I am proud of the Kargil operation: Musharraf

[punit]

No rather it's graveyard created by your occupation forces (a.k.a. Sissies) to mass dump (hide) the bodies of Kashmiri civilians.

Yes it's unfinished business and I will look very much forward to the day that this business is either resolved in a civilized fashion or by force.

we waiting with flowers. Why dont u care b'out body mass created outsourced drones and govt agencies.

No rather it's graveyard created by your occupation forces (a.k.a. Sissies) to mass dump (hide) the bodies of Kashmiri civilians.

Yes it's unfinished business and I will look very much forward to the day that this business is either resolved in a civilized fashion or by force.

we waiting with flowers. Why dont u care b'out body mass created outsourced drones and govt agencies.

 

[saiyan0321]

Yes it's unfinished business and I will look very much forward to the day that this business is either resolved in a civilized fashion or by force.

Lets hope its done on the civilized note ( although seriously doubt it) bcz if both countries go by force we will destroy each other ( as both are nuclear countries with itchy trigger fingers )

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

BS artists are BS artists but they do certainly take it to the next level

indian should remember the words of their then navy admiral (susheel kumar) that Op.Parakram was the most punishing mistake for indian army before they keep chest thumping; and apart from some pitched battles that wasn't even the start of a war yet!

a hundred indian soldiers were killed and 250 wounded during mine-laying operations (they somehow found themselves stepping on some of the 1,000,000 mines they planted) and vehicle accidents; and some tit for tat artillery duels with our side and other incidents led to another 550-600 indian KIAs

generally, military might can be utilized as an instrument of 'diplomacy' in international politics...however when we see the kind of chest-thumping we've seen from these people in the past decade or so, it becomes a source of amusement

 

[Argus Panoptes]

I think he was being sarcastic

Lets hope its done on the civilized note ( although seriously doubt it) bcz if both countries go by force we will destroy each other ( as both are nuclear countries with itchy trigger fingers )

Given that both sides are nuclear armed, any progress, if it ever happens, over Kashmir is bound to be political, not military. Conversion of the LoC into a recognized border is the most likely outcome, barring any drastic changes in the states themselves.

 

[Screambowl]

I think Musharraf is playing his card of Kargil bravery so and so to impress the Pakistani Kaum, that he crossed the LOC. So I think he had planned Kargil to tell his bravery stories to fight elections but unfortunately the whole Pakistan has to face tragic defeat. For the Pakistan it was a disaster.

 

[saiyan0321]

a hundred indian soldiers were killed and 250 wounded during mine-laying operations (they stepped on the ones they planted) and vehicle accidents; and some tit for tat artillery duels with our side and other incidents led to another 550-600 indian KIAs

You are talking about the 2000-2001 border conflict right.... Conflict less fiasco more.

generally, military might can be utilized as an instrument of 'diplomacy' in international politics...however when we see the kind of chest-thumping we've seen from these people in the past decade or so, it becomes a source of amusement

I think the most likely out come would be staus quo.

 

[Screambowl]

Given that both sides are nuclear armed, any progress, if it ever happens, over Kashmir is bound to be political, not military. Conversion of the LoC into a recognized border is the most likely outcome, barring any drastic changes in the states themselves.

sir new-clear war would not have happened by any chance. I am sure It was only taken as a virtual threat. Pakistan did move its arsenal. But the greater part is, India did have its ambassador in Islamabad and New Delhi had Pakistani ambassador. That means diplomacy was still on run and talks were on.

 

[EzioAltaïr]

Never was yours and never will be yours. And trust us not to back away from the cause. In fact, once pressure on the western sector subsides we must do more to support the freedom fighters in Kashmir. I don't think diplomacy will work.

As for Kargil - much of our Air Force was grounded due to sanctions but in hindsight aerial support could have been a game changer however those areas are difficult to operate because of the altitude.

At any rate, Kashmir is unfinished business and if you ****** shmucks and fanboys on here think Pakistan would accept indian designs in the occupied territory you are sadly mistaken. If you think the freedom fighters there would opt to abandon the cause - well it's wishing thinking on your part.

India - which murders and tortures Kashmiris can be taught a valuable lesson once again.

"Once again"? You need to have done it a first time to try it "again".

 

[blain2]

While talking about the India-China war is seriously off topic (you started that), let me ask you this - do you see any Indian saying that he is proud of it? Do you see any Indian general or politician or citizen claiming it to be a matter of pride? As I said before, it is quite simple really - victories are a matter of pride, defeat is a matter of shame.

I do not look at the Kargil conflict as a matter of victory or defeat. For that matter, none of the wars have done any wonders for either India or Pakistan as we continue to maintain status quo, this despite the split of Pakistan. As I have said before, Pakistan being the smaller country does not expect to defeat India, but will fight it to a standstill to ensure that issues of import remain on the radar. Kashmir is just such issue. For as long as it remains unresolved, such conflagrations will remain a possibility, regardless of the outcome since they are localized but tend to influence things at a global level.

@blain2 and @Windjammer Why dont you guys just answer the simple question instead of beating round the bush?

What was the objective of Kargil? And was the objective achieved?

If you cannot answer this simple question means you know that the Kargil adventure was a defeat for Pakistan.

See above. I am not beating around the bush.

Yes you are right.. How do you expect others when your own General has no respect for his own troops.

We saw the dead body of our pilot and you see your soldiers getting treatment in our Hospitals.

As if the medical treatment of your troops in our field hospitals and CMHs in the 65 and 71 wars does not count for anything. Do you think history just starts with Kargil?

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

I do not look at the Kargil conflict as a matter of victory or defeat. For that matter, none of the wars have done any wonders for either India or Pakistan as we continue to maintain status quo, this despite the split of Pakistan. As I have said before, Pakistan being the smaller country does not expect to defeat India, but will fight it to a standstill to ensure that issues of import remain on the radar. Kashmir is just such issue. For as long as it remains unresolved, such conflagrations will remain a possibility, regardless of the outcome since they are localized but tend to influence things at a global level.



See above. I am not beating around the bush.



As if the medical treatment of your troops in our field hospitals and CMHs in the 65 and 71 wars does not count for anything. Do you think history just starts with Kargil?

if none of the wars(proxy or direct ) didn't work then how are you planning to take the remaining part of Kashmir ?

 

[DARKY]

As if the medical treatment of your troops in our field hospitals and CMHs in the 65 and 71 wars does not count for anything. Do you think history just starts with Kargil?

I was comparing the treatment of captured Indian pilots and troops got in comparison to captured Pakistani ones.
A few videos released those poor POWs... opening their heart and you talk of it as an insult to the honor and dignity of the soldiers from your country[Izzat-o-Iqbal].... where was that "Izzat-o-Iqbal" when Indian troops were being insulted, Killed and their dead bodies mutilated... while in your custody.

 

[blain2]

if none of the wars(proxy or direct ) didn't work then how are you planning to take the remaining part of Kashmir ?

Well there is the fallacy in your thought process. Who is stating that Pakistan is interested in taking all of Kashmir? All of the possible tracks for resolving the Kashmir dispute developed post Kargil. The Chenab formula and a few others as an example. Limited conflicts, covert pressure are tools to steer the conversations and sometimes force the other side's hands. India does it with Pakistan, we do the same to India.

 

[BATMAN]

I was comparing the treatment of captured Indian pilots and troops got in comparison to captured Pakistani ones.
A few videos released those poor POWs... opening their heart and you talk of it as an insult to the honor and dignity of the soldiers from your country[Izzat-o-Iqbal].... where was that "Izzat-o-Iqbal" when Indian troops were being insulted, Killed and their dead bodies mutilated... while in your custody.

Whitewashed brains with false history.... stop falsification of facts.

Pakistan sends back Indian helicopter after refueling – The Express Tribune

‘Spy’ Surjeet Singh handed over to Indian authorities; confesses offense | Pakistan | DAWN.COM

 

[blain2]

I was comparing the treatment of captured Indian pilots and troops got in comparison to captured Pakistani ones.
A few videos released those poor POWs... opening their heart and you talk of it as an insult to the honor and dignity of the soldiers from your country[Izzat-o-Iqbal].... where was that "Izzat-o-Iqbal" when Indian troops were being insulted, Killed and their dead bodies mutilated... while in your custody.

Share with me some real evidence that it was Pakistani troops who mutilated the dead bodies. Claims are many on both sides. If someone neutral passes judgement then its worth debating. Otherwise its just propaganda. As you can well see, the basic premise of your argument is in disagreement, so is it even worth arguing over?

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Well there is the fallacy in your thought process. Who is stating that Pakistan is interested in taking all of Kashmir. All of the possible tracks for resolving the Kashmir dispute developed post Kargil. The Chenab formula and a few others as an example. Limited conflicts, covert pressure are tools to steer the conversations and sometimes force the other sides' hands. India does it with Pakistan, we do the same to India.

Then why make it delayed and complex by so many formulas, why not call the LOC as IB and go home take rest.