I am getting sick of hearing this free speech excuse for hate crimes

[KingMamba]

Maybe if you understand the background of this freedom of speech you may not feel so sick. Europe in the middle ages went through religious persecution if alternate thoughts were expressed as opposed to the one defined by the Roman Church. The turmoil the Europeans went through and the sacrifice made by Europeans resulted ultimately in the freedom of speech as it broke the shackles of Roman Church. For example, Galileo was arrested for heresy and his publications prohibited by Church.

That is the reason why Europeans cherish this hard earned right. Just because some fool misuse it, they are not going to compromise on this right.


If you want to punish these fools, do so and pursue the legal aspect. Did anyone approach the U.S courts to prosecute this idiot?

The actress who was lied too.

 

[Bhairava]

What I meant to say is they literally have LAWS protecting American Indian sites of worship, cemetery and stuff! But it is ok to burn the Quran?

They have LAWS not to talk about holocaust- something which happened based on an ethnic group and you are not even allowed to research it to deny it! Yet it is FREEDOM OF SPEECH/ EXPRESSION to make cartoons and movies about another's Prophet?

Why the hypocrisy?

Dudette, Muslims should be the last ones to complain about being insulted ok.

I have already mentioned how your very basic and most fundamental prayer disrespects other gods and their religions as false. So why wince when others return the favor ?

Why the hypocrisy ? that you will not care about other's belief's - call them idolators, kafirs, unbelievers condemned to the deepest corners of hell, worship false gods etc but will get puffed up when some one says something about your religion or Prophet.

Respect is earned, not demanded. I'm a Hindu. I am ready to accept your religion as equally valid. Would you do that to me ? Accept my religion and Gods as equally valid to yours ? If not, you have no ground to complain.

 

[funtoosh]

I have nothing against appreciating the right of freedom of speech. I am against abusing it and using it as an excuse to express your bigotry and hate. Also your right to free speech comes with a responsibility to use it conscientiously.

hafiz saeed does it daily in pakistan, and you giys appreciate it.
ahmadis are free to call themselves muslims but you guys wont.

 

[Burger Boy]

These bigot know Muslims are emotional and sensitive about their beliefs yet they keep poking at them and then sitting back with satisfaction when they react that way. Never mind that innocent people die so we can have a laugh and feel self smug.

The way to change people is through dialogue, education and respect not by insulting them.

If that's the case then it's more the Muslims fault for worrying and protesting something that doesn't matter rather than being concerned with real problems that Muslim countries face.



Sometimes you should yourselves before trying to change other people.

 

[Black Widow]

no..neither in words nor in actions


If i abuse your mum and you give me punch on my nose then we both should be blamed. I should blame for my abusing words and provoking and you should blame for violence

I am sure if someone made a film like this about the Jewish religion in USA you would be arrested and branded an anti-Semite

I have seen many (hundreds) of low budget cartoon show and clips where they have mocked Jesus and Moses . And trust me no one have been arrested. Except Islam no one make such fuss...


If you don't trust me, google this "Youtube+Jesus+family guy" or "Youtube+Moses+family guy" or ''Youtube+Vishnu+family guy"

These are just some example, like wise many shows will be there.

 

[imperialmen]

I have nothing against appreciating the right of freedom of speech. I am against abusing it and using it as an excuse to express your bigotry and hate. Also your right to free speech comes with a responsibility to use it conscientiously.

I agree. The West is using the 'freedom of speech' to abuse and ridicule others. What sickens me more is how most Westerners support the cartons and movies!

If what I wrote above as sarcasm, I want to make it crystal clear that I agree with the OP. The freedom of speech is being abused.

 

[Sashan]

I have nothing against appreciating the right of freedom of speech. I am against abusing it and using it as an excuse to express your bigotry and hate. Also your right to free speech comes with a responsibility to use it conscientiously.

Ofcourse it is a double-edged sword as in the hands of a miscreant, it becomes a dangerous weapon. I do understand with the advent of internet it has become much easy for anyone to stir trouble but again is that an excuse to curtail this freedom? If so, what is the difference between living in North Korea or living in other countries? I say ignore these miscreants and move on. If not, you are playing into their hands.

 

[Sashan]

Well, lets see the hypocrisy of all this shall we:


Read more:Protecting Native American Sacred Sites - ICTMN.com Protecting Native American Sacred Sites - ICTMN.com



Read more:Protecting Native American Sacred Sites - ICTMN.com Protecting Native American Sacred Sites - ICTMN.com


Law taken from wiki Recognition of Native American sacred sites in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Another law from wiki Laws against Holocaust denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you want me to go on? How come there is NO freedom of speech / expressions or whatsoever in either of those which I presented up there? How come there ARE LAWS for these? But its ok to thrash any other faith? Where is the equality rubbish now?

I am jut angry at the hypocrisy! I do not support HOW the Muslims reacted...But it is not the 1st time they have been provoked! It is disappointing they did not learn from the previous attempts at their protests and how bad they make Islam look..

As for protecting Indian sacred sites, it has nothing to do with freedom of expression or speech. As for the laws against the Holocaust denial, it was based on the premise that extremists might use it to bring back nazism. Though it might sound superficial and I do not have an explanation beyond this, I think of this way - it is a compensation to the centuries of anti-semitism which existed in Europe ending with the slaugtering of millions of jews at the hands of Nazis.
But I can safely say there is on hypocrisy in forming that law as there were many hateful propaganda/movies/cartoons against christian religion which is the religion for majority of them and there are no laws prohibiting these hateful movies/cartoons/propaganda.

 

[Sashan]

Then don't listen. No one forces you to use you tube....which is all about freedom of expression. Do what the scientologist do...forbid members to surf the net...as it scrambles their easily manipulated minds.



Prosecute for what? I hate Rob Snieder films...can't prosecute him for them though...



They have plenty of anti-semetic material on the net...name some one arrested for it.

My question was have they approached the courts for legal option. I am not passing judgement here on the outcome. Maybe I should have rephrased what I stated.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Come on guys.

We had Clint Eastwood talking to an empty chair in front of a whole audience. Hence the term "Eastwooding"

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

@ To all

I have read replies of most member here. I don't want to reply each poster individually but you guys are confusing different issues here. Guys read it carefully because i don't want to repeat same thing again and again

I really appreciate freedom of speech. Freedom of speech allow us to criticise anything be it religious practices, politics, policies of leadership. But what you guys don't see here is the difference between intentional mocking/bashing/abusing/insulting and constructive criticism. There is difference between saying an idea/belief/view is wrong and being hostile about it.There is also difference between criticizing an idea and attacking a person. Criticising an idea creates good discussion while when it gets too personal the topic gets lost. If i abuse some of you and start name calling without debating on your opinion, beliefs then is this valid form of freedom of expression? How insulting and mocking any prophet considered as constructive debate or criticism on religion?

If someone is disagree about veil, jihad,rights of women, attitude of Muslims then they can debate on it and can have criticism and people used to do it and never seen any kind of protest because someone criticised Islam. If you are going to criticize my argument then its necessary to have any counter argument for why my argument is not valid otherwise you are just pumping out air and making noise. A criticism that says only "I hate Hindu/Muslim" says nothing at all and similarly abusing any prophet will just bring disturbance in any society. There should be a limit for someone crossing the line of decency.

How many of you nationalists willing to take such abuse/open insult on your nation or on something which you hold very dear? Be honest with yourself before giving right of abuse to haters. If you prefer to give such right to hater then be ready to take it from other as well. whoever don't agree with your utopian view of India/americas government, you asked them to leave the country and defend your country like your politicians are saint. If i stand up and questioning your government. It's bashing. You cannot even take criticism let alone insult on your country which run by politicians who are not perfect but you are asking for right to abuse prophet of billions in the name of freedom of speech. We should not let freedom of speech use for trolling and insults and that was my point.

How many times i would have to repeat that i am against any negative violent reactions on such abuse of freedom of speech? But i am also against negative actions which bring such negative reaction unlike you guys who are defending it. Its not common sense to expect good outcome from intentional insult or hate. We know most of us are not good in dealing with insults especially if someone throw insult at those things which we consider more dear than our lives be it our parent, lover, country or prophet. Thanks for reading

 

[Dubious]

No hypocrisy...muslim holy places are protected too..if I burn down a mosque...I will be arrested. Now see what I did there? I took the things claimed...showed them incorrect. Not to hard....actually less work than burning down buildings and murdering.

All I am saying is that the west has shown tolerance towards other religions...which are a minority and have created laws so that no one can speak or take action against them! BUT the most PRACTICED religion (praying 5 times a day) is not given any protection? It's quran is allowed to be burn and now movies against its prophet?

Well, I do not blame them for not understanding...After all they do not believe in god so I do not expect them to understand our believes but there is something called respect which every human should do.

NOW before any fool brings up what Pakistanis did...I would like to point out the many PEACEFUL protests that were not aired! And WELL, Then you would ALSO be comparing a 3rd world country to America...

Well, it is not the 1st time the west provoked the Muslims and I have mentioned in my other posts that it was sad they did not learn from previous protests how they brought down Islam's name! Someone should give them a spanking! Now what about the west?

 

[cyphercide]

Allow me to simplify the phenomenon;

The United States has grappled with intent one too many times. A mass murder in the US of any given environment has been critiqued for motives and the results on the consequent soul searching are published for all to contemplate about. Many point towards violent video games as being the catalyst, others testify that the lyrics of a heavy metal band are to blame. So is the state justified in banning all such concerned material so that criminal behavior is curtailed? Hardly so as all this leads is to drive a wedge between the crime committed and the alleged justifications thereof.

Let's not pardon any vandals/murderers/criminals by resorting to such flimsy excuses. It obfuscates the crime at hand.

 

[livingdead]

The issue is, somebody has to judge which is a fair criticism and which is done as an insult. Some might get offended by silliest of banter.
Which is why it is best to allow even the most offensive abuse, in the name of free speech. Consider it as a small price to pay to allow us to have live in a free and open society.
I agree with salman rusdie when he says :
"....because it's easy to defend people that you agree with. It's easy to defend people you're indifferent to or who don't particularly upset you. It's when somebody says something that you really dislike that you discover if you believe in free speech or not."

Please read the bit where he shows preference to american free speech guaranteed under first amendment (as opposed to european law banning hate speech) and give your views, whether you are swayed by his arguments.
http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/f...xclusive-interview-with-salman-rushdie-268418

 

[A1Kaid]

We should also be allowed to insult the Hindu religion and defile all it's deities in the name of freedom of speech.