I don't like Zia-ul-Haq... but this interview was amazing

[!eon]

Your text is too long to read thoroughly, and I would not sit tight read it thoroughly as I don't enjoy leisure like you do. What I have skimmed through and understood, "Firearms should not be in hands of civilians."

It's not being discussed here. If you meant something else, please summarize it.

Fair enough. Let's wargame it in a imaginary future evantuality like 9/11. Let's say in next few months, a catastrophic terrorist attack happens in India where hundreds if not thousands of people are killed, including a few dozen Americans and Europeans. Imran Khan condemns it wholeheartedly. But then evidence starts to pileup that the act was a joint operation by Lashkar e Tayaba an Jaish e Mohammad, in fact cross that, India and US and their media believes that it was done by LET and JEM. And now they are demanding that we actually crack down on Hafiz saeed, Masood Azhar and their complete organizations, not the way we sometimes do but the way we handled TTP. UN passes a unanimous resolution supporting their stance, China does not dare veto it.

What options do you think IK will have. One he can stand up to rest of the world and declines to crackdown on Hafiz saeed and Masood Azhar. Two he can oblige the UN and act on the resolution resulting in a nation wide crackdown on LET and JEM members.

In the first case, best case scenario is that the world will impose crippling economic sanctions on us resulting in a complete economic meltdown. The worst case is that we are subjected to some awesome airstrikes that cripples our military and economy.

In the second case, if the government of PTI obliges the UN, LET and JEM members across the country start targeting the security forces. Now the problem with these organizations is that we have carefully cultivated them a strong following in this country, they themselves with their social welfare projects have created a goodwill among common people, so they will have sympathizers and what do we call them yeah facilitators.

So we'll be looking at another cycle of violence for a decade at-least.

Now in this imaginary situation, would you blame Imran Khan for taking the decision that resulted in such chaos in the country or would you be blaming the geniuses who created and propped these organizations in the first place. If you would blame Imran khan well then I have nothing to add, I respect your views.

But if your answer is the later, then that is the same reason why Zia is held responsible by many people for the bloodshed that followed 9/11.

Here is an excerpt from Andrew Small's book The China-Pakistan Axis: Asia's new Geopolitics, this will give you an idea how our military and its doctrine was different before the arrival of Zia

Anecdotes from the visit of a Pakistani military delegation to Beijing in 1966, as they attempt to replace the equipment that had been lost in the 1965 war, are illustrative:

Zhou Enlai, after enquiring why the Pakistanis only required fourteen days of ammunition from China—“How can a war be fought in that short time?” He went on to probe the generals:

“I would be interested to know if you have prepared the people of Pakistan to operate in the rear of the enemy…I am talking about a People’s Militia being based in every village and town. Since Pakistan lacks an industrial base to replenish supplies, this kind of defence is obviously well-suited to its needs.”

There was a stunned silence among the Generals. The concept of putting arms into the hands of the common man was totally alien to them; in fact, it was deemed a threat to law and order in Pakistan. The notion of a prolonged conflict involving the citizenry of Pakistan was not part of the defence strategy planned by these professional soldiers…When the generals met at my home for dinner that night they appeared to be upset, and one of them said: ‘War is a serious business and should be left to the professionals. Imagine a People’s Militia!…

 

[Sharpshooter12]

Your text is too long to read thoroughly, and I would not sit tight read it thoroughly as I don't enjoy leisure like you do. What I have skimmed through and understood, "Firearms should not be in hands of civilians."

My sincerest apologies sir, I should have considered the fact that you are a busy man.

 

[WarKa DaNG]

HE WAS A GANGSTER

Thats why He fuckedup the USSR

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

" I am not indulging in self praise but Pakistanis are intelligent people" ....( @02:49) so true.


PS: Having said that Zia did to Pakistan what Modi is doing to India.

mody is not even 1% of Zia's brain. Zia was smart he knew how to take care of his Dogs so he was feeding them good till he died. Then we knew the truth about his pets they were Lycaon pictus.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

A thoroughbred ultra nationalist.

 

[Pindi Boy]

HE WAS A GANGSTER

he was a gentleman

 

[313ghazi]

These accusations have a basis.

Zia-ul-Haq was a strategist but he introduced gun culture and Jihadi Salafism to Pakistan. He also propelled Nawaz Sharif to power in order to negate PPPP.

You can't blame the guy, he was suddenly killed. The people to blame are those who followed and didn't handle the problem. For all we know he might have had a great plan on how to disarm these groups and have a positive end game in Afghanistan. He was killed suddenly.

Gun culture and jihadi culture was simply a side effect of using a proxy army to defend ourselves against the USSR and it's warm water intentions.

 

[A.A. Khan]

There is a certain segment of shia, ahmadi, ghamdi activists,and desi liberals. Rest of Pakistan still respects Gen. Zia and how he defended PAkistan. Whatever mistakes he made, every loser govt. after him not once tried to push it back showing how fake their opposition is.

@Sharpshooter12

Your lengthy unaware doomsday analysis needs a reality check of 2008. Please revisit the events of 2008how Indian media post Mumbai attacks started their CNN like propaganda and US agents ruling Pakistan at that time Zardari and man implicated by Gen. Zia family, Col. Durrani made anti-Pakistan statements and destroyed Pakistan's case from within. In a way they allowed pressure to be built on their own country and seldom defended. Paksitan's meek response is the reason Pakistan is now made a joke abroad Pakistan has better friends than USA but Pakistan also needs a strong independent leadership not agents.
PAkistan has suffered the worse diplomatically back in 1971, when our strategic ally USA left us cornered in UN. You know who came to save Pakistan, China. China has used its one of the very few vetos in 1972 and saved Pakistan. Saudis, our desi liberals favorite enemy alongwith other middle eastern countries refused to recognize Bangladesh and lobbied for Pakistan with other countries also. Pakistan can manage any crisis, it produces its own food. It has a population bigger than Russia and EU countries combined. It it shapes its policies well, no country can challenge it without blowback on its interests.

 

[Verve]

https://www.facebook.com/

'I'm not indulging in self praise but Pakistanis are intelligent people'

 

[undercover JIX]

People blame him for terrorism looool

if u will blame zia for extremism in pakistan, might as well blame zia for boko haram in nigeria too hahaha

yea, with logic should blame Quaid e Azam for all ills in Pakistan today.

koi sharam hoti hai.......

 

[SQ8]

Indra Gandhi gives great interviews too.
So did Manuel Noreiga and even Indian PM Modi and hitler. Great interviews do not define a personality or their contributions; actions do.
All Dictators in Pakistan did only this

 

[Hassan_Ishtiaq]

https://www.facebook.com/

Great man.

 

[Sharpshooter12]

Your lengthy unaware doomsday analysis needs a reality check of 2008. Please revisit the events of 2008how Indian media post Mumbai attacks started their CNN like propaganda and US agents ruling Pakistan at that time Zardari and man implicated by Gen. Zia family, Col. Durrani made anti-Pakistan statements and destroyed Pakistan's case from within. In a way they allowed pressure to be built on their own country and seldom defended. Paksitan's meek response is the reason Pakistan is now made a joke abroad Pakistan has better friends than USA but Pakistan also needs a strong independent leadership not agents.
PAkistan has suffered the worse diplomatically back in 1971, when our strategic ally USA left us cornered in UN. You know who came to save Pakistan, China. China has used its one of the very few vetos in 1972 and saved Pakistan. Saudis, our desi liberals favorite enemy alongwith other middle eastern countries refused to recognize Bangladesh and lobbied for Pakistan with other countries also. Pakistan can manage any crisis, it produces its own food. It has a population bigger than Russia and EU countries combined. It it shapes its policies well, no country can challenge it without blowback on its interests.

Well sir the gist of my long doomsday analysis was that Zia was responsible for the state losing its monopoly over violence, which is the very basis of any modern society. Allowing armed militias to operate was unthinkable before Zia but after him that became a norm. And that is what lead to bloodshed in our country. Because once you unleash such a beast, its not easy to get it back into the cage.

Now whether bibi, nawaz, musharaf and zardari should have reversed the policies, yes they should have but none of them had the backbone to do it and face the repercussions so yes they are part of the problem and but the title of creator of this mess will always be reserved for Mard e momin.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

The most amazing part is his pair of eyes!!! How piercing they were!!!!! As if he was directly looking into the Satans inside these Ehl-I Dunya eyeball-to-eyeball, and nodding to them saying, "This isn't your standard Beni Adem!!! This is the party of "Innalillahi ve Inna Ilahi Rajeun"!!! Hodri Meydan you Iblis!!!"

And, very intelligent and sharp answers that would strike terror into the hearts of the Ehl-I Dunya!!!!

Fair enough. Let's wargame it in a imaginary future evantuality like 9/11. Let's say in next few months, a catastrophic terrorist attack happens in India where hundreds if not thousands of people are killed, including a few dozen Americans and Europeans. Imran Khan condemns it wholeheartedly. But then evidence starts to pileup that the act was a joint operation by Lashkar e Tayaba an Jaish e Mohammad, in fact cross that, India and US and their media believes that it was done by LET and JEM. And now they are demanding that we actually crack down on Hafiz saeed, Masood Azhar and their complete organizations, not the way we sometimes do but the way we handled TTP. UN passes a unanimous resolution supporting their stance, China does not dare veto it.

What options do you think IK will have. One he can stand up to rest of the world and declines to crackdown on Hafiz saeed and Masood Azhar. Two he can oblige the UN and act on the resolution resulting in a nation wide crackdown on LET and JEM members.

In the first case, best case scenario is that the world will impose crippling economic sanctions on us resulting in a complete economic meltdown. The worst case is that we are subjected to some awesome airstrikes that cripples our military and economy.

In the second case, if the government of PTI obliges the UN, LET and JEM members across the country start targeting the security forces. Now the problem with these organizations is that we have carefully cultivated them a strong following in this country, they themselves with their social welfare projects have created a goodwill among common people, so they will have sympathizers and what do we call them yeah facilitators.

So we'll be looking at another cycle of violence for a decade at-least.

Now in this imaginary situation, would you blame Imran Khan for taking the decision that resulted in such chaos in the country or would you be blaming the geniuses who created and propped these organizations in the first place. If you would blame Imran khan well then I have nothing to add, I respect your views.

But if your answer is the later, then that is the same reason why Zia is held responsible by many people for the bloodshed that followed 9/11.

Here is an excerpt from Andrew Small's book The China-Pakistan Axis: Asia's new Geopolitics, this will give you an idea how our military and its doctrine was different before the arrival of Zia

Anecdotes from the visit of a Pakistani military delegation to Beijing in 1966, as they attempt to replace the equipment that had been lost in the 1965 war, are illustrative:

Zhou Enlai, after enquiring why the Pakistanis only required fourteen days of ammunition from China—“How can a war be fought in that short time?” He went on to probe the generals:

“I would be interested to know if you have prepared the people of Pakistan to operate in the rear of the enemy…I am talking about a People’s Militia being based in every village and town. Since Pakistan lacks an industrial base to replenish supplies, this kind of defence is obviously well-suited to its needs.”

There was a stunned silence among the Generals. The concept of putting arms into the hands of the common man was totally alien to them; in fact, it was deemed a threat to law and order in Pakistan. The notion of a prolonged conflict involving the citizenry of Pakistan was not part of the defence strategy planned by these professional soldiers…When the generals met at my home for dinner that night they appeared to be upset, and one of them said: ‘War is a serious business and should be left to the professionals. Imagine a People’s Militia!…

Maybe the threat of that "people's militia" with nukes is keeping your arch enemies from indulging into the scenarios you sketched!!!

 

[Sharpshooter12]

Maybe the threat of that "people's militia" with nukes is keeping your arch enemies from indulging into the scenarios you sketched!!!

Its the nukes that are keeping them at bay, hakikat is that even without these armed militias we will be able to take care of our enemies so these militias are nothing but a liability and I don't see the hikmet of their creation.