IAF lost 29 fighter planes in past 3 years,Antony says

[BDforever]

To be frank, i am more dismayed at the attrition of Jaguars in the IAF service......albeit, it's been in the IAF service for over 30 years but still over 40 aircraft have been lost in accidents.....considering Jaguars are twin engine jets and have never gone into battle once. !!

careless maintenance is the main reason

 

[indian_foxhound]

how many mig29 we have crashed @Abingdonboy . any idea?

careless maintenance is the main reason

Well su30, just 4 crash in 12 year of service... I guess it shows that ground staff doing good job. For me its a good record

 

[Abingdonboy]

how many mig29 we have crashed @Abingdonboy . any idea?



Well su30, just 4 crash in 12 year of service... I guess it shows that ground staff doing good job. For me its a good record

Since 1980 I think the IAF has lost 7-10 MIG-29.

 

[Sergi]

In that case they can still replace the mig-27s, right? After all the mig 27s have ZERO A2A capability, and don't even have a radar, IIRC.

Your point being ??? Did you miss the news on 27s ???

The LCA has been tested for A2A, the only aspect that hasn't been tested is firing BVR missiles with the radar. Most of our mig 21s are not BVR capable either, only the bisons (and maybe the Bis) are.

AFAIK only Bis and one other later model is in active service. All other are in reserves. And i write precisely Bisons. Correct me if I am wrong.
Do you want to say we should replace a intercepter with GA plane ???

Anyway I am not saying they should immediately replace all the migs with LCAs effective tomorrow. No air force can replace hundreds of fighters that quickly. But they should have begun the process of replacing the migs a long time back. They could have inducted LCAs some time back too, even without A2A capability, like PAF inducted JF-17s before they had A2G capability. There are many, many mistakes that the IAF did over the decades, that has led to this situation now. The issue of ageing migs was felt in the early 90s. It was too old to fly then, and 20 years later, they are still being flown.

*I am not opposing LCA induction. My first post said a willing PM or DM can make IAF induct LCA. I am against replacing a BVR capable Bison with Non-BVR LCA.
Has PAF replaced any active fighter with JF-17 ??? I am not aware of PAFs developement
Some wrong decisions on the part of GOI, IAF and DRDO has caused this delay. Lets not go into that.

They could have inducted more mirages along the way, instead of just 60. They could have ordered a squadron of LCAs a few years back, even without warfighting capability, just to test them and build tactics and doctrines for it. In the early 2000s or even late 90s, they could have decided to decrease the number of squadrons while inducting force multipliers like AEWACs and refuellers. If we had several AEWACS in service in the early 2000s, we could have afforded to phase out the migs a lot sooner, since each squadron would have a lot more warfighting capability than it does without AEWAC support. PAF has 9 AEWACS in service, while the IAF has just three, and wont be getting any for some time to come. If we had introduced such force multipliers a long time back, and built our operational doctrines around those, then we would have been in much better shape today even with fewer squadrons.

your point being ?? I don't have answer to could haves and would have nobody can answer that even if everybody agree on it. So it make no difference

There are many many mistakes that the IAF did, which are not very easy to understand for most people. The idea that a different PM or political party would have understood these things better is laughable.

you can laugh as much as you want. But none armed force can disobey a direct order. With one letter MOD made IAF to transfer attack Helos to IA. They can't disobey. Fact.

I am sure the IAF may have some justifications (valid or not) for the path they chose. But neither the problems, nor the solutions are simple. "Elect modi" or "Down with sonia" are the sort of simplistic "solutions" offered by unimaginative people who cant think beyond sloganeering.

I am not interested in your argument with the other guy so won't comment directly on that

But.....
Intact right now India could use few people capable of fast decision making power and good management skills. Our saint Antony STOPPED the negotiations with Dassault till inquiry was over just for his image sake.

The IAF's problems are NOT political or related to the decisions by any political entity. Who to assign blame is not even a valid question. There are many things that are to be blamed - shortsightedness of the IAF in not foreseeing issues, failure to induct modern systems and to modern tactics and doctrines, abysmally slow acquisition processes, delays from HAL on the LCA front, and so on and so forth.

I didn't blame any political party for anything. Only statement I made is different. Please read it again.

"Elect my favorite candidate, and all issues will be solved" is not going to get us anywhere. I wish many of our people could think a little deeper than that, and not be so trite and superficial.

Was going to skip commenting on this but on closing note
All our delay are due to mis-management and lack of timely decisions like the one you mention in would have and could have part. So right now we really could use somebody capable of that.

And please quote me for the points I made. NOT for somebody else's

 

[janon]

To be frank, i am more dismayed at the attrition of Jaguars in the IAF service......albeit, it's been in the IAF service for over 30 years but still over 40 aircraft have been lost in accidents.....considering Jaguars are twin engine jets and have never gone into battle once. !!

It's not relevant to peace time crash rate, but the jaguars were used in the Kargil war.

 

[Sergi]

All are because FBW. Yea its the matter of concern... Hope we will figure it out ASAP

1st by defect in FBW
2nd a critical switch located at place not visible to pilot and was accidentally turn off by pilot
3rd front gear slept from run way causing nose damage
4th just before iron fist. Practise. Reason not available yet

 

[BDforever]

how many mig29 we have crashed @Abingdonboy . any idea?



Well su30, just 4 crash in 12 year of service... I guess it shows that ground staff doing good job. For me its a good record

are you serious ?

 

[indian_foxhound]

are you serious ?

Yo i m... 4 crash in 12years is good record.... As far as i know

 

[BDforever]

Yo i m... 4 crash in 12years is good record.... As far as i know

ahahahab, i can not stop laughing , you made my day

 

[bigzgvr4]

the article said 4 su 30 in last 3 years what are you smoking indian Foxhound

'thank you come again"

 

[BDforever]

the article said 4 su 30 in last 3 years what are you smoking indian Foxhound

'thank you come again"

@arp2041

 

[indian_foxhound]

the article said 4 su 30 in last 3 years what are you smoking indian Foxhound

'thank you come again"

Oh then you need to do some searching stuff
"thank you for coming"
And see @Sergi post. you should read 1st then post...
1st by defect in FBW
2nd a critical switch located at place not visible
to pilot and was accidentally turn off by pilot
3rd front gear slept from run way causing nose
damage
4th just before iron fist. Practise. Reason not available

 

[janon]

Your point being ??? Did you miss the news on 27s ???The point being that even if the LCA does not have any A2A capability (which isn't true), they can still replace several squadrons of mig 27s in the IAF, and do a much better job than the ancient mig 27s.

AFAIK only Bis and one other later model is in active service. All other are in reserves. And i write precisely Bisons. Correct me if I am wrong.
Do you want to say we should replace a intercepter with GA plane ??? I didn't offer any such quick-fix solutions. The entire thrust of my argument has been that the IAF's woes are complicated, and that there are no ready made solutions available. I did not say "replace all 21s and 27s with LCA and all would be well. I just mentioned the LCA as one of them examples where IAF's attitude has been questionable.


*I am not opposing LCA induction. My first post said a willing PM or DM can make IAF induct LCA. I am against replacing a BVR capable Bison with Non-BVR LCA.
Has PAF replaced any active fighter with JF-17 ??? I am not aware of PAFs developement
Some wrong decisions on the part of GOI, IAF and DRDO has caused this delay. Lets not go into that.

your point being ??The point - again - being that there were several things that the IAF could have done to avoid the scenario it faces today, and none of them were political in nature. I don't have answer to could haves and would have nobody can answer that even if everybody agree on it. So it make no difference

you can laugh as much as you want. But non armed force can refuse a direct order. With one letter MOD made IAF to transfer attack Helos to IA. They can't disobey. Fact. So what is this magic order that any PM could have made, that ensured that our crash rates would be better? You yourself say, rightly, that the IAF cannot suddenly replace all its migs today. It could have retired many of the oldest jets by now if a lot better planning was done, some of which I speculated earlier, which you called "could haves" and "would haves". But it was always IAF's decisions or plans to make, it wasn't the case that a strong PM could have made IAF do any of that. A PM wouldn't know how to plan for the IAF's future either.



I am not interested in your argument with the other guy so won't comment directly on that

But.....
Intact right now India could use few people capable of fast decision making power and good management skills. Our saint Antony STOPPED the negotiations with Dassault till inquiry was over just for his image sake.

I didn't blame any political party for anything. Only statement I made is different. Please read it again. Was going to skip commenting on this but on closing note
All our delay are due to mis-management and lack of timely decisions like the one you mention in would have and could have part. So right now we really could use somebody capable of that. Again, that is institutional, not political. It is the bureaucracy that creates such time delays for acquisitions, and not the minister at the top. Two bureaucracies - one in the MoD, and before that, one in the armed forces itself. An institutional change would be required to rectify that.

And please quote me for the points I made. NOT for somebody else's
My point about some people superficially claiming that "Elect XYZ and all will be well" was obviously not about you. I clearly said "some people" generically and did not address that to you. It was meant as a continuation of the conversation in the thread. If I have misattributed a quote to you, please point that out and I will correct it.

My responses in red.

 

[indian_foxhound]

@bigzgvr4 just 4 crash in 12years
EVER READY TROLLING NA?
BAS MOKA CHAHIYE

 

[bigzgvr4]

@bigzgvr4 just 4 crash in 12years
EVER READY TROLLING NA?
BAS MOKA CHAHIYE

DUDE it is in article according to antony SOO I dont know what are you talking about Read the First page of the thread first post dude
or maybe you are in denial

"thank you come again'