, how he enjoyed his days back tham it was more about the pilot. not in most fighters- ofcourse you have to be a good pilot. but the machine palys a majouyr role with bvr, fly by wire aesa and stealth technology.

In a advance air force such as indian and pakistani, A dog fight will be rare in this modern scenario. most kills will be based on aviation technology.
please - dont mind - if i said something ignorent here - i know your qualification so agree you know way more than me.
i love to learn from members liek you.

Respect. :cheers:
 
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Koi hal nahi

Please check the threads and you will find this topic so don't waist space.
We all know how good you are in Cope India USAF had to play according to IAF rules. We all get to see the real IAF in Red Flag, Yeah they are the best thats why they kept shooting there own planes.:lol:
Yes no doubt in 65, 71 your pilots were outstanding but today
no way.:cheers:

I think you as a Military Professional must also know that IAF was not using their radars in Red Flag. So a plane without a radar is like a man without eyes. How could they have differentiated. Is it quite hard to understand such an easy thing? Or is it easy to mock others' credentials based on something biased?

No, No need to prove your selves we already how good your pilots are Most of your fleet is grounded, Most of your pilots are on desk jobs and the ones who are flying well we all know there story.

Please kindly tell us how it is known that IAF fleet is grounded. Only some planes were grounded last month due to technical glitch. Don't IAF pilots score flying-hours? Is it only the PAF with pilots with flying-hours? Also kindly tell us about the desk jobs of IAF pilots.

With respect surely.
 
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Sir murdak i am extremely sorry but i can not understand what you are trying to say here.

Are you trying to say that because a pakistani ex pilot say that IAF is not world class we listen to him. and what rest of the world is just B.S????

Or you trying to say IAF rated very high in world defence scenario is not world class ???? Please watch what you say there are no ground for it. If you have any prove it. No one liners please from such a senior member.

And if you belive in that - what makes you think current crop of Pakistani pilots are that better to Indian counter parts ?? You havent seen them in war action yet.

p.s. Times they are changing. The competition with number of educated people fighting for better opportunity have changed things alot. :cheers:

ok looks like I well be up all night and you all evening:lol:,
This Ex-pilot who shot 2 IAF fighter is saying that the standard of flying was excellent during the 60s and 70s, Now because of high tec fighters they have lost their skill which they had.
 
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India pilots are surely world class. What do you work for the IAF PR DEPT.
Don't explain me about IAF for 36 years I have seen IAF through a Pipper so I know what there condition is as of now.

Mr Muradk sir,

i know if we say any thing against your shaan other Pakistani members will come and start writing bashing post "how u dare to say any thing agaist Muradk Sir , he used to be an ace pilot and did this and did that etc etc"
BUT your post suggest as if you were sitting on your terrace and watching IAF , whether they are doing desk jobs or flying, with a binoculars! and that too since last 36 years.

I need a break :smokin:
 
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Mr Muradk sir,

i know if we say any thing against your shaan other Pakistani members will come and start writing bashing post "how u dare to say any thing agaist Muradk Sir , he used to be an ace pilot and did this and did that etc etc"
BUT your post suggest as if you were sitting on your terrace and watching IAF , whether they are doing desk jobs or flying, with a binoculars! and that too since last 36 years.

I need a break :smokin:

But I haven't said anything rude to the member we are discussing on a issue simple but I respect what you said , I was talking about an article which was written by a few IAF fighter pilots about why they want to leave and the conditions of the Force, I am not comparing PAF with IAF at all and if I have mentioned 65, 71 that is full of praises that your pilots were world class.
 
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Mr Muradk sir,

i know if we say any thing against your shaan other Pakistani members will come and start writing bashing post "how u dare to say any thing agaist Muradk Sir , he used to be an ace pilot and did this and did that etc etc"
BUT your post suggest as if you were sitting on your terrace and watching IAF , whether they are doing desk jobs or flying, with a binoculars! and that too since last 36 years.

I need a break :smokin:

I wounder do you have multiple IDs how would you know with only so many threads that the members will come on too you.
 
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I wounder do you have multiple IDs how would you know with only so many threads that the members will come on too you.

Oh sir that's not a mammoth task. there are many post where ppl debate with u on some specific topics and moderators, super moderators,think tanks and even Neo come to your rescue....

PDF webmasters can find out whether i have multiple id's or not. :welcome:
 
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Oh sir that's not a mammoth task. there are many post where ppl debate with u on some specific topics and moderators, super moderators,think tanks and even Neo come to your rescue....

PDF webmasters can find out whether i have multiple id's or not. :welcome:
Well obviousley he went to war with Indian Pilots and he is not a armchair Pilot or General like us and know much more how good IAF or PAF is.
 
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But I haven't said anything rude to the member we are discussing on a issue simple but I respect what you said , I was talking about an article which was written by a few IAF fighter pilots about why they want to leave and the conditions of the Force, I am not comparing PAF with IAF at all and if I have mentioned 65, 71 that is full of praises that your pilots were world class.

Dear sir, with all due respect your analysis of the present state of IAF seems to be on the basis of a few articles that you have read. However, you forget that there could be members in the forum who are actually in touch with a lot of IAF pilots.

Certainly the conditions in the IAF are not as rosy as desirable but that is on a comparative basis. India is a booming economy and as a result of this boom the civil aviation sector too has seen a major boom. This boom was so unprecedented that, the number of civilian aircrafts rose phenomenally and overtook the rate at which civilian pilots were produced in the country. As a result, major airlines were faced with an acute shortage of pilots. At this stage these airlines started poaching IAF pilots, offering them remuneration almost ten times higher than what they would get in IAF for one tenth the amount of work they would have to do in the IAF. This became trend as the airlines realized that not only did they get quality, experienced pilots, but they had to spend much less on their training.

This was the trend some three four years back. But, since then due to the phenomenal increase in the defence budget, this trend has been reversed now. The remuneration for IAF pilots is on par with the private airlines'. Also, even during this tough phase, the IAF wasn't fluttered much due to the huge talent pool available to them. The rejection rate did lower during that phase, but was still high enough to ensure that only quality pilots entered IAF.
 
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Oh sir that's not a mammoth task. there are many post where ppl debate with u on some specific topics and moderators, super moderators,think tanks and even Neo come to your rescue....

PDF webmasters can find out whether i have multiple id's or not. :welcome:


CeaseFire:lol::lol: I am to old to wake up all night :lol:
Yar that was a joke by the way; I thank you both for being very humble with this old man and it will be my honor if you join me as my friends. I urge people to open up and discuss topics on every issue Race, Religion, Armed Forces, any topic as long the members are in their respective boundaries and respect each others we will gain a lot form each other.
Why I said 71 pilots were good ,
71 war we were 6 F-86 fully loaded at 15000ft and we saw 2 Gnats at 18000ft , Arif said Oh **** Gnats our biggest problem was how to Jetis fuel tanks and bombs because Pak Army was under us so we saw a opening it was 10 miles west of us, We turned and by the time we unloaded our fuel tanks and bombs the Gnats started firing let me tell you those 2 Gnats pilots were ( Sher ka bachas ) and they played hell into us luck was not on there side our sheer number took both of them down. The biggest problem with Gnats were they were freeking small and fast Gnats would do circles around the saber and get him. One thing with the IAF pilots lacked was energy Manuv which we learned from the American's and that gave us a upper hand, but I tell you when there was a Gnat in the air a lot of pilots used to get nervous the Gnat was good and the pilots were out standing.
 
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CeaseFire:lol::lol: I am to old to wake up all night :lol:
Yar that was a joke by the way; I thank you both for being very humble with this old man and it will be my honor if you join me as my friends. I urge people to open up and discuss topics on every issue Race, Religion, Armed Forces, any topic as long the members are in their respective boundaries and respect each others we will gain a lot form each other.
Why I said 71 pilots were good ,
71 war we were 6 F-86 fully loaded at 15000ft and we saw 2 Gnats at 18000ft , Arif said Oh **** Gnats our biggest problem was how to Jetis fuel tanks and bombs because Pak Army was under us so we saw a opening it was 10 miles west of us, We turned and by the time we unloaded our fuel tanks and bombs the Gnats started firing let me tell you those 2 Gnats pilots were ( Sher ka bachas ) and they played hell into us luck was not on there side our sheer number took both of them down. The biggest problem with Gnats were they were freeking small and fast Gnats would do circles around the saber and get him. One thing with the IAF pilots lacked was energy Manuv which we learned from the American's and that gave us a upper hand, but I tell you when there was a Gnat in the air a lot of pilots used to get nervous the Gnat was good and the pilots were out standing.

sir, you started a thread about various maneuvers in ariel combat but it was not went far. one particular post about energy conservation was really awesome. will you please complete the thread so we will be able to learn more.
 
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Great story sir,

These are the stories which makes - people like you stand apart from the regular crowd. I was told by some great fighter that: first rule of being in a mission is to- respect your opponent. Both side of pilots are doing their duties. So non of them is short on ethics.
Country's politics runs on right or wrong - good or evil, Their soldiers only do their duties, to them there is nothing wrong or right. that's why i respect soldier from other side of wall.
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i like your humbleness and wisdom.
But then again you are past that age of stupidness or foolishness , you have entered in to the realm of wisdom. Thats why they say respect your elder they talk less B.S- BECAUSE Been there done that- lol cheers
 
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Dear Muradk Sahib, you might like this!


WHEN the Mirage 2000 was inducted into the Indian Air Force (IAF) in 1984, watching wistfully was Air Marshal Denzil Keelor, then chief of the air base that remains the home to this French-designed multi-role aircraft.
"Oh, that was another time altogether," he remarked when I reminded him of his exploits in the tiny British-built Gnats. He had downed the much-superior American Sabres in dogfights during the war with Pakistan in 1965.

Even the Mirage seems like history. Last week, IAF inducted its first air-borne early warning system (Awacs), mounted on an Ilyushin-76. However, this Russian-built giant of a transporter is also on its way out.

In a US$1.06 billion (RM3.7 billion) defence deal with the United States, India is to acquire six C-130J Super Hercules. Tenders have also been floated for 22 combat and 15 heavy lift helicopters with US, European and Russian manufacturers.

IAF is modernising in a big way. It is possible to get zapped with its flying machines, their technical details, combating skills and their nationalities. But it would help if one followed Arjan Singh, the IAF's pole star who has seen and done it all in close combat in his heyday, and is now the benign old patriarch.
Arjan is India's only living pre-independence IAF marshal, as two soldiers with a hoary past, Field Marshals K.M. Cariappa and Sam Manekshaw, are no more.

Arjan recently turned 91. The most fitting tribute to him has come in the form of The Icon, an in-depth biography penned by retired air commodore Jasjit Singh.

This is the story of one man who has, literally and figuratively, been the IAF's icon for decades. But it is also the history of IAF, both the fighting force and the family.

Arjan joined this family in his teens when World War 2 started. He was 24 when he commanded the No 1 Squadron in 1944, which flew the Hurricane fighters in defence of Imphal, the easternmost Indian city bordering Myanmar.

For his outstanding performance in helping to hold the Japanese at bay, Lord Mountbatten, the Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces' Southeast Asian Command, personally awarded Arjan the Distinguished Flying Cross, in an unprecedented gesture, right on the battlefield.

It has not been a smooth flight for the IAF. The army got precedence and preference, and the navy long remained the "silent service".

During the 1962 Sino-Indian conflict, when the army took the drubbing, the IAF was denied an air combat role in the belief that this would be escalatory and provoke Chinese retaliation by interdicting Indian air supply and bombing Kolkatta and other eastern cities.

In the panic and confusion then, the option of air interdiction of Chinese supply lines in Tibet was simply not considered.

For IAF and Arjan, the testing time came in September 1965, when the subcontinent was plunged into war. Pakistan launched its Operation Grand Slam, in which an armoured thrust targeted the vital town of Akhnur. Arjan was summoned to the defence minister's office with a request for air support. He replied: "In an hour."

And the IAF struck back at the Pakistani offensive within the hour.

The IAF was in action over Chhamb, too, within 30 minutes, and by last light had flown as many as 26 sorties. Pakistan's armoured column and massed infantry suffered considerable attrition and its offensive was blunted.

Though mistakes were made and planning could have been better, in all fairness it must be said that the credit for thwarting Ayub Khan's grandiose plan to capture Kashmir is shared by the Indian army and the IAF -- and Arjan Singh.

Despite enormous difficulties, shortages and internal challenges, the IAF clearly dominated the Pakistan Air Force (PAF), stopping the armoured offensive in its tracks while providing nearly all the required direct air support to the army.

Both India and Pakistan claimed overall victory in 1965. India had not allowed access to the foreign media, which Pakistan did and secured great advantage. India was to correct this mistake in the 1971 Bangladesh War.

Pakistan claimed it won the air war in 1965. Now, speaking through Arjan, the IAF rebuts this with facts and figures to show that the IAF outperformed the PAF in vital parameters of air warfare.

The "Icon" unambiguously debunks the myths of Pakistani superiority, promoted by their propaganda and India's own negligence of history and empirical evidence. And it does so on the basis of hard facts, a large number of them brought to light for the first time.

The IAF shot down three Pakistani fighters for the loss of one of their own, besides providing full support to the army. Besides the Gnat (which came to be called "Sabre Killer"), Hunters and Mysteres also shot down a large number of PAF Sabres and Starfighters in air combat.

The IAF went further ahead in 1971, totally dominating the South Asian sky. It bombed not only tank formations on the ground, but also destroyed the Karachi and Chittagong harbours. Its precision rocketing of the arch at the governor's residence in Dhaka signalled the end of the war.

Noted analyst B.G. Verghese has emphasised the political leadership's failure to recognise the full combat and interdiction role of the IAF. It is also the failure of higher defence management.

Have the lessons been learnt from past mistakes? Yes and no, Verghese observes. A beginning has been made with integrated defence planning, but joint defence management is still debated by Indian defence planners with no common ground.

No matter who won or lost in earlier wars, the ground reality on the sea and in the sky in South Asia remains unchanged. India and Pakistan came close to a war just seven months ago, after the Mumbai terror attacks. The IAF readied its MiG-29s and the PAF deployed 400 aircraft, fearing that India would take a punitive action. Fortunately, India did not. But that does not change the threat perceptions.

A dynamic warrior-leader, Arjan has truly earned his marshal's baton. Y.B. Chavan, defence minister during the 1965 war, recorded: "When he is asked to go ahead on a new task, he even walks as a dancing bird. A real fighting Sikh. And yet how soft and gentle."

http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Monday/Columns/2576420/Article/index_html
 
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