What's new

IAF gears up for US air combat exercises

shree835

BANNED
Joined
Jun 26, 2010
Messages
3,005
Reaction score
-19
Country
India
Location
India
Top-gun Indian pilots are now quietly honing their combat skills on frontline Sukhoi-30MKI “air dominance” fighters to take on the best in the world. They know it will be the closest they will come to realistic air combat without actually going to war.

The IAF is getting all set to dispatch eight Sukhoi-30MKIs, two C-130J “Super Hercules” tactical airlift planes, two IL-78 mid-air refuelling tankers and one IL-76 heavy-lift aircraft, along with over 150 personnel, for the “mother” of all air combat exercises: the world-famous “Red Flag” exercise held at the Nellis US Air Force (USAF) base in Nevada, northwest of Las Vegas.

The high-voltage, “network-centric” exercise will not only provide an opportunity for IAF pilots to match their combat skills with the USAF and its allies, but also serve to establish the force’s capability to “project air power” by deploying “a trans-continental task force” across the globe.

“Red Flag is undoubtedly the most demanding air exercise. Our boys will have to demonstrate their professional capabilities as well as achieve high mission accomplishment and serviceability rates,” said an officer.

With 1,900 possible targets, realistic threat systems and an opposing enemy force that “cannot be replicated anywhere else in the world”, the USAF itself tom-toms the Red Flag exercise as the best platform “to train to fight together, survive together and win together”.

Though the actual Red Flag exercise will be conducted from July 14 to 26, it will involve first flying to the US and then undertaking the “work-up” phases and exercises to familiarise with “the new high-tech flying environment”. Overall, the entire endeavour will involve flying close to 20,000-km, with well over 300 sorties. It will also be costly, with the price tag being pegged around Rs 100 crore.

This will be the second time IAF will take part in the complex air combat manoeuvres of the Red Flag. It was blooded the first time in mid-2008, which proved “an eye-opener” for many. IAF was then still not fully familiar with operating in an AWACS (airborne warning and control systems) environment.

That is no longer the case. The force now has its own Israeli Phalcon AWACs, which aretremendous force-multipliers in modern day air combat. IAF chief Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne, in fact, himself flew in a Phalcon AWACS during the ongoing “Live-Wire” exercise being conducted in phases throughout the country.

IAF fighter pilots have managed to hold their own, many a time outgunning their rivals, in the series of bilateral exercises with the US, the UK and France, among others, over the years. They are now all gung-ho about doing the same in Red Flag.

SOURCE: TNN


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...air-combat-exercises/articleshow/19373810.cms
 
.
My good wishes are with IAF:tup: and I hope this time no ill headed Nellis pilot come and give similar s hit as they gave last time.:blah::tdown:
 
.
OOOOOO I'd love to see Terence Fornoff's face now............
 
.
Let's not bash Col Terrence Fornof just because snippets of his lecture were aired and chosen few comments (which hurt our pride) were magnified. If anyone had watched the entire video of his lecture, things would be put in much better perspective instead of crying MOMMY HE BADMOUTHED US. His assessment was a spade is a spade. Too bad if we Indians didn't like the bitter truth but - from his lecture to now, we have come a long way in improving our tactics , which we have honed .

(That said, before we all went red faced with Col T.F, the French had a few words of advise for us too..... but we never made our vitriol about the Frenchies cos at that point the media didn't have much to dig out from their pouty mouths). Point is , nothing shameful to get an honest assessment.

And while on the topic, every reason why our boys-to-men will do a fantastic job in the exercises - considering the fact that past airmen who participated in this ex. will also come in handy training our pilots.

God Speed , Hail India !
 
.
hmm, IAF are sending 2 C-130Js also in addition to the standard complement of 8 MKIs, 2 IL-78MKI AARs and 1 IL-76. Maybe for the Garuds to use (as the Hercs are dedicated Spec Ops platforms in the IAF).

Let's not bash Col Terrence Fornof just because snippets of his lecture were aired and chosen comments were magnified. If anyone had watched the entire video of his lecture, things would be put in much better perspective instead of crying MOMMY HE BADMOUTHED US. His assessment was a spade is a spade. Too bad if we Indians didn't like the bitter truth but - from his lecture to now, we have come a long way in improving our tactics , which we have honed .

(That said, before we all went red faced with Col T.F, the French had a few words of advise for us too). Point is , nothing shameful to get an honest assessment.
Right, if you watch the lecture in full he is actually quite fair and praises the IAF to a large degree. The majority of the issues he raises are perfectly valid and understandable for the rookie pilots the IAF sent operating without the USAF AWACS support. He does get a few things quite wrong though most notably the engine and FOD situation.
 
.
Let's not bash Col Terrence Fornof just because snippets of his lecture were aired and chosen few comments (which hurt our pride) were magnified. If anyone had watched the entire video of his lecture, things would be put in much better perspective instead of crying MOMMY HE BADMOUTHED US. His assessment was a spade is a spade. Too bad if we Indians didn't like the bitter truth but - from his lecture to now, we have come a long way in improving our tactics , which we have honed .

(That said, before we all went red faced with Col T.F, the French had a few words of advise for us too..... but we never made our vitriol about the Frenchies cos at that point the media didn't have much to dig out from their pouty mouths). Point is , nothing shameful to get an honest assessment.

And while on the topic, every reason why our boys-to-men will do a fantastic job in the exercises - considering the fact that past airmen who participated in this ex. will also come in handy training our pilots.

God Speed , Hail India !

You need to know that his assessment had several mistakes, read this:

Despite Col. Fornof having observed Red Flag up close, his comments should not be treated as the gospel truth - there is a possibility that he is ‘playing to the gallery’. His comments are noteworthy since he is an operational pilot with the USAF but he certainly cannot cover the entire exercise and has no inside knowledge of the way IAF ‘fought’. The comments initially appear to be negative about the IAF to the uninformed listener; overall he has actually praised the IAF and its performance.

The Su-30MKI did not use the data link in the exercise unlike the other air forces. The reason being the HAL supplied system is not compatible with NATO data links – neither is the system required to be compatible with NATO. The speaker clearly mentions that the high fratricide ratio in the kills was because of this reason. While NATO air forces are designed to inter operate with each other and carry out joint missions, the IAF is not.

Su-30MKI is equipped with its own data link which can share target information across multiple fighters. IAF is presently inducting A-50EI Phalcon AEW&C aircraft. Red Flag and other exercises before it have seen IAF working very closely with the AWACS crew of the other air force. Operational Data Link (ODL) will be provided to all fighters in the IAF over the coming years.

The IFF system used by IAF is not compatible with NATO standard, hence the need for verbal communication with the controller.

The aircraft were operating their radars on training mode since the actual signals with which the Bars radar operates are kept secret.


The high mix of highly experienced pilots in Ex Cope India, if true, cannot be consistent across all sqns that were involved in the exercise. During Cope India, the 24 Sqn operating Su-30K/MK was first Flanker unit in the IAF and only one of two Su-30 units in the entire IAF at that time. To find a concentration of senior pilots in these squadrons will not be unexpected given that these units will be forging doctrines and tactics and building up a pool of pilots. Per article on Cope India here; “Nor did U.S. pilots believe they faced only India's top guns. Instead, they said that at least in some units they faced a mix of experienced and relatively new Indian fighter and strike pilots.”. Moreover, the mix of experience needs to be examined for the USAF squadrons as well. The aggressor squadron at Nellis and the F-22 attracts the best in the USA.

MiG-21 Bison does not have an Israeli radar as noted in the lecture. The type is equipped with a Phazotron Kopyo (spear) unit. The Kopyo radar has a 57km detection range against a 5 m^2 (54ft^2) radar cross section, or fighter-sized target. It can track eight targets and shoot at two simultaneously.

Su-30MKI is equipped with Saturn AL-31FP engines, not Turmansky as mentioned in the lecture

Soviet era aircraft were designed to operate from poorly prepared airfields. For example; MiG-29 closes its intakes during taxi and take-off to avoid ingestion of FOD thrown up by the front wheels. In this state the engines are supplied air thru louvres located on upper surface of the leading edge. This design feature is at the cost of significant internal fuel capacity and hence has been eliminated in newer MiG-29 versions starting with the K/KUB variants. Flanker come with lighter anti-FOD grills in the intakes as well as wheel fenders that catch FOD. IAF has precautions built into their SOPs – which may be overlooked in case of war or any such exigency. Since the deployment was far away from home base in the USA, with no spares support and related infrastructure it was well worth to observe strict adherence to SOPs instead to being stuck with a grounded aircraft!

This is not the first time the MiG-21 Bison has been praised for successes during dissimilar air combat training (DACT) – even during previous USAF exercise and internal IAF exercises pilots are known to have scored ‘kills’ against more advanced adversaries. The small size (lower visual signature) and inherently small radar cross section coupled with modern avionics, radar, effective jammers, precision guided munitions and missiles (R-73, R-77) make Bison one of the best fighters in IAF after Su-30 and Mirage-2000. IAF’s has had good experience with small jets such as Gnat which earned the reputation of “Sabre Slayer” in the 1965 war with Pakistan. The under-development LCA Tejas promises to carry on this legacy when it replaces the Bison.
 
.
f22,f35 r participating!!!?also why is mig29 not participating???
 
.
(That said, before we all went red faced with Col T.F, the French had a few words of advise for us too..... but we never made our vitriol about the Frenchies cos at that point the media didn't have much to dig out from their pouty mouths).

What did the french say? I haven't heard or read anything about it. Any link to read their assessment?
 
.
What did the french say? I haven't heard or read anything about it. Any link to read their assessment?

Exactly. I feel that we should have done the same. I am sure the reactions of pros was very different. It was us in the public domain who made this such a huge issue. The Col though also gave quite a lot of complement to Indian Rookies. They can only improve. While I don't remember he said any thing good about the French.
 
.

Latest posts

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom