IAF briefs Lockheed Martin on MMRCA deal..

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Let's see how this conversation should have gone.

India : Can we have TOT ?
US : Aaaa..... NA!

India : Source code of AESA Radar?
US : Ohhhh....... No!

India: Can we be sure that platform will be supported by u after 2030?
US : well... i.. well.... F35.... so... sorry!!!!

India : FCUK OFF

well to some extend, perhaps this could be accurate....

I'm happy to say that LM F-16 flown by a certain air force managed to shoot down an enemy (under trial) UAV flown by another certain air force

 

[Abingdonboy]

well to some extend, perhaps this could be accurate....

I'm happy to say that LM F-16 flown by a certain air force managed to shoot down an enemy (under trial) UAV flown by another certain air force

You are bragging about this? An advanced, supersonic fighter jet shooting down a small, propeller driven remote controlled plane?!


Seems like overkill and I'm just left with - AND??

 

[MrIndianSikh]

well to some extend, perhaps this could be accurate....

I'm happy to say that LM F-16 flown by a certain air force managed to shoot down an enemy (under trial) UAV flown by another certain air force

well in that case shouldn't we be happy to say that a certain air force using a MiG-21 shot down another navy's air arm maritime patrol aircraft after it crossed into that said country's territory?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

You are bragging about this? An advanced, supersonic fighter jet shooting down a small, propeller driven remote controlled plane?!

I was merely pointing out an unprecendented (at the time) feat.

During the Russian-Georgian war of 2008, a Russian Mig-29 downed a Georgian Israeli-made Hermes 450 reccon drone.

you have to think about it pragmatically -- a threat originating from a hostile entity was identified (almost immediately when it approached and entered Pakistani territory) and was neutralized. The means itself is not what is important; it's sometimes easier to deploy an aircraft and use a heat-seeking sidewinder. A lot has changed since 2002 though as far as capability is concerned

Seems like overkill and I'm just left with - AND??

the objective was satisfied...doesnt matter overkill or underkill.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

well in that case shouldn't we be happy to say that a certain air force using a MiG-21 shot down another navy's air arm maritime patrol aircraft after it crossed into that said country's territory?

and this is something the indians have often bragged about, even on this forum.....regardless of where the aircraft was at the time, who is disputing that?

I could go on about Mig-19 equivalents (guns only) downing FAR superior Mig-21 flown by indian pilots, but we'd be steering off the course of the discussion, which already it seems we are doing.

 

[sukhish]

India will go with Rafaels.End of story

unicorn,
I'am not so sure that India will go with rafale. just recently India signed up france to upgrade it mirage 200 fleet worth $2.7 billion. I think this MMRCA is going to EF typhoon.

Also there are couple of reasons in favor of typoon:

political :

1) spain and italy are going through the worst economic crisis of their history. India wants to have leverage over italy and spain.
italy spearheads the coffe club in the UN and India wants to break that.

2) EF consortium is givin lots of ToT, as a matter of fact yesterday itself news came out that EADS would partner with a private india firm
for developemnt of critical aviation technologies ( which nobody is willing to give it to india , not even russia ) , this will change the whole landscape
of the avaition industry in the India.

 

[Indian-Devil]

unicorn,
I'am not so sure that India will go with rafale. just recently India signed up france to upgrade it mirage 200 fleet worth $2.7 billion. I think this MMRCA is going to EF typhoon.

Also there are couple of reasons in favor of typoon:

political :

1) spain and italy are going through the worst economic crisis of their history. India wants to have leverage over italy and spain.
italy spearheads the coffe club in the UN and India wants to break that.

2) EF consortium is givin lots of ToT, as a matter of fact yesterday itself news came out that EADS would partner with a private india firm
for developemnt of critical aviation technologies ( which nobody is willing to give it to india , not even russia ) , this will change the whole landscape
of the avaition industry in the India.

I dont think selction of Aircraft will be done on basis of what is the economic condition for Spain and Italy. It will be more on what is on offer(current & future) and at what price. This deal is not for satisfying the countries who didn't get any other orders from India.

 

[fast]

Lockheed Martin underestimated the appetite of the corrupted Indian's hunger for bribe. It should do well the next time by offering a bigger kickback.

 

[rajusri]

well to some extend, perhaps this could be accurate....

I'm happy to say that LM F-16 flown by a certain air force managed to shoot down an enemy (under trial) UAV flown by another certain air force

Any helicopter can do that.

 

[rajusri]

Lockheed Martin underestimated the appetite of the corrupted Indian's hunger for bribe. It should do well the next time by offering a bigger kickback.

false flag. shame.

After all they are not aiding actually. It is Indian money not donated.

 

[RPK]

US fighter companies satisfied after MMRCA downselect debrief

US fighter companies satisfied after MMRCA downselect debrief
By Stephen Trimble

Both US bidders shut out of a competition for a major fighter contract still have no complaints after receiving a long-awaited debriefing from the Indian Air Force (IAF).

Boeing and Lockheed Martin representatives attended a government-to-government debriefing between Indian and US officials on 11 July.

The debriefing was requested by the US government after the IAF down-selected to the Dassault Rafale and Eurofighter Typhoon in late April. The decision included four other bidders, including the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and the Lockheed Martin F-16IN.

Both companies have previously said they accept the IAF's decision, but requested a debrief to understand why their bids fell short in the technical evaluation. Details of the debriefing have not been disclosed, but neither company stated any complaints about the results of the IAF's evaluation process.

"The decision has been made by the IAF and throughout the competition [Lockheed Martin] has been extremely impressed with the IAF and the professional manner in which the competition was conducted," Lockheed said.

Boeing also released a statement re-iterating the company's acceptance of the IAF decision, but also suggested the Super Hornet could be proposed again to New Dehli.

"Should future requirements emerge to fulfill India's air power capabilities, we will be happy to discuss them," Boeing said.

Despite losing the opportunity to win the MMRCA contract, both contractors have made significant gains in India since the US removed a weapons export ban in 2005.

Boeing has received commitments to buy the P-8, C-17, AH-64 and CH-47. Lockheed has sold the C-130J to India.

The other two bidders excluded from the final round of the MMRCA competition were the Saab Gripen and the Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-35.

 

[John Doe]

you have to think about it pragmatically -- a threat originating from a hostile entity was identified (almost immediately when it approached and entered Pakistani territory) and was neutralized. the objective was satisfied...doesnt matter overkill or underkill.

Are you sure about the 'Immediate identification and neutralization'? This is only how it was marketed to you countrymen, and this twisted marketing is happening even in the OBL raid!

"Searcher-II has an endurance of 14 hours and venture out for 250 Km from the base; it can climb up to an altitude of 16,000 Ft (4875 m). It is not known to what degree it fulfilled its mission but the depth of interception was significant considering that Pakistan's Air Defence Net is strongest in Punjab. Neither is it known what pattern the Aircraft flew over Pakistan and for how long; but still it would be a mistake to take Dogran Kalan's straight distance from the International Border at Punjab as the measure of intrusion since the mission started from Jammu and/or the route taken could have been circuitous.

For Pakistan, the detection of the spy plane and its interception was projected as a proof of capability of their air defence network; even though the same can be viewed as a serious bungling judging by the distance it traveled into Pakistan."

 

[notsuperstitious]

F16 has a very impressive history, however that is irrelevant to this thread. So lets not make off topic comments just because you have that irresistible urge.

It did not fit our plan, so we rejected it and we briefed the Americans. Thats how it should work, this is not a comment on the F16, so don't let your easily hurt ego get hurt over a non issue. Thanks.

 

[sancho]

I dont think selction of Aircraft will be done on basis of what is the economic condition for Spain and Italy. It will be more on what is on offer(current & future) and at what price. This deal is not for satisfying the countries who didn't get any other orders from India.

The deal will not be done on this basis of course, but it could have an important point in the decision, because if we know that 2 (I would even add UK) of the EF partners are close to bankruptcy, we also know that any further developments has to be paid by us, or Germany possibly. So besides the high cost per number, these problems gives big risks of high additional costs in future as well. So we have to keep an eye on that as well, just like on the fact that UK and Italy also have the F35 project, where they seems to have a higher focus on. We heared that the Mig 35 and F16 was not shortlisted also because of their low future potential, but lack of fundings, or orders and other commitments of the EF partners, will limit its future potential as well.

F16 has a very impressive history, however that is irrelevant to this thread. So lets not make off topic comments just because you have that irresistible urge.

It did not fit our plan, so we rejected it and we briefed the Americans. Thats how it should work, this is not a comment on the F16, so don't let your easily hurt ego get hurt over a non issue. Thanks.

Ture and besides the Rafale the only real multi role fighter that is combat proven and is good in A2A and A2G. Without F16s in PAFs service and the limited future potential, as well as ToT, the F16 might had good chances to fulfill IAF requirements. It might be old, but still is a capable fighter and shouldn't be underestimated.

 

[TVVELVEMO$]

It is a tad bit short sighted decision. When a country buys a weapon system worth $11-21 Billions it hopes to establish a long term partnership with the seller nation because without such a partnership you end up with some pricey widgets.
Once Europeans begin to induct JSF F-35 Lightening II, the future of Typhoon will be eclipsed. Moreover I remind readers here that Typhoon requires US technology. My views on Rafale are already documented.
LM could not offer F-35 to India way back when the RFPs went out .....because F-35 will not be available to second tier nations until 2018 and beyond. I believe Indians wanted a platform on a tighter schedule.. thus F-16 IN !
One last thing, French have recently slowed the pace of procurement on Rafale due to costs. It would be interesting to see how they ramp up for Indians. Perhaps they will be nimbler(sic) than with their Mirage 2000-5 upgrade project which will see India getting back her jets by the end of this decade!!!! oopsie! Mon Dieu!