IAF bans beards for muslims

[Prodigy17]

Hey hindustanis, it is always better to read the thread before repeating the dead logic ad nauseam. so thats your only answer, since it is compulsory for sikhs and not compulsory for muslims so they are right in doing what they are doing...............................

Here are some questions to stimulate the dead brain cells of few........

1. In islam it is not compulsory but a tradition of Prophet which is wiedely followed. So its a matter of choice..... why that choice is not being granted in an "allegedly" secular country where every one is supposedly allowed to follow their religion???????????

2. Some wise guys said that beard is hinderance for pilots in gas mask integration. Even PAF doesn't allow that...... OK, but they forgot to mention that an airforce has only 2 to 3% pilots on its strength and main bulk is in ground branches. PAF doesn't prohibit ground personnel from keeping beard. So are many airforces around the world not prohibiting ground people from keeping beard. Why then IAF.../?????????

3. Before some of you jump to say uniformity is the reason............. may i remind those who refer to PAF, that keeping beards in PAF has not affected uniformity of PAF, then how will it affect the uniformity of IAF????????? particularly when a group of Sikhs is seen sporting the beard within same organization.?????????????????????? Same is the case with AFs around the world who allow beards in ground branches.

4. Some people argued that if muslims are allowed then Hindus will come up with their own (in their words) "funny" religious traditions. My question will be, why are you trying to impose your fears on other religions???? is that what your secularism is about?????? not allowing religious freedom to people because you fear that your own co-religionists will come up with funny traditions????????? is that the headache of muslims to sacrifice their religious practices????????????????????Hypocrisy and bigotry indeed but by hindustan and hindus...............

5. Last and most important question, which all hindustani members have successfully avoided till now, how will the beard affect "Security"??????? Please see the IAF and government press releases, both cite uniformity and "Security" as a reason for this decision. Can anyone please enlighten us on this one because there is deafening silence from our (otherwise very active) respected hindustani counterparts on such difficult issues. Is it the security of bearded muslims which is threatened by hindu fanatics in the armed forces or is it the force as a whole threatened by the mere existence of bearded muslims????????????????? Must answer this question, if you are interested in replying to this thread. Let's see, how many gather courage to take the bull by the horn....................

 

[TOPGUN]

I wonder how many Muslim pilots are in the IAF and how many muslim personal are there in the IAF ??

 

[Amanpuneet Singh]

Hey hindustanis, it is always better to read the thread before repeating the dead logic ad nauseam. so thats your only answer, since it is compulsory for sikhs and not compulsory for muslims so they are right in doing what they are doing...............................

Here are some questions to stimulate the dead brain cells of few........

1. In islam it is not compulsory but a tradition of Prophet which is wiedely followed. So its a matter of choice..... why that choice is not being granted in an "allegedly" secular country where every one is supposedly allowed to follow their religion???????????

Tomorrow if someone come with choice that he only wants to work in underwear now will secular countary India have to allow it coz India use secular and freedom with it , i hope this answer give some shocks to Grey matter.

 

[AjnabiZ]

heh heh,

is it mandatory for muslims to keep beards? NO

@fateh71, If you are ignorant of Islam, its better to keep silence rather then spreading misinformation.

I will post answer by a Scholar

=============
Question : I am in the army and I always shave my beard, because I am forced to do so. Is this haraam or not?

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

It is not permissible to shave the beard, because according to saheeh ahaadeeth, the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) commanded us to leave it alone and let it grow. He (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told us that by leaving it alone and letting it grow, we would be differing from the Magians and mushrikeen, and he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) had a thick beard. It is obligatory for us to obey the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him); following his example with regard to attitude and actions is one of the best deeds, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Indeed in the Messenger of Allaah (Muhammad) you have a good example to follow [al-Ahzaab 33:21]

“And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad) gives you, take it; and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it) [al-Hashr :7]

“And let those who oppose the Messenger’s (Muhammad’s) commandment (i.e. his Sunnah legal ways, orders, acts of worship, statements) (among the sects) beware, lest some Fitnah (disbelief, trials, afflictions, earthquakes, killing, overpowered by a tyrant) should befall them or a painful torment be inflicted on them [al-Noor 24:63]

Imitating the kuffaar is one of the gravest of evil actions, and is one of the causes of being gathered with them on the Day of Resurrection, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said,

“Whoever imitates a people is one of them.​

” If you are doing a job where you are required to shave your beard, do not obey them with regard to that, because the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said,

“There is no obedience to any created being if it involves disobedience to the Creator.” ​

If they oblige you to shave your beard, then leave that job where you are being forced to do something that angers Allaah. There are many other ways of earning a living, may Allaah be praised. Whoever gives up something for the sake of Allaah, Allaah will compensate him with something better than that.

May Allaah help you and make things easier for you. May He make us and you steadfast in His religion.

Majmoo’ Fataawa wa Maqaalaat Mutanawwi’ah li Samaahat al-Shaykh al-‘Allaamah ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him), vol. 8, p. 376

But if your military service is obligatory and they take you by force and shave your beard, then the sin is on them and not on you at all. And Allaah knows best.
Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

General Ruling on Shaving the beard:

Question : What is the ruling on shaving the beard or removing part of it?

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

Shaving the beard is haraam because of the saheeh ahaadeeth that clearly state this, and because of the general application of texts that forbid resembling the kuffaar.

One of these reports is the hadeeth of Ibn ‘Umar who said that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

“Be different from the mushrikeen: let your beards grow and trim your moustaches.” ​

According to another report:

“Trim your moustaches and let your beards grow.” ​

There are other hadeeth which convey the same meaning, which is to leave the beard as it is and let it grow long, without shaving, plucking or cutting any part of it.

Ibn Hazm reported that there was scholarly consensus that it is an obligation (fard) to trim the moustache and let the beard grow. He quoted a number of ahaadeeth as evidence, including the hadeeth of Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) quoted above, and the hadeeth of Zayd ibn Arqam in which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

“Whoever does not remove any of his moustache is not one of us.”
(Classed as saheeh by al-Tirmidhi). ​

Is it haraam (to shave it)?
Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

“The Qur’aan, Sunnah and ijmaa’ (scholarly consensus) all indicate that we must differ from the kuffaar in all aspects and not imitate them, because imitating them on the outside will make us imitate them in their bad deeds and habits, and even in beliefs, which will result in befriending them in our hearts, just as loving them in our hearts will lead to imitating them on the outside. ​

Al-Tirmidhi reported that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said,

“He is not one of us who imitates people other than us. Do not imitate the Jews and Christians.” ​

According to another version:

“Whoever imitates a people is one of them.” (Reported by Imaam Ahmad) ​

‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab rejected the testimony of the person who plucked his beard.

Imaam Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr said in al-Tamheed:

“It is forbidden to shave the beard, and no one does this except men who are effeminate” i.e., those who imitate women. ​

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) had a thick beard (reported by Muslim from Jaabir).

It is not permitted to remove any part of the beard because of the general meaning of the texts which forbid doing so.

Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 5/133

I hope this provides ample evidence.

 

[Amanpuneet Singh]

I wonder how many Muslim pilots are in the IAF and how many muslim personal are there in the IAF ??

I wonder how many minorities serves in PAF ??Hope to get Answer soon.

 

[DarkStar]

Tomorrow if someone come with choice that he only wants to work in underwear now will secular countary India have to allow it coz India use secular and freedom with it , i hope this answer give some shocks to Grey matter.

This is quite a statement, from someone whose relgion (I'm assuming you might be sikh) dictates a holy underwear (kachha) to be worn at all times.

People in Canada, Uk and Pakistan can walk around with killer blades called karpans just because they claim it is part of their religious duty.

What hypocrisy!!!

 

[TOPGUN]

I wonder how many minorities serves in PAF ??Hope to get Answer soon.

Ok smarty paints ! i was just asking a question if u cant answer it in a decent and matture manner then i suggest u shut it! since it seems like you have no answer furthemore, from wat i know Christians & some parsi's are in PAF other then muslim's offcourse now how many exactly i dont know since iam not your ferry GOD mother! perhaps i should have asked if there are any muslim personal in IAF

 

[Amanpuneet Singh]

This is quite a statement, from someone whose relgion (I'm assuming you might be sikh) dictates a holy underwear (kachha) to be worn at all times.

People in Canada, Uk and Pakistan can walk around with killer blades called karpans just because they claim it is part of their religious duty.

What hypocrasy!!!

there is no hypocrisy there are just 3-6 inch blade u got same chance to be killed by them as much by kitchen knife and for ur information in armed forces sikhs have to tied their beard and the muslims personal who wanted to keep beard was asking for it to keep open that why IAF banned it first time then got it approved from supreme court.

 

[DarkStar]

Even a knife an inch and a half long can kill with one stroke, there are many organs not far away from the skin.

Hell, in West London, I have been attacked with boys wearing huge studded karras, and have got a scar to prove it.

If it is as simple as tying your beard, there could have been an order saying that pilots can wear a beard, but must tie them when boarding an aircraft. Then muslims could have had the choice of doing so.

But it seems making any sort social gesture which can be seen as being a 'concession' to the muslim minority in Bharat, is politically dangerous.

 

[Amanpuneet Singh]

Ok smarty paints ! i was just asking a question if u cant answer it in a decent and matture manner then i suggest u shut it! since it seems like you have no answer furthemore, from wat i know Christians & some parsi's are in PAF other then muslim's offcourse now how many exactly i dont know since iam not your ferry GOD mother! perhaps i should have asked if there are any muslim personal in IAF

ok to answer ur question there were about 5% mulisms in air force according to CAG report in 2003.

 

[blain2]

I wonder how many minorities serves in PAF ??Hope to get Answer soon.

Christians & Parsis for sure. Don't know of any Hindus in the PAF officer cadre, however in the Army we have officers belonging to the Christian, Zorastrian, Hindu and Sikh faiths.

 

[notsuperstitious]

@fateh71, If you are ignorant of Islam, its better to keep silence rather then spreading misinformation.

I will post answer by a Scholar

.

Ajnabi, now u HAD to presume i did not already check. well i did. i can also show opinions supporting my view. this divergence of view itself is sufficient to prove my point.

Pakistan Link - Letter & Opinion

i'm not spreading any misinformation, the thred and all ur friend ARE, that for some reason in india sikhs get a prefential treatment... and then when it comes to khalistan movement, the same people will cry tears of blood abt the terrible treatment sikhs get here

basically, i don't trust ur concern to be genuine, secondly u r free to bash our secularism as u don't understand the S of it, thirdly, we are going to a different place and we don't hope to see u there, so why bother.

 

[Prodigy17]

Hey hindustanis, it is always better to read the thread before repeating the dead logic ad nauseam. so thats your only answer, since it is compulsory for sikhs and not compulsory for muslims so they are right in doing what they are doing...............................

Here are some questions to stimulate the dead brain cells of few........

1. In islam it is not compulsory but a tradition of Prophet which is wiedely followed. So its a matter of choice..... why that choice is not being granted in an "allegedly" secular country where every one is supposedly allowed to follow their religion???????????

2. Some wise guys said that beard is hinderance for pilots in gas mask integration. Even PAF doesn't allow that...... OK, but they forgot to mention that an airforce has only 2 to 3% pilots on its strength and main bulk is in ground branches. PAF doesn't prohibit ground personnel from keeping beard. So are many airforces around the world not prohibiting ground people from keeping beard. Why then IAF.../?????????

3. Before some of you jump to say uniformity is the reason............. may i remind those who refer to PAF, that keeping beards in PAF has not affected uniformity of PAF, then how will it affect the uniformity of IAF????????? particularly when a group of Sikhs is seen sporting the beard within same organization.?????????????????????? Same is the case with AFs around the world who allow beards in ground branches.

4. Some people argued that if muslims are allowed then Hindus will come up with their own (in their words) "funny" religious traditions. My question will be, why are you trying to impose your fears on other religions???? is that what your secularism is about?????? not allowing religious freedom to people because you fear that your own co-religionists will come up with funny traditions????????? is that the headache of muslims to sacrifice their religious practices????????????????????Hypocrisy and bigotry indeed but by hindustan and hindus...............

5. Last and most important question, which all hindustani members have successfully avoided till now, how will the beard affect "Security"??????? Please see the IAF and government press releases, both cite uniformity and "Security" as a reason for this decision. Can anyone please enlighten us on this one because there is deafening silence from our (otherwise very active) respected hindustani counterparts on such difficult issues. Is it the security of bearded muslims which is threatened by hindu fanatics in the armed forces or is it the force as a whole threatened by the mere existence of bearded muslims????????????????? Must answer this question, if you are interested in replying to this thread. Let's see, how many gather courage to take the bull by the horn....................

Stop beating about the bush............ I am still waiting for answers. Is there any indian member who can reply to all my questions particularly the last one related to security.

 

[Vinod2070]

Even a knife an inch and a half long can kill with one stroke, there are many organs not far away from the skin.

Hell, in West London, I have been attacked with boys wearing huge studded karras, and have got a scar to prove it.

If it is as simple as tying your beard, there could have been an order saying that pilots can wear a beard, but must tie them when boarding an aircraft. Then muslims could have had the choice of doing so.

But it seems making any sort social gesture which can be seen as being a 'concession' to the muslim minority in Bharat, is politically dangerous.

You are trying to take it the wrong way.

India has made this concession to the only minority whose religion mandates not cutting hair. As simple as that.

All the rest don't have the permission. Why is it being made a Muslim issue!

Even PAF doesn't allow it's Muslim pilots to keep the beard so it is definitely not anti-Islam.

Or is it?

 

[Contrarian]

Christians & Parsis for sure. Don't know of any Hindus in the PAF officer cadre, however in the Army we have officers belonging to the Christian, Zorastrian, Hindu and Sikh faiths.

If im not mistaken the first Sikh officer or soldier(im forgetting) joined the PA in the last couple of years? I remember reading the article on this board itself.