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I am a Muslim of the Indian subcontinent. Let me tell you a story. This is the story of my life.

There's ample evidence if you choose to look for it.
Bring them forth.
I don't understand your 2nd paragraph at all. Wouldn't mind some elaboration on why you think it has to be monolithic to be converted by sword and what the multiple cultures tht existed after Islam was cavalried in
We see many instances of people embracing a new religion if the local King or Priest would have a change of heart. I won't be surprised if some rendition of it still continues.

There was no Asoka level of brutality in Islam's rise in Sindh. It never saw the meteoric rise it gets awarded.
 
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Bring them forth.

We see many instances of people embracing a new religion if the local King or Priest would have a change of heart. I won't be surprised if some rendition of it still continues.

There was no Asoka level of brutality in Islam's rise in Sindh. It never saw the meteoric rise it gets awarded.
Sure that's one way. More relevant in what happened in India was the reign itself was taken over by the invaders and then weak ones had no choice but to convert.
 
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Sure that's one way. More relevant in what happened in India was the reign itself was taken over by the invaders and then weak ones had no choice but to convert.

If that had been the case, it would not have taken hundreds of years.

In the regions documented history, the creation of nation states and polity of democracy in 1947 is the biggest demographic change recorded.
 
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If that had been the case, it would not have taken hundreds of years.

In the regions documented history, the creation of nation states and polity of democracy in 1947 is the biggest demographic change recorded.
by 'it' if you mean islam by sword, no it didn't take hundreds of years. As each small kingdom fell to the invader, within a generation the genocide or conversion was complete.

And as and when a non-muslim leader/ king mobilized in an area and drive out the invader, people actually moved from area to area.

many such movements can be evidenced even today - the marathi and saurashtrian populace in south india, the telugu communities in maduri etc.
 
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by 'it' if you mean islam by sword, no it didn't take hundreds of years. As each small kingdom fell to the invader, within a generation the genocide or conversion was complete.

And as and when a non-muslim leader/ king mobilized in an area and drive out the invader, people actually moved from area to area.

many such movements can be evidenced even today - the marathi and saurashtrian populace in south india, the telugu communities in maduri etc.

As previously mentioned the demographic changes of any significant scale are not recorded till 1947.

Although one can argue that taxation system imposed offered better conditions than heavily taxation employed by the kingdoms of the time, only instances of conversions were motivated by the downtrodden classes like Dalits to be seen equal and landowners who were motivated/subverted by lower taxes.

Islam just rode its way through the most natural way. On the back of trading caravans.
 
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As previously mentioned the demographic changes of any significant scale are not recorded till 1947.

Although one can argue that taxation system imposed offered better conditions than heavily taxation employed by the kingdoms of the time, only instances of conversions were motivated by the downtrodden classes like Dalits to be seen equal and landowners who were motivated/subverted by lower taxes.

Islam just rode its way through the most natural way. On the back of trading caravans.
From 0 to 24% of population by 1947 is not of sufficient scale. ???
 
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From 0 to 24% of population by 1947 is not of sufficient scale. ???

Disposition, jeeten!


Born out of your surroundings, a new and a codified reality, a new ceiling. There is, or at least should be a reason to celebrate... the grandeur, why was it always not there(hence the revisionism)?
Why must "India" a nascent reality not be imposed on it's past is the question you're asking!
Why there be any Muslims... when Delhi the seat of Muslim empire couldn't affect a majority outcome in it's immediate surroundings, or Nizam deliver a Muslim state?
Farther you go from reality, taller the tales.
Punjab just had split clans in it's plains less than a century ago and only after the border... moved for their faith...wasn't it supposed to be the time for the oppressed to reclaim their animist past? Or even a godless world with a shallower ceiling?
So, for your existential questions other's must equiesce? When you're in as much, if not, greater need?

So, instead India of today worries, why it too, now that it has seen it's hindu dawn slip to an abyss, become Muslim!
 
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Whether Islam or Christian or
Hindu , I consider ALL inexplicable rituals mumbo jumbo.

-Holy Quran Surah Mulk Verses 6-13

67:6
وَلِلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا۟ بِرَبِّهِمْ عَذَابُ جَهَنَّمَ ۖ وَبِئْسَ ٱلْمَصِيرُ ٦

Those who disbelieve in their Lord will suffer the punishment of Hell. What an evil destination!


67:7
إِذَآ أُلْقُوا۟ فِيهَا سَمِعُوا۟ لَهَا شَهِيقًۭا وَهِىَ تَفُورُ ٧

When they are tossed into it, they will hear its roaring as it boils over,


67:8
تَكَادُ تَمَيَّزُ مِنَ ٱلْغَيْظِ ۖ كُلَّمَآ أُلْقِىَ فِيهَا فَوْجٌۭ سَأَلَهُمْ خَزَنَتُهَآ أَلَمْ يَأْتِكُمْ نَذِيرٌۭ ٨

almost bursting in fury. Every time a group is cast into it, its keepers will ask them, “Did a warner not come to you?”

67:9
قَالُوا۟ بَلَىٰ قَدْ جَآءَنَا نَذِيرٌۭ فَكَذَّبْنَا وَقُلْنَا مَا نَزَّلَ ٱللَّهُ مِن شَىْءٍ إِنْ أَنتُمْ إِلَّا فِى ضَلَـٰلٍۢ كَبِيرٍۢ ٩

They will reply, “Yes, a warner did come to us, but we denied and said, ‘Allah has revealed nothing. You are extremely astray.’”

67:10
وَقَالُوا۟ لَوْ كُنَّا نَسْمَعُ أَوْ نَعْقِلُ مَا كُنَّا فِىٓ أَصْحَـٰبِ ٱلسَّعِيرِ ١٠

And they will lament, “If only we had listened and reasoned, we would not be among the residents of the Blaze!

67:11
فَٱعْتَرَفُوا۟ بِذَنۢبِهِمْ فَسُحْقًۭا لِّأَصْحَـٰبِ ٱلسَّعِيرِ ١١

And so they will confess their sins. So away with the residents of the Blaze!


67:12
إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ يَخْشَوْنَ رَبَّهُم بِٱلْغَيْبِ لَهُم مَّغْفِرَةٌۭ وَأَجْرٌۭ كَبِيرٌۭ ١٢

Indeed, those in awe of their Lord without seeing Him will have forgiveness and a mighty reward.



67:13
وَأَسِرُّوا۟ قَوْلَكُمْ أَوِ ٱجْهَرُوا۟ بِهِۦٓ ۖ إِنَّهُۥ عَلِيمٌۢ بِذَاتِ ٱلصُّدُورِ ١٣

Whether you speak secretly or openly—He surely knows best what is ˹hidden˺ in the heart.




It isn’t too late to save yourself. That day eyes will look in horror and immense regret will take over.
 
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U just proved my point - it is one thing to be born into it but if even after growing upto age of critical thinking (I assumed you are ) if you still think in terms of superiority that's is proof of your inferiority as a person. Clear indication you need to grow up some more.


Yes but you shud take that as a reflection of your understanding and maturity rather than anything to do with the religion or ism. Given where we as human race are in 2023, regardless of which God you faith in, if the mumbo jumbo or mist religions don't make you laugh, you need a check up


Because Islam and Christianity is superior to the crazy idol worshipping nonsense prevalent across India, look it's a simple reason, just because you can't accept it is not my problem
 
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LOOKING BACK AT MY DISTANT PAST
By Khalid Umar

I am a Muslim of the Indian subcontinent. Let me tell you a story. This is the story of my life.

I am 1,300 years old. I live in India, which has now one of the largest communities of Muslims in the world. I also provide intellectual leadership to Islam. I am also home of great scholars and Sufi tradition of Islam. And yes, I am proud of who I am now; a Muslim who worships Allah and believes in Muhammad & Quran. I live and die for Islam. I even divided the land called India for Islam with the help of foreign rulers and I am ready to do it again if opportunity arises.

But I was not always a Muslim. About 1450 years ago there were actually no Muslims in this world. I was a follower of Hinduism which is the oldest religion of mankind. I had been like this for generations. If human civilization is 10,000 years old, then I was a Hindu for 10,000 years. If human civilization is 100,000 years old, I was a Hindu for 100,000 years.

But then something changed.

I rejected everything that I had been following for thousands or even million years. This change did not come easy. Habits are not easy to form and it was my dharma; the story of my lineage for centuries. It was a life of exquisite stories, mythology, colours, rituals, dances, music, mantras and food, infused in my blood. It was the most difficult transition which took many generations of hardship to accomplish. But, Al-hamdolillah, I became a Muslim, dheeray dheeray, slowly, albiet surely.

I have some vague memories in my hereditary DNA how it all started. My forefathers were peaceful and spiritual people who lived in harmony with nature. They had no expansionist desires. We were a vast land from the world’s tallest peaks to the longest rivers and deserts. Herds of Arab, Afghan and Mongol armies of looters started ransacking my land, about 1000 years ago. The came & came in droves. They killed my fathers and brothers. They dishonoured my mothers and sisters. My mother was one who was enslaved and sold in the bazars of Baghdad. The mountain pass in Afghanistan looking at the Indian plains was named Hindu-kush, so much was the blood strewn of my brethren. They massacred my people and continued to do so for centuries. I died and lived as well, to pass on my genetic lineage and expand my tribe of Islam that in 1941 census we were 24.3% or 95 million in 1230 years of coercion & conversion (712-1941).

I dishonoured my foundations due to fear initially. Slowly generations who followed forgot the sacrifices of my parents, sisters and brothers. I became a diehard Muslim. I reassured myself that it was time for a change and may be that was the only way my family could live in peace and without disgrace of slavery. It was the most tragic, bloody, dangerous, sad and painful compromise in my life’s story of 10 centuries.

The effect was so brutal that I refused to look back at my history, lest my old wounds begin to fester again. When I am told by Will Durant that “The Mohammedan Conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precarious thing, whose delicate complex of order and liberty, culture and peace may at any time be overthrown by barbarians invading from without or multiplying within,” no tears or remorse touches my heart.

I am suffering from historical amnesia. I have forgotten my entire history. Today, when someone reminds me of these painful experiences, I refuse to pay attention to them. I dismiss them as stories concocted by anti-Islamic elements and dismiss the facts of history and archaeology. I don’t question the ruins of Nalanda, Gyanvapi mosque or Somnath temple.

I forgot the high principles taught to me by nature. I forgot the lessons of my relationship with the Cosmos. I forgot that Brahman lives inside me; indeed, I am the Brahma, the eternal God. I externalised my God as Allah, perched somewhere in a far corner of the Universe. I relegated myself from being the God to an entity without any knowledge of relationship with the reality. My paradise became a brothel house of 72 virgins, food, fruit and booze, owned and managed by Allah. I killed many of my brethren for the lust of that brothel house. It was the scare of hell which overtook my sanity. I forgot my scriptures. I lost my relationship with Upanishads & yogic traditions. I lost dharma as well as karma.

Now sometimes if the memory of my blood-soaked past emerges in my dreams, my eyes no longer ooze out tears of blood, my heart no longer misses a beat. I retaliate by clinging more fiercely with my faith group.

I know I have lost so much. I have lost connection with the land of my ancestors. I have sacrificed a lot to become a Muslim. Islam was not handed to me on a platter. No prophet spoke to me in my language. No angel descended from heavens. I adopted a revealation which was not meant for me. I believed the hearsay and destroyed everything that had always been my foundation; the history in which my ancestors were the heroes. The stories which were part of my intellectual and cultural heritage. I rejected all just to become a Muslim. I bet no one in human history has made such a sacrifice. I destroyed myself and the land l belonged to.

I am an unfortunate member of the lost tribe of Hinduism. I live with those who are related to me in blood and history. But I can’t love them or go back to their fold, due to the gruesome memories of blood inflicted on my soul, via generations of blind faith on scriptures, holy in name only. To me my own blood brethren are Kafirs!

I am an indoctrinated lost soul. I am an (unfortunate) Muslim of the Indian subcontinent.

I don't give a damn about what my ancestors followed for thousands of years, We follow islam because it makes sense, its better than any other system in the world, its natural.
 
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I don't give a damn about what my ancestors followed for thousands of years, We follow islam because it makes sense, its better than any other system in the world, its natural.
I found the logic of 'Hindu ancestors' stupid many Hindutva preachers try to convince Muslims. Every Muslim's ancestor at some point of history followed other religions even the Arabs of Mecca and Medina. Why any Muslims have to abandon his current faith and embrace Hinduism for the love of some distant ancestors who may or may not have been Hindus? And why only Hindu ancestors matter? Why not Muslim ancestors who came latter? What about my ancestors ten thousands years ago when none of the current religions now prevalent in the world existed and my ancestors followed shamanistic rituals? For me, my Muslim ancestors 500 years ago, Hindu ancestors 1000 years ago, my shamanistic ancestors 10,000 years ago and my Homo Sapiens ancestors 100,000 years ago have little influence and importance. There is no point of feeling of love only for Hindu ancestors and ignoring others and abandoning my current identity as a Muslim. Hindus should stop such stupid arguments.
 
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I have no particular affinity or hostility to people from a 1000+ years. They are as alien to me , perhaps even more alien to me than you are.

With that, I have two questions for you:

1. Why do many feel compelled to minimize the extent of violent spread ?
Cause you maximize it Which simply isn't historically true - to say 2.1 billion Muslims are Muslims cause people forced em to be Muslims is hilarious
Were forced forced conversion a phenomena - yes
Did it impact majority of people - no
Did it impact the people who they felt threatened by - yes
Did it impact your everyday regular people who accepted em, paid taxes, didn't pose a threat- no

They seem to want to believe in the superior/inferior nonsense and somehow if it is forced on you it must be inferior.
Don't th you even trying to say
2. Any reference on violence having been the m.o only in the first two centuries and nit after ?
- first two - three centeries is where the non Muslim millitary generals, soldiers, rulling elites, rebellious tribes were present
This class of people were converted - after couple centeries Thier grip and power in society decreased thus mass conversion of people groups was not required

This is a template followed from Persia to North Africa, Levant and many other places

Rest of those who paid thier taxes and let it be without posing a threat were by and large left alone - so those who were forced were probably the bigger threats from the rulers presepective than those who were not forced

UP and Central India was controlled by the Muslims down to the village level no other region was controlled to this extent as you still had independent kingdoms, rebellious tribes that were used for millitary support, and autonomy, lord's - yet it's still Hindu majority cause they earned more money from their taxes and they (or thier powerful rulling elites) didn't pose a threat to their rule

As long as you do as you are told and pay taxes if anything Muslim rulers preferred Hindu subjects because of economic reasons - they had little incentive to mass convert your regular people working in a farm somewhere or Urban tradesmen

Although they did convert thier opponents or enemies- it can even be a group of people as in a tribe with chief's who threaten thier rule
 
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-Holy Quran Surah Mulk Verses 6-13

67:6
وَلِلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا۟ بِرَبِّهِمْ عَذَابُ جَهَنَّمَ ۖ وَبِئْسَ ٱلْمَصِيرُ ٦

Those who disbelieve in their Lord will suffer the punishment of Hell. What an evil destination!


67:7
إِذَآ أُلْقُوا۟ فِيهَا سَمِعُوا۟ لَهَا شَهِيقًۭا وَهِىَ تَفُورُ ٧

When they are tossed into it, they will hear its roaring as it boils over,


67:8
تَكَادُ تَمَيَّزُ مِنَ ٱلْغَيْظِ ۖ كُلَّمَآ أُلْقِىَ فِيهَا فَوْجٌۭ سَأَلَهُمْ خَزَنَتُهَآ أَلَمْ يَأْتِكُمْ نَذِيرٌۭ ٨

almost bursting in fury. Every time a group is cast into it, its keepers will ask them, “Did a warner not come to you?”

67:9
قَالُوا۟ بَلَىٰ قَدْ جَآءَنَا نَذِيرٌۭ فَكَذَّبْنَا وَقُلْنَا مَا نَزَّلَ ٱللَّهُ مِن شَىْءٍ إِنْ أَنتُمْ إِلَّا فِى ضَلَـٰلٍۢ كَبِيرٍۢ ٩

They will reply, “Yes, a warner did come to us, but we denied and said, ‘Allah has revealed nothing. You are extremely astray.’”

67:10
وَقَالُوا۟ لَوْ كُنَّا نَسْمَعُ أَوْ نَعْقِلُ مَا كُنَّا فِىٓ أَصْحَـٰبِ ٱلسَّعِيرِ ١٠

And they will lament, “If only we had listened and reasoned, we would not be among the residents of the Blaze!

67:11
فَٱعْتَرَفُوا۟ بِذَنۢبِهِمْ فَسُحْقًۭا لِّأَصْحَـٰبِ ٱلسَّعِيرِ ١١

And so they will confess their sins. So away with the residents of the Blaze!


67:12
إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ يَخْشَوْنَ رَبَّهُم بِٱلْغَيْبِ لَهُم مَّغْفِرَةٌۭ وَأَجْرٌۭ كَبِيرٌۭ ١٢

Indeed, those in awe of their Lord without seeing Him will have forgiveness and a mighty reward.



67:13
وَأَسِرُّوا۟ قَوْلَكُمْ أَوِ ٱجْهَرُوا۟ بِهِۦٓ ۖ إِنَّهُۥ عَلِيمٌۢ بِذَاتِ ٱلصُّدُورِ ١٣

Whether you speak secretly or openly—He surely knows best what is ˹hidden˺ in the heart.




It isn’t too late to save yourself. That day eyes will look in horror and immense regret will take over.
see? mumbo jumbo.

but always funny to see the dudes in cossack or whatever your equivalent is, seriously yell 'save yourself".

here is my response:
"oh yee yaw yae thine verily clowns, my saving is in the bank , what i need thee tell thine lord, is better shaving

And with better blades of safety razor and not sword, I am verily shaved
zippidy doo daah"


like i said, mumbo jumbo.

Disposition, jeeten!


Born out of your surroundings, a new and a codified reality, a new ceiling. There is, or at least should be a reason to celebrate... the grandeur, why was it always not there(hence the revisionism)?
Why must "India" a nascent reality not be imposed on it's past is the question you're asking!
Why there be any Muslims... when Delhi the seat of Muslim empire couldn't affect a majority outcome in it's immediate surroundings, or Nizam deliver a Muslim state?
Farther you go from reality, taller the tales.
Punjab just had split clans in it's plains less than a century ago and only after the border... moved for their faith...wasn't it supposed to be the time for the oppressed to reclaim their animist past? Or even a godless world with a shallower ceiling?
So, for your existential questions other's must equiesce? When you're in as much, if not, greater need?

So, instead India of today worries, why it too, now that it has seen it's hindu dawn slip to an abyss, become Muslim!
your post reads like poetry but i don't undertstand it. Sorry, I am a simpleton
 
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