IAF in love with 'Swiss Bird', fate of India's own Basic Trainer hangs in balance

[Bhasad Singh Mundi]

Read what most posters here have said , you might get the idea.

is it a bhed chaal?

 

[amitkriit]

Government must make it mandatory that if an Indian alternative is available then foreign equipment will not be put under consideration.

 

[Bhasad Singh Mundi]

Government must make it mandatory that if an Indian alternative is available then foreign equipment will not be put under consideration.

Indian alternative wont be available ever. It will always be in development and trials chakra. No nirvana.

 

[amitkriit]

Indian alternative wont be available ever. It will always be in development and trials chakra. No nirvana.

May be our decision makers want that.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Don't be fooled by the BS spin the Indian media will put on this. Ask yourselves why the HELL is HAL only NOW, STARTING work on the HTT-40?? They've had DECADES to come up with this bird whilst Deepaks were killing airmen and did nothing. The IAF was forced to look abroad as the Deepak fleet had to be grounded on critical safety concerns, Pilatus won out and delivered the first birds on a fast-track basis meaning the IAF's training regime is in its strongest position for a long, long time. It is only now that HAL have thought to get to work on the HTT-40? A follow up order from Pilatus of another 150+ PC-7s makes all the sense in the world as far as logistics and training costs are concerned and the HTT-40 is still nowhere to be seen.

Now what does the IAF do? Compromise on their training regime for the foreseeable future and wait on a bird that is yet to even fly?

Have TWO types of machine do the same exact thing in service?


To add insult to injury, HAL have even quoted a price that is MORE than the PC-7 per unit!


I've always said, IF Indian industry can come up with what the Indian Mil wants then great but when they can't go abroad- don't wait around exposing the Indian Mil to obsolesence and dwindling of their capabilities? NO.

Sadly, that's the case and that's why Army or AF sometimes refuse their products and they also feel complacent. Now the Govt. should tell them if they want further bonus or some increment they have to earn it, But will the Govt. tell them?

Thanks for the compliment! crap aside, you right on one point they are going for whats best for THEM ( retirement plans etc). Its just hard to see decades experience of building trainers by HAL go down the drain just because some one sitting at the top loves swiss birds.

Indian alternative wont be available ever. It will always be in development and trials chakra. No nirvana.

Don't come up with such BS. I know this is how certain Indian Media outlets will try to spin this but it's 100% BS.

 

[trident2010]

Get the best available for defence forces ..

 

[Bhasad Singh Mundi]

I've always said, IF Indian industry can come up with what the Indian Mil wants then great but when they can't go abroad- don't wait around exposing the Indian Mil to obsolesence and dwindling of their capabilities? NO.






Don't come up with such BS. I know this is how certain Indian Media outlets will try to spin this but it's 100% BS.

Indian media outlets never say a word against foreign maal.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Indian media outlets never say a word against foreign maal.

Umm yes they do- they're always trying to malign foreign defence purchases and boost Indian products to a status they don't deserve.

 

[acetophenol]

IAF is simply in love with the bird that fly,as long as HTT-40 don't fly,HAL doesn't have any voice.

 

[Hulk]

IAF is right, I do not get any logic of building the basic trainer in near future. Does anyone else thinks differently?

 

[Bhasad Singh Mundi]

Umm yes they do- they're always trying to malign foreign defence purchases and boost Indian products to a status they don't deserve.

LOL malign foreign purchase? I never heard media sources saying don't buy T90, Foreign guns, planes etc...

IAF is right, I do not get any logic of building the basic trainer in near future. Does anyone else thinks differently?

May be you are right. When time comes to replace swiss trainers in future, then only HAL should start working on its trainers.

 

[kurup]

MoD Backs HAL in Turf War With Air Force on BTA Project

In the ongoing turf war between Hindustan Aeronautics Limited(HAL)and the Indian Air Force(IAF) over the development of the indigenous Basic Trainer Aircraft(BTA), the Ministry of Defence(MoD) winds seem to be blowing the public sector undertaking’s way.

Following a year-long public spat between HAL supremo R K Tyagi and the then IAF chief N A K Browne, the MoD has acquiesced to the HAL continuing with the BTA project despite the IAF stand that it was no longer interested in the ambitious programme.

In fact,the MoD has come up with funds from its internal resources to aid the project undertaken by the defence PSU instead of asking the IAF to bankroll it. And the ministry’s abiding interest in the programme is particularly significant since no formal approval has been given for the same.

Interestingly, the new twist to the HAL-IAF tussle came after Browne, who vociferously rejected the HAL’s HTT-40 for a BTA, retired in December and Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha succeeded him as IAF chief.

And an MoD representative told a Parliamentary Standing Committee recently that the HAL was going ahead with the development of the BTA with the help of its internal resources. This was clearly in line with the view of the HAL chief, who has been pushing for the HTT-40 project. However, the MoD representative said the revised detailed project report of HTT-40 “is yet to be approved” by the Director General (Acquisition).

HAL had informed the MoD that it felt the aircraft would be less expensive compared to the imported BTA on life cycle cost basis and the funding would be borne by the PSU internally.

MoD Backs HAL in Turf War With Air Force on BTA Project | idrw.org

 

[kurup]

Breaking! IAF Dumps HTT-40, Initiates Procurement of Additional 106 PC-7 Mk II Basic Trainer Aircraft (BTA)


Pilatus PC-7 Mk-2 at Aero India 2013

The MOD has sought proposals from Indian companies for supply of 106 Pilatus PC-7 Mk-2 Basic Trainer Aircraft (BTA) under the category of Buy and Make (Indian) as stipulated at Para 4(c) of DPP-2013.

Competing Indian vendors are expected to form a joint venture with OEM M/s Pilatus Aircraft Ltd, Switzerland, and supply an initial lot of aircraft with support equipment in flyaway condition under the Buy portion of the procurement, and the remaining aircraft and equipment through licensed production/indigenous manufacture in India under the 'Make' portion.

The aircraft and associated equipment in this procurement are required to be supplied in the same configuration/specifications and scale as was contracted with M/s Pilatus Aircraft Ltd earlier.

The IAF wants the supply of the 106 aircraft to start in 2015-16 and be completed by 2020-21.

The IAF is already operating the PC-7 Mk-2 BTA for training its rookie and instructor pilots, having procured the aircraft from Pilatus under a contract for supply of 75 aircraft signed on May 24, 2012. The contract is expected to be fulfilled by mid-2015.

The contract contains a TOT clause to enable a local company to maintain the platform throughout its service life of over 30 years. There is also an option to extend the scope of the contract within 3 years, which would be exercised for the additional procurement.

At the time of signing the initial contract, it was expected that the IAF's requirement for additional 106 BTAs would be met by HAL, which is in the process of developing the HTT-40 trainer as a PC-7 Mk-2 replacement. However, the IAF now believes that HAL will not be able to to develop the HTT-40 in time and has opted for additional PC-7 Mk-2s instead.

The IAF's decision is also based on a desire to limit the types of aircraft in its inventory to ensure more efficient maintenance.

In January 2014, it was reported that the IAF has sought MOD nod for producing the PC-7 Mk-2 BTA at 5 BRD in Sulur, near Nashik, having told the MOD that the service is facing a shortage of pilots due to by bottlenecks in training caused by limited availability of trainer aircraft.

The IAF proposal is backed by Pilatus, which sent a team to Sulur to inspect the facilities available there. The cost of producing the aircraft at Sulur is assessed as being comparable with the price paid for the 75 aircraft purchased earlier.

IAF is also citing the success of South African Air Force in producing Pilatus trainer in-house, while pointing out that the IAF's facility at Sulur is better than the one in South Africa.

According to the IAF proposal, the first 10 of the 106 aircraft would be bought off the shelf, 28 in semi knocked down kits, and 68 in completely knocked down kits.

Thum! Kaun Aata Hai?: Breaking! IAF Dumps HTT-40, Initiates Procurement of Additional 106 PC-7 Mk II Basic Trainer Aircraft (BTA)

 

[Tshering22]

Thanks to HAL's incompetence and babugiri... billions go abroad.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Breaking! IAF Dumps HTT-40, Initiates Procurement of Additional 106 PC-7 Mk II Basic Trainer Aircraft (BTA)


Pilatus PC-7 Mk-2 at Aero India 2013

The MOD has sought proposals from Indian companies for supply of 106 Pilatus PC-7 Mk-2 Basic Trainer Aircraft (BTA) under the category of Buy and Make (Indian) as stipulated at Para 4(c) of DPP-2013.

Competing Indian vendors are expected to form a joint venture with OEM M/s Pilatus Aircraft Ltd, Switzerland, and supply an initial lot of aircraft with support equipment in flyaway condition under the Buy portion of the procurement, and the remaining aircraft and equipment through licensed production/indigenous manufacture in India under the 'Make' portion.

The aircraft and associated equipment in this procurement are required to be supplied in the same configuration/specifications and scale as was contracted with M/s Pilatus Aircraft Ltd earlier.

The IAF wants the supply of the 106 aircraft to start in 2015-16 and be completed by 2020-21.

The IAF is already operating the PC-7 Mk-2 BTA for training its rookie and instructor pilots, having procured the aircraft from Pilatus under a contract for supply of 75 aircraft signed on May 24, 2012. The contract is expected to be fulfilled by mid-2015.

The contract contains a TOT clause to enable a local company to maintain the platform throughout its service life of over 30 years. There is also an option to extend the scope of the contract within 3 years, which would be exercised for the additional procurement.

At the time of signing the initial contract, it was expected that the IAF's requirement for additional 106 BTAs would be met by HAL, which is in the process of developing the HTT-40 trainer as a PC-7 Mk-2 replacement. However, the IAF now believes that HAL will not be able to to develop the HTT-40 in time and has opted for additional PC-7 Mk-2s instead.

The IAF's decision is also based on a desire to limit the types of aircraft in its inventory to ensure more efficient maintenance.

In January 2014, it was reported that the IAF has sought MOD nod for producing the PC-7 Mk-2 BTA at 5 BRD in Sulur, near Nashik, having told the MOD that the service is facing a shortage of pilots due to by bottlenecks in training caused by limited availability of trainer aircraft.

The IAF proposal is backed by Pilatus, which sent a team to Sulur to inspect the facilities available there. The cost of producing the aircraft at Sulur is assessed as being comparable with the price paid for the 75 aircraft purchased earlier.

IAF is also citing the success of South African Air Force in producing Pilatus trainer in-house, while pointing out that the IAF's facility at Sulur is better than the one in South Africa.

According to the IAF proposal, the first 10 of the 106 aircraft would be bought off the shelf, 28 in semi knocked down kits, and 68 in completely knocked down kits.

Thum! Kaun Aata Hai?: Breaking! IAF Dumps HTT-40, Initiates Procurement of Additional 106 PC-7 Mk II Basic Trainer Aircraft (BTA)

Thank god sense is prevailing, HAL shot themselves in the foot with this deal and their attempt to save face by pushing the HTT-40 AFTER the IAF had already ordered the PC-7 was pathetic.