IAF Gnat Not First To Surrender. !

[Abu Zolfiqar]

quite an emotional jihad i must say....some nerves were ticked

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

exactly!!

which further proves Irfan's point regarding war in general and especially in this context Pak-indo [air] wars....

there are ups and downs and its a fact.

so what's the selectiveness? It would be selective if he deleted indian posts no?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Getting shot down and allegedly surrendering your AC are two different things. First one happens all the time in a war. Nothing new.

nothing new at all.....

on a side note, we also shot down their soviet buddies on numerous occasions.

including one Colonel Rudskoi Alexander Vladimirovich (an Inspector of SU-25s deployed in Soviet-occupied Afghanistan)

he was taken POW and later he would become the Russian vice president in '91

 

[toxic_pus]

Just for the record.

At Sakesar Radar, Farooq was keeping abreast of the situation. Anticipating the need for reinforcement, he had scrambled another Starfighter to the scene. Flown by Flt Lt Hakimullah, it arrived a bit late for the Gnats which had turned away. One Gnat, however, was seen to be behaving strangely; having gone back, it turned about and re-entered Pakistani airspace. Hakimullah, who was supersonic at this time, was directed towards the errant intruder. Though Hakimullah could not sight the tiny Gnat at the speed he was flying, he learnt from Sakesar that his adversary had slowed down to what appeared like landing speed. Hakimullah set up orbit over the area, wondering if a forced landing was in progress. Shortly thereafter, to his utter surprise, he picked contact with a Gnat taxiing down the disused Pasrur airstrip near Sialkot.

-snip-

During interrogation Sikand claimed that almost all his systems failed soon after he was separated from his formation. Once he had lost visual contact with everyone, he tried to communicate on the radio, but found it dead. His guns too had jammed, fuel flow had become erratic and the fuel quantity was low; incredibly, his compass also went berserk and he lost his bearings. If there was any hope of making it back, the Starfighters snuffed it. Under the circumstances, the airstrip that he saw was a godsend, no matter that he stepped off his Gnat as a vanquished airman.

Aeronaut: “Run … it’s a 104”

When Flt Lt Hakimullah first noticed the Gnat, it was already on the ground, which pretty much rules out any possibility of surrender or forced landing.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Anymore trolling, no more infractions rather straight bans.

And the warning is for both sides.

Can't discuss the topic, then shut up and leave the thread instead of derailing the thread.

 

[Windjammer]

Just for the record.



Aeronaut: “Run … it’s a 104”

When Flt Lt Hakimullah first noticed the Gnat, it was already on the ground, which pretty much rules out any possibility of surrender or forced landing.

Quite selective in posting from the article. !!

“Pajh oye … 104 eeee,” Sikand shouted out to Pathania in inimitable Punjabi (the English translation, “Run … it’s a 104” just cannot grasp the hint of mad rush in the expression)[3]. The ‘104’ did not stay in the fight for long as the idea was to charge in at supersonic speed and try a pot shot or, simply overwhelm the adversaries with sheer awe[4]. Mirza did his act a couple of times before leaving the scene; it had a salutary effect, as the dogfight broke off and the Gnats started egressing. Sikand, who had initiated the panic call, broke off too, but in an opposite direction, thus losing contact with his wingman as well as the rest of the formation.

While the F-104 may have not seen the Gnat, the Indian pilot certainly were aware of it's presence which duly had the profound effect on the victim/formation. Here's more to the story.

While this battle of wits between the Sabres, Gnats and the single F-104 was going on, Sakesar had scrambled another F-104 to the scene, Flown by Flight Lieutenant Hakimullah, it arrived in time to take part, together with the other F-104, in forcing down a Gnat which had strayed from its main formation, and had to contend with 2 F-104s at uncomfortably close quarters. Finding himself over an abandoned airfield (Pasrur), Squadron Leader Brij Pal Singh Sikand seeing no other way out of his predicament, immediately landed his Gnat to save his skin. F/L Hakimullah circled overhead until the capture of the aircraft and the pilot was assured by Pakistani troops. Although the F-104s had no direct success so far, it was evident that the IAF had a very healthy regard for its capabilities. The pilot of the captured Gnat - who happened to be the squadron commander, and who was to be dismissed by the IAF while still in captivity stated that he had only the night before arrived at Halwara from Ambala. After refuelling at Pathankot, his formation of six Gnats were assigned that morning to provide close support for Indian Army troops in the Bhimber area.

This, of course, had been frustrated by the determined action of the outnumbered PAF pilots, after which the IAF Gnat pilot claimed that be had lost his radio and compass, and that his two 30mm cannon had jammed. The Indian prisoner, also bet the PAF pilot assigned to fly the Gnat away from Pasrur that he would not be able to start the aircraft, let alone get it airborne. What the Indian pilot did not know however, was that Sqn Ldr S. A. Hatmi of the PAF had flown Gnat Trainers extensively with the RAF, and the differences from the AL-built fighter version were sufficiently minor to present him few problems.

When the Gnat flew into Sargodha three days after landing at Pasrur, with an escort of six Sabres, it was greeted with acclamation, and its few secrets were soon laid bare, although a tactical evaluation was not possible until after the end of hostilities. It was recognised as an effective little aircraft, although with limited range and an inferior turning circle to the Sabre. As for its muchboosted reputation as 'Sabre-Slayer'. it seems that in this respect, the Indians appear to have been victims of their own propaganda. Certainly the Gnat was regarded by the PAF with less respect than the Hunter. Nor is the PAF convinced that it lost more than one or two Sabres to Gnats throughout the entire period of hostilities with India. Meanwhile Gnat No IE 1083 is still hangared at Sargodha as a treasured momento to the PAF's moral superiority over the IAF. And when its guns were tested immediately after its capture, they worked perfectly

 

[toxic_pus]

While the F-104 may have not seen the Gnat, the Indian pilot certainly were aware of it's presence which duly had the profound effect on the victim/formation.

That may be so. It still wouldn't count as surrender or forced landing, in absence of an enforcer.

Here's more to the story.

Sure.

 

[SQ8]

That may be so. It still wouldn't count as surrender or forced landing, in absence of an enforcer.


Sure.

Either that, or the just the thought of the enforcer was enough to force him down..
After all.. A lot of the Iraqi AF fled into Iran without even facing an adversary..
The 104 was an overbloated myth.. considering its limitations...but perhaps that did have an effect.

 

[Windjammer]

Either that, or the just the thought of the enforcer was enough to force him down..
After all.. A lot of the Iraqi AF fled into Iran without even facing an adversary..
The 104 was an overbloated myth.. considering its limitations...but perhaps that did have an effect.

The term the Indian pilots used for the F-104 was...."Badmash". In 1965, instead of finding ways to counter it, the IAF decided to avoid it at all cost.

 

[SQ8]

The term the Indian pilots used for the F-104 was...."Badmash". In 1965, instead of finding ways to counter it, the IAF decided to avoid it at all cost.

Well.. the term "badmash" may have simply referred to the status of the aircraft as a enemy(bandit).
but the fact remains that the aircraft maintained a sense of false awe among certain IAF pilots due to them being led badly.

 

[Skull and Bones]

F-104 was mainly meant for fly high, spot enemy aircraft, fire and run. As a dogfighter it hardly had any significance.

 

[Areesh]

Either that, or the just the thought of the enforcer was enough to force him down..
After all.. A lot of the Iraqi AF fled into Iran without even facing an adversary..
The 104 was an overbloated myth.. considering its limitations...but perhaps that did have an effect.

True . The first expression of Sikand when he first saw F-104 was.

“Pajh oye … 104 eeee,”

Your post makes sense if we consider this part of the incident.

 

[toxic_pus]

Either that, or the just the thought of the enforcer was enough to force him down..
After all.. A lot of the Iraqi AF fled into Iran without even facing an adversary..
The 104 was an overbloated myth.. considering its limitations...but perhaps that did have an effect.

Possible.

But circumstances as narrated by Mr Tufail indicate genuine disorientation, for reasons known only to him. Why else would he break a fight only to fly straight into enemy air space? Further was he even aware of the fact that he was in fact being chased by F-104? Again, Mr Tufail's narrative leaves the possibility open, that he was completely unaware of the whole situation.

As with the Iraqi AF, they were facing USAF. To consider PAF to be as intimidating as USAF is a stretch, and frankly, amusing.

 

[turbo charged]

imo we should have kept this plane in flying condition....one our national day there should be a flyby just consisting of these soviet,afghan and indian planes that we have captured in one piece.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

F-104 was mainly meant for fly high, spot enemy aircraft, fire and run. As a dogfighter it hardly had any significance.

just look at one and you'll see why

look at its wingspan

in fact they were easily destabilized if any pilot error was made, very unforgiving aircrafts