I think i need to give up on Pakistan.

[Raja.Pakistani]

I think he means strategic location for the US & NATO. And not to forget access to warm waters for Russia & China

dont troll here

 

[Marwari]

dont troll here

I'm not


don't feel so insecure.

 

[acetophenol]

Brothers, i used to be a regular poster on this forum. As i was glad to find a place where i can have a intellegent conversation about Pakistan and get a insight look into Pakistan from the people. This forum is incredible due to the various nationality opinions, you have the Indians, the Bengalis, Pakistanis, Chinese, Iranians, Sri Lankans, etc.

But

Ever since i found out OBL was killed in Pakistan, i gave up on Pakistan. The reason why no matter what you have to look at in two ways.

1: The USA invaded our soverignty. It was close enough to attack our capital and there would have been nothing we can do to stop them. For God sake they passed our defence (the only thing i thoguht Pakistan was good with).

2: Our Army, ISI and goverment allowed them to do this. Meaning everything that is needed to make a country great has turned againist it's people. I don't know what war game is happening but 34,000 lives have been lost. It's not just numbers those were Humans, those were people with lifes who were taken away.

I am fed up with conspiracy theories or bs made up, i want the truth. What is going on? I am honestly suprise Pakistan is still alive now. It should have disentragrated in the 1st year, but we survived. But that was when their was another threat, now the threat is in our own borders.

I am afraid one day i will watch the news and i sucide bomber, bombed the clifton child playground in Karachi,purposly killing little innocent boys and girls who have yet to make a life. I can't take all the violence happening in my home country. What the hell i am supposed to do, i can't support it, i am useless, all i am doing is typing in comments but wtf is that really?

I would say rthese to the following nations.

China - Become a super-power, bring the power back to the East and please help us your our only hope. It's because of you guys Pakistan is still standing.

India - Don't let Pakistan bring you down. We were once Brothers, you are the best of us, you have mutured and realise violence leads nowhere. People of India keep your work help restore the honour South Asia once had.

Bangladesh - Sorry for what we did in 1971. Your idependence has showed the world how a nation is meant to rise, continue on and achieve greatness.

And All Muslim nations Goverments - Their is nothing Islamic in what you do, strach the name of Islam from your countries. You slaghter your own people, sell bllood for oil and destroyed us, may Allah show you mercy to the crimes you have committed because you are gonna need it.

that was a nice post man!

Don't worry dude,every nation has its own problems. Pakistan will make out of this mess. As a matter of fact,many of pakistan's achievements go unnoticed these days. Do not forget the achievements of your nation. Just don't give up! Just don't get upset!

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

I'm not


don't feel so insecure.

hahah kid you are kidding

 

[Awesome]

good bye, we dont need you

And the World don't need you. If you were to die in a bomb blast today in Pakistan, they won't even reveal your name cos you are worth nothing to them.

The operative word being "giving up". All these 'fantastic' countries you live in and praise are not that way because they had people who gave up on it when the going got tough. In most armies of the world desertion is often seen as notch below treason, hence you can berate the hopelessness of Hammy and how his life is so meaningless being a Pakistani that if he dies it won't be reported, but you know it and we all know it, that on his death bed, he would die with a clear conscience that he stood by his country through the good and the bad.

Standing by your country through its worst times, is in itself a reward.

 

[Kompromat]

The operative word being "giving up". All these 'fantastic' countries you live in and praise are not that way because they had people who gave up on it when the going got tough. In most armies of the world desertion is often seen as notch below treason, hence you can berate the hopelessness of Hammy and how his life is so meaningless being a Pakistani that if he dies it won't be reported, but you know it and we all know it, that on his death bed, he would die with a clear conscience that he stood by his country through the good and the bad.

Standing by your country through its worst times, is in itself a reward.

All great nations have had their reasonable part of regretful history , this is what makes you tough and resilient and drives you to stand up against the odds no matter what lies ahead.

Great nations were formed by those who hold on to the vision and the determination of their forefathers & not by those who "gave up". Asim i remember talking to a good mate of mine from Pakistan. I asked him "What the hell is going on anyway" ? -- he replied just one word "Filtering". It struck me and i asked him to explain.

He replied "History and the God almighty is filtering this Nation for a good reason of raising a vibrant & great nation out of it". Many would either be "flushed out" or will "give up" and the only remaining ones would be the "chosen ones" to carry the torch ahead and those will form a team which will turn this country around in all respects. It may sound too metaphorical but this is what exactly is happening he said.

So for people like Time Assassin its a farewell -- hopefully he would regret & feel nostalgic when he would be on his deathbed 60 years down the track in some hospital in the UK.

Regards:

 

[CallsignAlzaeem]

Giving up on Pakistan? Wallah somebody said to me ''Now the events will unfold which will decide whether you are with Pakistan or not'' Believe me if we counter attack USA or NATO tomorrow, You will be with us again.Pakistan Zindabad

 

[venu309]

Brothers, i used to be a regular poster on this forum. As i was glad to find a place where i can have a intellegent conversation about Pakistan and get a insight look into Pakistan from the people. This forum is incredible due to the various nationality opinions, you have the Indians, the Bengalis, Pakistanis, Chinese, Iranians, Sri Lankans, etc.

But

Ever since i found out OBL was killed in Pakistan, i gave up on Pakistan. The reason why no matter what you have to look at in two ways.

1: The USA invaded our soverignty. It was close enough to attack our capital and there would have been nothing we can do to stop them. For God sake they passed our defence (the only thing i thoguht Pakistan was good with).

2: Our Army, ISI and goverment allowed them to do this. Meaning everything that is needed to make a country great has turned againist it's people. I don't know what war game is happening but 34,000 lives have been lost. It's not just numbers those were Humans, those were people with lifes who were taken away.

I am fed up with conspiracy theories or bs made up, i want the truth. What is going on? I am honestly suprise Pakistan is still alive now. It should have disentragrated in the 1st year, but we survived. But that was when their was another threat, now the threat is in our own borders.

I am afraid one day i will watch the news and i sucide bomber, bombed the clifton child playground in Karachi,purposly killing little innocent boys and girls who have yet to make a life. I can't take all the violence happening in my home country. What the hell i am supposed to do, i can't support it, i am useless, all i am doing is typing in comments but wtf is that really?

I would say rthese to the following nations.

China - Become a super-power, bring the power back to the East and please help us your our only hope. It's because of you guys Pakistan is still standing.

India - Don't let Pakistan bring you down. We were once Brothers, you are the best of us, you have mutured and realise violence leads nowhere. People of India keep your work help restore the honour South Asia once had.

Bangladesh - Sorry for what we did in 1971. Your idependence has showed the world how a nation is meant to rise, continue on and achieve greatness.

And All Muslim nations Goverments - Their is nothing Islamic in what you do, strach the name of Islam from your countries. You slaghter your own people, sell bllood for oil and destroyed us, may Allah show you mercy to the crimes you have committed because you are gonna need it.

That's a beautiful & heart wrenching post, hats off to you.

I think in these troubled days we should help Pakistan recover & get back on to her feet instead of pushing her further into deep trouble. Also people with your kind of matured thinking, should bring about peace & harmony in the region. I think we all should strive to make our subcontinent a peaceful, beautiful & prosperous place to live, atleast for our future generation.

 

[JonAsad]

Nonsense-

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

 

[Markus]

There is nothing to give up on Pakistan.

Pakistan was doing fine.

Stand united and beat the terrorists at their game and all will be well!

And we (India) surely hope that they succeed in that.

A Pakistan going down has the capability to pull down India with itself.

 

[Burger Boy]

 

[Burger Boy]

Have hope for the future.

☾☆ پاکستان زنداباد☾☆

 

[EjazR]

There is still hope, if PAkistanis can look back an internalise the vision of who they think as their founding fathers. Jinnah had said that he wanted relations between India and Pakistan as US and Cannada.

But Iqbal was more specific on the role of North west Indian muslims. Not the distorted and hypocritical vision of Islamic caliphate and Two NAtion theory given by the Zia era.

In his 1930 Speech, Allama Iqbal said
Thus, possessing full opportunity of development within the body politic of India, the North-West Indian Muslims will prove the best defenders of India against a foreign invasion, be that invasion one of ideas or of bayonets. The Punjab with 56 percent Muslim population supplies 54 percent of the total combatant troops in the Indian Army, and if the 19,000 Gurkhas recruited from the independent State of Nepal are excluded, the Punjab contingent amounts to 62 percent of the whole Indian Army. This percentage does not take into account nearly 6,000 combatants supplied to the Indian Army by the North-West Frontier Province and Baluchistan. From this you can easily calculate the possibilities of North-West Indian Muslims in regard to the defence of India against foreign aggression. The Right Hon'ble Mr. Srinivasa Sastri thinks that the Muslim demand for the creation of autonomous Muslim states along the north-west border is actuated by a desire "to acquire means of exerting pressure in emergencies on the Government of India." I may frankly tell him that the Muslim demand is not actuated by the kind of motive he imputes to us;
In fact, he has a full section on Indian defence (that included present day Pakistan and Bangladesh) and discussed how India should defend itself. An early strategic thinker of India if you will.

He mentions the importance of the Indian Army being under civilian control agreeing with the Nehru report in this regard. Dismissing the argument given by the biased Simon report that India can't defend itself because it is divided by caste and religion, that it does not have competent officers and that the security of India is of paramount British concern and that smugly states that THEY are its neutral guardians. He says

[[7c]] Now I venture to ask: who is responsible for the present state of things? Is it due to some inherent incapacity of our martial races, or to the slowness of the process of military training? The military capacity of our martial races is undeniable. The process of military training may be slow as compared to other processes of human training. I am no military expert to judge this matter. But as a layman I feel that the argument, as stated, assumes the process to be practically endless. This means perpetual bondage for India, and makes it all the more necessary that the Frontier Army, as suggested by the Nehru Report, be entrusted to the charge of a committee of defence, the personnel of which may be settled by mutual understanding.

[[7d]] Again, it is significant that the Simon Report has given extraordinary importance to the question of India's land frontier, but has made only passing references to its naval position. India has doubtless had to face invasions from her land frontier; but it is obvious that her present masters took possession of her on account of her defenceless sea coast. A self-governing and free India will, in these days, have to take greater care of her sea coast than [of her] land frontiers.

[[7e]] I have no doubt that if a Federal Government is established, Muslim federal States will willingly agree, for purposes of India's defence, to the creation of neutral Indian military and naval forces. Such a neutral military force for the defence of India was a reality in the days of Mughal rule. Indeed in the time of Akbar the Indian frontier was, on the whole, defended by armies officered by Hindu generals. I am perfectly sure that the scheme for a neutral Indian army, based on a federated India, will intensify Muslim patriotic feeling, and finally set at rest the suspicion, if any, of Indian Muslims joining Muslims from beyond the frontier in the event of an invasion.

The committee of defence referred here in the Nehru report basically refers to administration of the army under the authority of an elected Indian Legislature.

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In short, the contours of security relations between present day Pakistan are in complete opposite of what Allama Iqbal had articulated. IMHO, this is a fundamental reason why Pakistan is in crisis. It is off balance and out of its equilibrium. And allying with the US or China or Russia will not help if the fundamentals are not changed.

This also means fundamentally rethinking ideas of supporting groups like LeT and JuD. The role of the Army in Pakistani civilian affairs. And most importantly where should PAkistan's stategic alliance be. A SAARC security umbrella where Pakistan and other SAARC countries are partners would be much more beneficial to the security of Pakistan than an alliance with the US or China. Interestingly, the vision of Iqbal not only pertained to the security of present day India, but also present day Pakistan. The only question is will decision makers in Pakistan listen or not.

 

[gaurish]

The thread indicated the growing sense of insecure feelings and the lack of confidence amoung pakistani youth... Well as an Indianthe image we get about pakistan is that it is too much obssesed with India and was too much obssesed since the partition...

Well my pakistani friends dont jump to my throat for this post... If pakistan had taken the path of devolopement and growth and had not get involved in Kashmir it would had been a succesfull nation and also a fully devoloped country... The focus on kashmnir and India eroded Pakistan and its economy....

Dont know the exact truth but the funding and support to anti India groups also din pay much returns ...

When a child is born in India or Pakistan he is thought to hate the neighbour and that has been going on for a past 6 decades so i dont know how much relations will improve of our both countries in future but i don see much of a hope atleat for next 2 decades ... The rivalry between India and pakistan has hurt Pakistan more than India ...

I hope this rivalry Ends and both our countries and our countrymen live a happy life together...

 

[JonAsad]

The thread indicated the growing sense of insecure feelings and the lack of confidence amoung pakistani youth... Well as an Indianthe image we get about pakistan is that it is too much obssesed with India and was too much obssesed since the partition...

Dont generalize please- basing your opinion on one or two weak individuals is not right- Pakistan is better off with them- Only true patriots can- and will change Pakistan- Khasis and pretenders cant- These opportunists are like the Mir Sadiqs and Jaffers of this time- Good thing is they are only few-