I am proud of the Kargil operation: Musharraf

[DARKY]

I think It says it all... straight from the Horse's mouth.... for those brainwashed and deluded Musharraf loyal puppies.

Best part.... "Ye Ladai Karna Jante ha Sir... Zakhmi Lejana Dead body le jana nahe jante"

May be in the next election campaign Musharraf would again come out with another truth and reveal that He is proud of letting his 4000 men dead and rot on the mountains of Kargil, Drass.

Epic Military Success.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

You can't "defend" what is occupied.

You can control it by brute force which is basically indian M.O.

We'll see what happens

I think It says it all... straight from the Horse's mouth.... for those brainwashed and deluded Musharraf loyal puppies.

Best part.... "Ye Ladai Karna Jante ha Sir... Zakhmi Lejana Dead body le jana nahe jante"

May be in the next election campaign Musharraf would again come out with another truth and reveal that He is proud of letting his 4000 men dead and rot on the mountains of Kargil, Drass.

Epic Military Success.

Not worse than the stench of dead Indian target practice earlier on

 

[surya kiran]

Never was yours and never will be yours. And trust us not to back away from the cause. In fact, once pressure on the western sector subsides we must do more to support the freedom fighters in Kashmir. I don't think diplomacy will work.

As for Kargil - much of our Air Force was grounded due to sanctions but in hindsight aerial support could have been a game changer however those areas are difficult to operate because of the altitude.

At any rate, Kashmir is unfinished business and if you ****** shmucks and fanboys on here think Pakistan would accept indian designs in the occupied territory you are sadly mistaken. If you think the freedom fighters there would opt to abandon the cause - well it's wishing thinking on your part.

India - which murders and tortures Kashmiris can be taught a valuable lesson once again.

Yes yes please proceed with hum ghaas khayenge. humari qoum ko dubayenge. hum moral support dengey. 60 yrs of ..... and still toota foota record with no end in sight. Please keep at it. And when the 'freedom fighters' spill over and start another dance in your cities dont cry over how the entire world is against you. Amazing. no sorry sad to see that still you chaps have not learnt. Another 60 years and you will be in a deeper hell hole. Guess after 60 yrs when China is fed up, you will look at Nigeria for aid.

 

[Donatello]

I failed in My board Examination . Then i punched my examiner . I guess me and Mush think Alike .

No need to state that. We can see it from your posts.

Its a sad for an army when its Generals feel proud of such ill conceived, poorly executed and disastrous military exploits.

It is reassuring for adversaries though.

Poorly executed? Catching an Army twice your size with their pants down is poorly executed? What about the Indians and their might being a laughing stock when they ran out of the artillery shells?

 

[Cherokee]

No need to state that. We can see it from your posts.

If there is no need to state that , why are you stating it . Self Contradiction much ??

 

[DARKY]

You can't "defend" what is occupied.

You can control it by brute force which is basically indian M.O.

We'll see what happens

You are already watching it... and will have more proud moments in future.

Not worse than the stench of dead Indian target practice earlier on

Target Practice...eh... you haven't seen the worse yet.

At least the Indian Soldiers got proper Burial rights... Old Parents could see their son's face for the last time... sisters cry over their dead bodies... brothers carry them on their shoulders... wives see what happened to their husbands.. Children know daddy fought bravely.

However what did Musharraf say to Old Parents who lost their only support... wives... sisters.. brothers... what would mothers tell their son about their father... and what he did.

It is indeed very Proud of Musharraf...

 

[blain2]

Kargil was never under the control of PA, you are misquoting here

Army to celebrate Kargil liberation from Pak raiders in 1948, IBN Live News

There are more than a few resources, at the official level, which clearly state that Kargil was under Pakistani control prior to 1948 conflict, then again parts of it were returned to Pakistan after the 65 war and only after 1971 war, the Indian side consolidated the control.

There were pitched battles fought around Kargil which saw the entire area including Drass and Zoji La Pass initially coming under Pakistan control before most of it being reclaimed by Indian troops by November 1948.[8] It remained with India after the ceasefire. It again saw some action in the Second Kashmir War with India managing to wrest back the reminder of the Kargil area twice. The first capture was on May 17, 1965, when skirmishes broke out in Rann of Kutch, and India retaliated in the Kashmir sector.[8] However, this had to be returned as per UNMOGIP treatise. On August 15, the same year Kargil fell to Indian forces, though it was once again returned as part of the Tashkent Agreement.[8] However in the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971 the entire Kargil region including key posts was captured by Indian troops under leadership of Col. Chewang Rinchen .[9] In order to straighten out the line of control in the area, the Indian Army launched night attacks when the ground temperatures sank to below −17° and about 15 enemy posts located at height of 16,000 feet and more were captured.[10] After Pakistan forces lost the war and agreed to the Shimla Agreement, Kargil and other strategic areas nearby remained with India

I can quote from a few more books too but would have to type up the references. Kargil was taken over completely by the IA in 1971 and not returned because of the "need to straighten out the LoC" to own advantage. Since both sides have disregarded the Shimla agreement so many times, there was nothing unprecedented in Pakistan's actions in 1999.

No it is reverse, They came and gained territory and then they thought IAF and the IA personnel are regrouping and also thought that it is very difficult to maintain the supply lines and went back from where they came from.

There is no parallel between Kargil and 1962, the earlier one is a misadventure.

Again I disagree. There are more than enough references, even available on the net, that clearly document the Indian attempts to probe Chinese responses by setting up positions in areas where it was known that the Chinese would be contesting. Some posts were set up in June of 62 by the Indian side with the Chinese reaction not materializing until August. So the point is that for your own sake you will never admit that you folks have been guilty of doing the very same along the LoC with Pakistan and even China that you try to blame Pakistan for.

I personally see no wrong in something that has been considered a legitimate option to change the situation to own favour by both sides. Kargil falls into this very category.

If you folks really insist on making the crossing of the LoC such a great issue, then lets start with your violation of the IB in East Pakistan in 1971. Prior to open war, Indian troops were operating in civilian clothes with the Mukti Bahini against our security forces on our soil, so enough of this rubbish about the wrong of crossing the LoC, or the wearing of civilian clothes by military personnel. You folks have done all of this and more to others. You should be the last ones preaching to Pakistan about how to conduct war.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

No need to state that. We can see it from your posts.




Poorly executed? Catching an Army twice your size with their pants down is poorly executed? What about the Indians and their might being a laughing stock when they ran out of the artillery shells?

capturing the hills would have been clever if you had enough strength to hold on to it,which you didn't have.

 

[DARKY]

In 65 Indian Forces has gone beyond Haji Pir pass near Pakistani part of Poonch... had Shastri not given back the pass to Pakistan... We would have been in more advantageous position as of now and would've put a strong lid on Insurgency as the pass is extensively used to push the terrorist in the valley.

Again in 71 IA lost its chance to get back the pass.

 

[Windjammer]

I think It says it all... straight from the Horse's mouth.... for those brainwashed and deluded Musharraf loyal puppies.

Best part.... "Ye Ladai Karna Jante ha Sir... Zakhmi Lejana Dead body le jana nahe jante"

May be in the next election campaign Musharraf would again come out with another truth and reveal that He is proud of letting his 4000 men dead and rot on the mountains of Kargil, Drass.

Epic Military Success.

Give it a rest mate, you think we didn't capture any Indian soldiers or return any of your dead.....how much of that did you see in Pakistani media......this is the bankrupt morals of the slavish Indian media which tends to stage and exaggerate all just to boast the moral and ratings.......and regarding this nonsensical causality figure.....all the fighting took place on the Indian side, even if the claim of two hundred buried in India is to be believed, did Pakistan managed to recover and retrieve some 3500 bodies.....come out of your delusion mate......it was India which suffered from an acute shortages of coffins.!!

 

[ares]

Yes we were because once the heights were captured your forces down below became fantastic target practice

The tide only changed because india called in the aerial force; I understand you lost some aircrafts as well and we didn't even deploy any! I wasn't saying that some gains weren't wrestled back but I am saying we were in a position of strength and that too with tens of thousands of fewer men. Sharif was a coward and he acted as if he had no plans to provide support to Kashmiri freedom fighters. He knew about the existence of the operation and be capitulated

And as pointed out (which apparently causes you to get butt hurt and emotional) we still retain some of those gains

It is base logic..when you had the higher ground, we were easy targets for your forces, when we ascended the conflict vertically, positions got reversed and your men became sitting ducks.

In fact Kargil misadventure was doomed as soon as you disowned your soldiers(to save face international community).
It meant you could no longer overtly support your soldiers or launch diversionary attacks or even use your airforce to save them.

Your failure to employ your air force was a death knell of your Kargil adventure.It was just a matter of time before you lost completely, After initial setbacks to Indian army., it revised it tactics ..and your positions started falling one after the another, your logistic lines were cut, your soldiers were starving, had no ammunition.

Perhaps your PM realized the inevitability of the outcome and hence rushed to US to save your nation from humiliating defeat in addition to saving his own job(guess neither of his plans actually worked out).

 

[Bang Galore]

....... so enough of this rubbish about the wrong of crossing the LoC, or the wearing of civilian clothes by military personnel. You folks have done all of this and more to others. You should be the last ones preaching to Pakistan about how to conduct war.

Alright, if that be the argument, on what basis are you asking Indian forces to withdraw from Siachen? After all, if treaties can be disregarded, what basis for any silly agreement probably not worth the paper it is written on?

 

[janon]

There are more than a few resources, at the official level, which clearly state that Kargil was under Pakistani control prior to 1948 conflict, then again parts of it were returned to Pakistan after the 65 war and only after 1971 war, the Indian side consolidated the control.


I can quote from a few more books too but would have to type up the references. Kargil was taken over completely by the IA in 1971 and not returned because of the "need to straighten out the LoC" to own advantage. Since both sides have disregarded the Shimla agreement so many times, there was nothing unprecedented in Pakistan's actions in 1999.


Again I disagree. There are more than enough references, even available on the net, that clearly document the Indian attempts to probe Chinese responses by setting up positions in areas where it was known that the Chinese would be contesting. Some posts were set up in June of 62 by the Indian side with the Chinese reaction not materializing until August. So the point is that for your own sake you will never admit that you folks have been guilty of doing the very same along the LoC with Pakistan and even China that you try to blame Pakistan for.

I personally see no wrong in something that has been considered a legitimate option to change the situation to own favour by both sides. Kargil falls into this very category.

If you folks really insist on making the crossing of the LoC such a great issue, then lets start with your violation of the IB in East Pakistan in 1971. Prior to open war, Indian troops were operating in civilian clothes with the Mukti Bahini against our security forces on our soil, so enough of this rubbish about the wrong of crossing the LoC, or the wearing of civilian clothes by military personnel. You folks have done all of this and more to others. You should be the last ones preaching to Pakistan about how to conduct war.

Success has several fathers, while defeat is an orphan.

The point is that whatever musharaff tried to achieve through the kargil operation, he FAILED. He did not accomplish his goals of taking Kashmir. So to boast about it defies common sense.

You don't have to be apologetic that you made an attempt - as you rightly wrote earlier, both sides will make such attempts as long as Kashmir is contested. But shouldn't musharaff be apologetic about the WAY he attempted it, at least with the benefit of hindsight? Or at the very least, shouldn't he refrain from boasting about a military campaign that achieved nothing and cost a lot?

While talking about the India-China war is seriously off topic (you started that), let me ask you this - do you see any Indian saying that he is proud of it? Do you see any Indian general or politician or citizen claiming it to be a matter of pride? As I said before, it is quite simple really - victories are a matter of pride, defeat is a matter of shame.

 

[Contrarian]

Yes we were because once the heights were captured your forces down below became fantastic target practice

Ofcourse. The advantage of heights were great.

The tide only changed because india called in the aerial force; I understand you lost some aircrafts as well and we didn't even deploy any!

Yes. But had Pakistan deployed any aircrafts, India would have entered into a full scale war with Pakistan. Besides Pakistan's airforce was badly equipped for a war - they had very limited spares for F-16 and no plane had BVR, while IAF was equipped with it. It would have ended badly for PAF had they intervened.

I wasn't saying that some gains weren't wrestled back but I am saying we were in a position of strength and that too with tens of thousands of fewer men. Sharif was a coward and he acted as if he had no plans to provide support to Kashmiri freedom fighters. He knew about the existence of the operation and be capitulated

Pakistan was an a position of strength that was fading with every passing day. New peaks were being re captured by India and PA had run out of logistics to support their men. Do you know - and it is a testament to PA's soldier's bravery - that when peaks started getting recaptured, PA soldiers were found dead with sugar in their mouth and no other food in their entire camps?

Most of the supply lines had been destroyed by Indian bombing either through arty or IAF.

And as pointed out (which apparently causes you to get butt hurt and emotional) we still retain some of those gains

Using the word 'some gains' is injustice to what PA actually finally got.

1-3 peaks retained by Pakistan Army out of an 100 + peaks that PA initially occupied. Those gains are naught but ceremonial in nature to make you feel good.

 

[Bang Galore]

......it was India which suffered from an acute shortages of coffins.!!

More of the old canard. There was no shortage of coffins since the only coffins then in use were the ones made by the carpenters.