I rode China's superfast bullet train that could go from New York to Chicago in 4.5 hours — and it s

[SQ8]

In the US, if I want to go from New York to Chicago, I would book a JetBlue flight.

Railway system is different between US and China, US developed their railway system since late 1800s to early 1900s (yes, you heard me right, 1800s) and today the American city pretty much using the same track they did since that time. Take NY subway for an example, there were tons of proposal regarding expansion of the Subway system since 1980s I think all but 1 did not come thru in reality (If my memory serve me right, it's the IRT line extension to LaGuadia), mostly due to cost and residence objection. New York Subway stays pretty much the same from form 1920s.

Any type of land form transport is discouraged in the US, not just railway. To do that, the government have to acquire many land just to build stuff over or under it. Which make it not at all fiscally feasible to do.

China on the other hand, develop the city with railway line as one of the recent development, the country itself is not as old (Started in 1949 and only start developing in 1980s) lands and facilities can design with ease to couple with the land base development, put into the fact that most land price in China are cheap, its a lot easier to develop a railway base transport structure.

Comparing the 2 is like comparing apple and oranges, a moot point.

That being said- our infrastructure is crumbling; roads are utterly disgraceful and seem like a third world country- the exception being toll roads. Even those seem to have patchwork all over. Just a quick drive from detroit towards Canada and down Niagra shows how badly the standards of asphalt type and use have dropped. Traffic management is somewhat better with the street systems but that too requires good roads to support.
As for flying- any other color than white is dangerous for your health. And if flying spirit airlines, just approaching the aircraft is dangerous.

There is a need for better service both in the air and on yhe ground, mega corporations are hurting the economy since that is reducing competition and the need for one upping service standards.

 

[SorryNotSorry]

That being said- our infrastructure is crumbling; roads are utterly disgraceful and seem like a third world country- the exception being toll roads. Even those seem to have patchwork all over. Just a quick drive from detroit towards Canada and down Niagra shows how badly the standards of asphalt type and use have dropped. Traffic management is somewhat better with the street systems but that too requires good roads to support.
As for flying- any other color than white is dangerous for your health. And if flying spirit airlines, just approaching the aircraft is dangerous.

There is a need for better service both in the air and on yhe ground, mega corporations are hurting the economy since that is reducing competition and the need for one upping service standards.

Niagra and Detroit are pretty pathetic. But there’s more than just infrastructure problems, theres a lot worrisome issues there.

 

[jhungary]

That being said- our infrastructure is crumbling; roads are utterly disgraceful and seem like a third world country- the exception being toll roads. Even those seem to have patchwork all over. Just a quick drive from detroit towards Canada and down Niagra shows how badly the standards of asphalt type and use have dropped. Traffic management is somewhat better with the street systems but that too requires good roads to support.

Well, that's the politician problem, really.

The problem with our crappy infrastructure is that people only looking on what will make them money today. One of my friend used to work with a NYC borough, and he told me that the bureaucracy is basically infinite within those borough administration. People won't do anything unless it either benefit them themselves, or benefit their image, so they can be elected.

Ad sadly, unless that strip of road is in any way, sort or form benefit the county, or themselves, they wouldn't do jack shit about it.

As for flying- any other color than white is dangerous for your health. And if flying spirit airlines, just approaching the aircraft is dangerous.

Flying aren't that bad, I understand it will be a hassle for you. But well, there are pretty much nothing I can say other than I don't think I can get by without flying, I flew everywhere.

There is a need for better service both in the air and on yhe ground, mega corporations are hurting the economy since that is reducing competition and the need for one upping service standards.

I am all for both, but I don't see we need to get something we do not need, and in this case, I don't think we need to build a HSR, which I considered a novelty in the US. I do think we need a better suburban train network and commuter train network in pretty much all of the States.

 

[SQ8]

Well, that's the politician problem, really.

The problem with our crappy infrastructure is that people only looking on what will make them money today. One of my friend used to work with a NYC borough, and he told me that the bureaucracy is basically infinite within those borough administration. People won't do anything unless it either benefit them themselves, or benefit their image, so they can be elected.

Ad sadly, unless that strip of road is in any way, sort or form benefit the county, or themselves, they wouldn't do jack shit about it.



Flying aren't that bad, I understand it will be a hassle for you. But well, there are pretty much nothing I can say other than I don't think I can get by without flying, I flew everywhere.



I am all for both, but I don't see we need to get something we do not need, and in this case, I don't think we need to build a HSR, which I considered a novelty in the US. I do think we need a better suburban train network and commuter train network in pretty much all of the States.

Well, really isn’t for me.. apart from my last name my skin glows white and I have blue eyes.. and impeccable english.. so I blend right in. Then I have the TSA pre check so .. its all fun.

Apart from O Hare.. that place is utter poop.

Public transport sucks because the automotive and oil lobbies keep it that way.

 

[jhungary]

Well, really isn’t for me.. apart from my last name my skin glows white and I have blue eyes.. and impeccable english.. so I blend right in. Then I have the TSA pre check so .. its all fun.

I will have to say TSA is quite substandard to most European Airport Authority. Used to be okay if I travel with my uniform, but in general, I think they treat everybody shit and slightly Islamophobic.

My wife used to work for Qantas and SAS, she know about airport staff......

Apart from O Hare.. that place is utter poop.

I think any part of Chicago is utter poop, they are like New Jersey or downtown Philly to me, I don't usually go to Chicago....

Public transport sucks because the automotive and oil lobbies keep it that way.

Yeah, we all sold our soul to those people a long time ago, I don't think I can live by without my car...…

 

[beijingwalker]

Do you think US cities need a better subway so they don't always derail or run into each other

 

[saltyashell]

The author compared the Acela Express (passenger rail) with China's HSR not with the older lines which serves as America's cargo transport backbone. The Acela Express line first started operation in 2000, and the line was newly built or upgraded for the Acela Express.

This is not an apples and oranges comparison as they are both HSR lines. Another apples vs apples is directly comparing China's aviation industry vs America's aviation industry.

One can argue about the reasons behind why US won't expand its HSR network but the fact remains that China developed a better and cheaper (for the consumers) HSR system. Apples to apples comparison. We are not comparing the overall mid to long distance passenger transport between China and America.

An overall comparison of mid to long range passenger transport between China and America:
You mentioned "In the US, if I want to go from New York to Chicago, I would book a JetBlue flight."

A JetBlue ticket from New York (JFK) to Chicago (ORD) would cost you $125 at the cheapest for a non-refundable ticket. A refundable ticket costs $325 at the cheapest. The distance is 1180 km. The price for an economy ticket also escalates above $300 as it gets later into the day.
View attachment 473759

Beijing to Shanghai line a distance of 1318 km will cost you $88 for a second class ticket which is comparable to a air plane economy class. Prices remain constant throughout the day.
View attachment 473760

Having ridden the HSR in china, i would say its nice but the finances side has to be carefully examined.
Except for the shanghai beijing route , all other chinese HSR lines are running in operational loss. The chinese government is basically subsidising the HSR travel for its passengers and for how long can this continue ?
Either the prices will have to be raised or the speeds reduced. Higher speeds equals to more energy consumption.
I doubt the US government or any US company will agree to a loss making venture , since this is a recurring expense.
And i am reffering to operating profit , recovering investment costs is not even in the picture.

 

[seesonic]

Don't be a cheap arse, this is what I paid you

View attachment 473928

You can at least afford $2 right?

Wait, you can't lol....



好過一個姓盧呀



NorthEast New England region is probably the only success in the whole US rail network. Because of the travel frequency and passenger counts. Otherwise railway in the US is solely for commuter, novelty travel need or freight operation.



Depending on if you have a good regional airline system in your country.

In the UK, I think it was half/half.

There are not too many major outgoing hub in the UK, you get Heathrow, Gatwick, Manchester and Stadsted, but it wouldn't help because 3 of those 4 in London (or Greater London region), which mean every traveller who need to travel by air would either need to take on charter flight from your own regional airport or have to get to London somehow before you can make a travel. That connection is a time waster.

In other part of Europe, where regional hub service are better would have seen a better distribution of regional customer travel to major hub (like how Lufthansa distribute their region/commuter customer), then air travel is indeed making trains obsolete

@jhungary mate, the moment you state something contrary to China centric view, you become an Indian.
Totally concur with you, all the HSR networks have been built in high density area across the world. Only exception is India, who has been sleeping when comes to infrastructure. It saddens me, India should have hopped on to HSR bandwagon at least 20 years ago.

Rail travel will always be price sensitive so you need ROI as billions need to be spent before making a cent. Even hundred years ago when Yanks were building the subway in New York, they secretly acquired land for this purpose, as you know, if people found out, land prices would have gone through the roof.


Have a good one..

Talking to yourself?

 

[dreamer4eva]

Talking to yourself?

I'm lowly Indian sir, not cool enough to talk to you..

 

[seesonic]

Why are you derailing this thread about great Chinese infra by bringing India into the picture? Calm your tets my Pakistani bud.

On topic: These trains do look fabulous. Let’s see how our pilot project shapes up to be.

Great india. Only democracy like India is capable of doing good to its people. SP2012.

 

[beijingwalker]

Having ridden the HSR in china, i would say its nice but the finances side has to be carefully examined.
Except for the shanghai beijing route , all other chinese HSR lines are running in operational loss. The chinese government is basically subsidising the HSR travel for its passengers and for how long can this continue ?
Either the prices will have to be raised or the speeds reduced. Higher speeds equals to more energy consumption.
I doubt the US government or any US company will agree to a loss making venture , since this is a recurring expense.
And i am reffering to operating profit , recovering investment costs is not even in the picture.

I don't know if your claim is true or not, but HSR greatly enchanced China's connectivity and integration of different regions of China, the wealth it generated can be seen by the fast development across all regions in China, the benefit of it is not the train fares, it's enomous gains across all industries all over China.

 

[SorryNotSorry]

Great india. Only democracy like India is capable of doing good to its people. SP2012.

Something is wrong with you. Bye

 

[saltyashell]

I don't know if your claim is true or not, but HSR greatly enchanced China's connectivity and integration of different regions of China, the wealth it generated can be seen by the fast development across all regions in China, the benefit of it is not the train fares, it's enomous gains across all industries all over China.

"China's high-speed rail hits the 20,000 km mark but financial issues persist.
Posted on Sep 14, 2016

China has reinforced its position as the global leader in the deployment of high-speed rail by opening a new line linking Zhengzhou with Xuzhou and in doing so took the nations’ total superfast track over 20,000km. As a point of comparison, the country with the second most extensive high-speed network is Spain with 3,100km of operational track, Japan come in third with 2,664km with France fourth with 2,036km. Such is their dominance in the world rankings, that there’s more high-speed rail track in China than in the rest of the world combined. This new line 360km, connects the west with two major north-south lines, helping cut travel time between west and east. But the picture isn’t entirely positive for Chinese high-speed as a major $44.91 billion bond issue is launched to shore up its domestic transport projects.

Local press reports quote Huang Xin of China Railway Corporation (CRC) are stating that first 10,000 km took 11 years and has since doubled in only three years, and is expected to nearly double again by 2025 and reach 45,000 km in 2030.

In 2015, China's high-speed trains carried 961 million passengers, up 237 percent from the number in 2011 . And the rapid development is changing how people, work, live and commute. A house in the country and a job in the city is now more attainable than ever.

In the next few years, it is planned that trains at a speed of over 500 km per hour will run on the Beijing-Shenyang line. In mid-July, two trains travelling at 420 km per hour in opposite directions passed each other on parallel tracks, fastest event of its kind.

To hear more about and meet the decison makers leading the Asian High-Speed revolution book your FREE ticket to in Bangkok, 1st - 2nd December 2016 today!

However, despite these eye-catching headline figures, this week reported plans by CRC to issue 300 billion yuan ($44.91 billion) of bonds, as the country boosts up investment in infrastructure to support a slowing domestic economy. Some analysts have raised concerns of the heavy borrowing made by the CRC. Two-thirds of the funds are to be focsed for railway construction projects while CRC will use the rest for debt restructuring.

Only the Beijing-Shanghai link, which opened in 2011, is profitable, the rest of the country’s high-speed railway lines are loss-making according to the railway authority quoted in the Reuters report.

China has found customers for its high-speed trains Indonesia, Russia, Iran and India and is actively seeking further opportunities abroad. This foreign investment, and the restructuring debt are all aimed at making the bullet train lines become profitable and it become a sustainable and rational business model."
Cant link due to some issues.

 

[Dungeness]

Having ridden the HSR in china, i would say its nice but the finances side has to be carefully examined.
Except for the shanghai beijing route , all other chinese HSR lines are running in operational loss. The chinese government is basically subsidising the HSR travel for its passengers and for how long can this continue ?
Either the prices will have to be raised or the speeds reduced. Higher speeds equals to more energy consumption.
I doubt the US government or any US company will agree to a loss making venture , since this is a recurring expense.
And i am reffering to operating profit , recovering investment costs is not even in the picture.

Well, that's the beauty of Chinese system where the government owns everything. They make up their loss on HSR investment with the increased land value along HSR lines. This is unique to China, and the rest of world don't seem to quite comprehend.

 

[jhungary]

Well, that's the beauty of Chinese system where the government owns everything. They make up their loss on HSR investment with the increased land value along HSR lines. This is unique to China, and the rest of world don't seem to quite comprehend.

This is how most of the country work actually, not just unique in China.

In fact, I would say this is how most country subsidize their public transport.