IAF moves to build Swiss trainer jets at home as number of new pilots drops

[shree835]

Concenred over dip in the intake of pilots, a worried Indian Air Force (IAF) now wants to produce Swiss Pilatus PC- 7 basic trainers at its own facilities.
Sources said it was quite a paradox that the IAF was buying more aircraft and training fewer pilots.
The IAF, which remains skeptical about homegrown attempts to develop a new trainer aircraft, needs to train around 250 cadets in every course to meet the shortfall of around 472 pilots.

The strength of last basic flying course at the IAF academy in Hyderabad was only 87. The course starting January would train a little over 100 cadets.
There has been a constant decline in the recruitment of IAF pilots since 2009, when the HPT- 32 trainer at the academy was grounded after it was rendered unsafe for flying.
The entire flying training course was left in the lurch following the grounding of HPT-32 trainers. The IAF shifted to an interim, though risky, measure of making rookies learn their first flying skills on complex jets instead of basic aircraft.
The arrangement fraught with danger continued until the IAF started receiving Swiss PC-7 mark II trainers last year.

Seventy five of these trainers were bought for over Rs 3,000 crore and the IAF academy has already received around 30, in which young cadets have started their lessons.
The IAF needs 106 more trainers to smoothly run its pilot training programme. The defence ministry had allowed aircraft-maker Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) to develop a new basic trainer, but IAF sees it as a futile exercise and had requested the government to go for 106 more Swiss aircraft instead.
With HAL unable to make significant progress in the development of new aircraft, nor is it willing to produce PC-7s, the IAF has now proposed to make the Swiss aircraft on its own.
Sources said IAF's base repair depot-5 in Sulur can be entrusted with the task of producing Pilatus under licence.
A team of the Swiss aircraft-maker has already inspected the facility and is confident that it will be able to produce the aircraft.
The cost of producing the aircraft at Sulur will be comparable with the price paid for the 75 aircraft purchased earlier.
The South African Air Force is already producing Pilatus trainer on its own and the IAF's facility is considered to be even better, said sources.
The production can start as early as next year by when all the 75 PC 7 trainers would have been delivered.
The requirement of additional 106 can be met by producing the aircraft at Sulur. As per the proposal, first 10 aircraft in the new lot of 106 can be bought directly off the shelf, 28 in semi knocked down kits and 68 in completely knocked down kits.
The move is aimed at ending IAF's training woes. The IAF has already conveyed to the defence ministry that it would not be prudent to have two different trainers in the academy.
The HAL is determined to go ahead with its programme to build HTT-40 trainer expressing confidence that it would be a cheaper option for the IAF in the long run.
The HAL says IAF will not be dependent on erratic foreign vendors and can rely on support from the local manufacturers at its own convenience.
IAF's training problems had come up at a recent meeting of parliamentary panel which has sought its early resolution. The panel will review functioning of HAL during its next meeting on January 24.

IAF moves to build Swiss trainer jets at home as number of new pilots drops | Mail Online

 

[Raje amar]

WTF.... why IAF need to produce or assemble a plane. The BRD is for maintenance and not manufacturing.
GOI must not allow this.
Some body has been paid a big kickback by the Swiss....

 

[janon]

WTF.... why IAF need to produce or assemble a plane. The BRD is for maintenance and not manufacturing.
GOI must not allow this.
Some body has been paid a big kickback by the Swiss....

If HAL refuses to assemble Pilatus, what can the IAF do?

 

[Srinivas]

India needs lots of pilots and India need them in a short time, HAL and ADA are busy with many projects in hand.

 

[Manindra]

If HAL refuses to assemble Pilatus, what can the IAF do?

I think IAF should approach NAL or Mahindra Aerospace to create competitor for HAL.

 

[thesolar65]

OK, My opinion is that IAF may give the base for production, but private companies should produce it as setting up facility takes longer time and Private company will hasten the production.

 

[janon]

I think IAF should approach NAL or Mahindra Aerospace to create competitor for HAL.

Neither of them can make pilatus, which is a foreign aircraft that has already been procured. They are not assemblers either. As of now, if HAL refuses to assemble the remaining PC-7s for the IAF, the only choice that IAF has is either to directly procure from Switzerland, or assemble them in their depots. The latter option would retain some of the money within the country.

 

[Manindra]

Neither of them can make pilatus, which is a foreign aircraft that has already been procured. They are not assemblers either. As of now, if HAL refuses to assemble the remaining PC-7s for the IAF, the only choice that IAF has is either to directly procure from Switzerland, or assemble them in their depots. The latter option would retain some of the money within the country.

Aerostructures & Aircraft Manufacturing - Mahindra Aerospace
Mahindra Aerospace - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They are more efficient than BRD & absorb technology.

 

[SwAggeR]

Kickbacks adversely affect HAL and DRDO. Like politicians Indian forces too are corrupt as evident from scam after scam.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

someone sack HAl's boss

 

[MehrotraPrince]

If HAL refuses to assemble Pilatus, what can the IAF do?

And by the way whats the point in engaging uncalled resources when cost of imported and assembled will be same with no knowledge gain? What will IAF or nation gain from it..........big EGO .

IAF should learn something from Navy who always plan for future, and compare the indigenous components and platforms in their respective branches...........with same DRDO......with same HAL........with same private industries..........with same people.

 

[janon]

And by the way whats the point in engaging uncalled resources when cost of imported and assembled will be same with no knowledge gain? What will IAF or nation gain from it..........big EGO .

IAF should learn something from Navy who always plan for future, and compare the indigenous components and platforms in their respective branches...........with same DRDO......with same HAL........with same private industries..........with same people.

If that bit is true, then all the more reason to go for assembling here. Because at least the money spent on assembly can be retained in India. For a simple aircraft like this one, I am assuming that assembling will cost a bulk of total cost (labour charges). Let's pay Indian workers, instead of Swiss ones. Not to mention, the benefit of having a larger pool of trained workers. Knowledge is not only at engineering level, technicians and workers can also gain expertise, which can later be used for other platforms.

Now if the Indian assembled units end up more expensive, that's a different issue.

 

[MehrotraPrince]

If that bit is true, then all the more reason to go for assembling here. Because at least the money spent on assembly can be retained in India. For a simple aircraft like this one, I am assuming that assembling will cost a bulk of total cost (labour charges). Let's pay Indian workers, instead of Swiss ones. Not to mention, the benefit of having a larger pool of trained workers. Knowledge is not only at engineering level, technicians and workers can also gain expertise, which can later be used for other platforms.

Now if the Indian assembled units end up more expensive, that's a different issue.

Then firstly a team should submit detailed report about planning and assembly cost with respect to cost of import, special clause should also be made for imposing fine if assembling cost exceeds import cost. Also invite private players if they are willing, lets create some competition for HAL.

 

[janon]

Then firstly a team should submit detailed report about planning and assembly cost with respect to cost of import, special clause should also be made for imposing fine if assembling cost exceeds import cost. Also invite private players if they are willing, lets create some competition for HAL.

Private players cannot be expected to build the requisite infra for such a small value project. On the other hand, the infra already exists at IAF's base depots - they have performed overhauls of mig-21s, 23s and 29s, not to mention various helicopters. so tooling and other infra exists already. And since this aircraft will be in service, they will anyway need to have the infra for overhaul and maintainance. On the other hand, private players will have to create infra and trained manpower and tools and jigs, all for assembling these low cost aircrafts - not a viable proposition for them. If it was manufacture, then maybe.

IMO, HAL should start looking at moving up the value chain. They have been assembling aircrafts for a long time. Now with Rafales and LCAs, they would be manufacturing a lot of aircrafts every year, and it is only reasonable that the lowest tier of work should be performed by the IAF itself. Private industry needs to be nurtured, but they will not be interested in this particular effort. Getting them to manufacture the NAL Saras or the avro replacement would be a good start. Maybe even outsource some of the manufacture of Rafales and LCAs, if it is financially viable and desirable.

 

[MehrotraPrince]

Private players cannot be expected to build the requisite infra for such a small value project. On the other hand, the infra already exists at IAF's base depots - they have performed overhauls of mig-21s, 23s and 29s, not to mention various helicopters. so tooling and other infra exists already. And since this aircraft will be in service, they will anyway need to have the infra for overhaul and maintainance. On the other hand, private players will have to create infra and trained manpower and tools and jigs, all for assembling these low cost aircrafts - not a viable proposition for them. If it was manufacture, then maybe.

IMO, HAL should start looking at moving up the value chain. They have been assembling aircrafts for a long time. Now with Rafales and LCAs, they would be manufacturing a lot of aircrafts every year, and it is only reasonable that the lowest tier of work should be performed by the IAF itself. Private industry needs to be nurtured, but they will not be interested in this particular effort. Getting them to manufacture the NAL Saras or the avro replacement would be a good start. Maybe even outsource some of the manufacture of Rafales and LCAs, if it is financially viable and desirable.

Private players will never invest in big project straight away, they need to have experience and expertise that can only be gained through these type of projects or getting involved in big projects like Rafale through small and non critical component on small scale.

Sorry to disappoint you but overhaul of Mig-21, mig-23 and Mig-29 was not done by IAF but HAL, including transport planes and helicopters. IAF base depot only look after day to day or normal maintenance work.

You forgot about Su-30 MKI which is built from scratch (including raw materials), excluding radar and some critical engine parts.

As far as NAL Saras is concerned then private players were always involved from the beginning of project, Mahindra is one of them.

Private players are involved in LCA project too. We just need to gradually increase their share of work.