I accept facts and share my view on Jammu and Kashmir

[forcetrip]

My dear friend,You are not understanding what I am saying. I am not denying the problems you mentioned. In fact there are tons of more problems.

But there won't be any direct war.
Reasons:
- to fight a war one country need to be more powerful than other so there is a change of winning. In our case nukes take out that possibility
- to solve the dire problems nobody create bigger problems. Just think if water issue between 2 countries trigger a war there will be more shortage of water than it already was !!! With bigger chances enemy just contaminating the water rendering it useless !!!! And making war senseless.

- not On/for land of Kashmir. If we take in account of PA gen. Opinions during Kargil, they believe IA would have opened a second front if the heights remained occupied. I can't quote the names but yes that was very much possibility and even IN was mobilised.
That was the reason Kargil was tonned down and escalations where kept under control

- The blood for war : the blood for war is the " political power , international relations and economy " India has everything more than Pakistan has or will have in near future. And by going Pak's luck of finding itself on the opposite side of the world opinion will make it more hard.
On other hand evenif India has or will have more than Pak Indian need isn't met. We need more cause we are growing and currently more focused on China than Pakistan. So India will avoid any unnecessary trouble. But India might use China policy and help Afgan to its feet keeping Pak busy on that borders

The worst thing that can and might happen is increase in numbers of proxies.

But still no war. We don't even considered international pressure here. Their investments in India make them part of problems

I have explained the reasons that war is inevitable. You are very optimistic in your approach and deductions. With double the population water will be the first of many problems countries will have with each other. As things are progressing now there is only one logical end to it, unless some major changes happen in the next 10 to 20 years above all educated and loyal rulers appear on both sides. What we can hope and want is completely different to ground realities.

 

[Desist]

Not once have I said that war is a solution to any problem and I agree with you that there are better ways to handle any problem. We disagree that you consider it not happening while I am saying that war is inevitable considering how things are being handled presently. We are wasting water, not communicating, over populating and not educating. I do not see how war will not happen in the next 20 to 30 years.

I disagree on your assessment for India.
India is reducing population growth rate. We will stabilize our population in the next couple of decades.
Our literacy rate is rising fast. Each decade we take a near about 9% jump in literacy.
Our households are being electrified - the goal to get every house electricity by 2019 is on track.
Our infrastructure(including water works) are being done fast like never before.

We have an utterly massive coast line. Sea water recycling plants are being installed for industrial townships. Govt is encouraging all this. The biggest one is already active in Gujarat.

We have a Government that is working for us. Even Congress that worked the least of all still does something..

 

[American Pakistani]

to lie is human nature and it doesn't need nationality. Point is one who caught lieing lose his credibility. Same goes for Pak or India or USA or China. To make more easy few guys in US state department made a fool of themselves few months ago. I hope you knew what I mean.

If you want me prove Gen. Lied publicly more than anybodyelse. Why only he knows. But that took a hit on his credibility



As an Indian I am open to all opinions and I make my opinion on facts and NOT on beliefs. So forgive me for not believing.

I follow the American line here " Show me or you don't have it "

I will go through your link and will reply if I find anything that's not already on table.

Edit: The article doesn't add anything it is only repeating what you are saying that to without any sources at least you are referring Gen the wrtiter didn't do that too. If you remember when Bush Jr was shown as a Google search of "liar". It was just the effect of Google algorithm. If I have to change it all I to do is feed Google what I wanted it to show. But I am not part of any propaganda team to do that.

All I have to do is
and just add tags that are my targets

I will rest my case here. Won't bother you anymore. Good day

I'm not going to impose or force anything on you. You have the right to accept or deny what I posted. There will be difference of opinions.

 

[Sergi]

I'm not going to impose or force anything on you. You have the right to accept or deny what I posted. There will be difference of opinions.

of course. But in any debate or argument the person who claim anything try to prove his point by the facts acceptable to opposite party.

We will stop here with the famous quote
"Trust but verify"

I have explained the reasons that war is inevitable. You are very optimistic in your approach and deductions. With double the population water will be the first of many problems countries will have with each other. As things are progressing now there is only one logical end to it, unless some major changes happen in the next 10 to 20 years above all educated and loyal rulers appear on both sides. What we can hope and want is completely different to ground realities.

I am screenshoting your comment and going to show it to my friends. They always complain about my lack of Optimism

I am just glad that you said deductions and not delusions.

I can't comment on Pak side but I can assure you India will never go to war with Pak at any condition. India will only defend against aggression. You can find many Brave Indians here who wanted a full scale war and they might want to hold on to your theory. But as far as I am concerned and what I do for living it's not possible.

I am saying leadership of both side being sane for predicted future. I am not sure about Pak side but there isn't any reason why I should believe their will be irrational leadership in Pak unless you guys decided to make "Lal topivala" the man incharge.

Let's agree to disagree. I will excuse myself form this argument

 

[forcetrip]

of course. But in any debate or argument the person who claim anything try to prove his point by the facts acceptable to opposite party.

We will stop here with the famous quote
"Trust but verify"


I am screenshoting your comment and going to show it to my friends. They always complain about my lack of Optimism

I am just glad that you said deductions and not delusions.

I can't comment on Pak side but I can assure you India will never go to war with Pak at any condition. India will only defend against aggression. You can find many Brave Indians here who wanted a full scale war and they might want to hold on to your theory. But as far as I am concerned and what I do for living it's not possible.

I am saying leadership of both side being sane for predicted future. I am not sure about Pak side but there isn't any reason why I should believe their will be irrational leadership in Pak unless you guys decided to make "Lal topivala" the man incharge.

Let's agree to disagree. I will excuse myself form this argument

I doubt you making claims of stopping India from going to war against Pakistan. If I was as factual and upfront about the conditions of your country as you suggested then you wouldnt be making such claims as well. Just as many lal topi walas we have you have the orange dhooti walas. I will agree to disagree with you on this. But as of right now we are trying to clean up mines being floating from your side of the river.

Floodwater carrying landmines from India

SIALKOT: The bomb disposal squad defused on Tuesday a high intensity Indian anti-tank landmine near the bordering village Chahoor-Sabzpeer, Pasrur.
Sialkot District Coordination Officer Dr Asif Tufail told reporters the landmine had landed in the area floating along the swollen Nullah Dek from Indian territory.
He said the landmine weighed 10 kilo, which was spotted by some local people. They alerted the local police, and soon the bomb disposal squad was called in from Sialkot.
This is the third landmine in the two days, spotted and defused in Jandiyaala-Zafarwal and Pindi Dewaniyaan.

 

[Sergi]

I doubt you making claims of stopping India from going to war against Pakistan. If I was as factual and upfront about the conditions of your country as you suggested then you wouldnt be making such claims as well. Just as many lal topi walas we have you have the orange dhooti walas. I will agree to disagree with you on this. But as of right now we are trying to clean up mines being floating from your side of the river.

Colour isn't orange.
But those guys dream for "Akhand Bharat" and if you knew them then war isn't the way they aim to take it. Later generations might see the war as away. I wrote that in my earlier post as "brave Indians". I think you missed that.
Mines are defensive weapons and flood is natural.

I didn't understand what you means by "you wouldn't be making such claims". Are you questioning I saying no insane leadership in India ???
Well the most nationalist party is in Power and even they aren't being aggressive even having good majority.

India has more to lose than gain. And on serious account nobody in India care about "P O K" or Azad K. Hell most of them don't know where it is. For most of what we have is most of it. Our national opinion isn't driven by anti Pak emotions. The worst of worst was seen after 26/11.

That was the time people wanted GOI to do something.

GOI will eventually will want to reply Pak by your own medicine but you guys aren't even in state of war with us. So non state actors might dominate our countries in near future

Sorry for spell mistakes. Look like my autocorrect has grown AI on its own.

 

[forcetrip]

Colour isn't orange.
But those guys dream for "Akhand Bharat" and if you knew them then war isn't the way they aim to take it. Later generations might see the war as away. I wrote that in my earlier post as "brave Indians". I think you missed that.
Mines are defensive weapons and flood is natural.

I didn't understand what you means by "you wouldn't be making such claims". Are you questioning I saying no insane leadership in India ???
Well the most nationalist party is in Power and even they aren't being aggressive even having good majority.

Ask those guys if Pakistan is a part of India or not.

You can not assure me of anything that a country does even if you say you rule the country as of now. War will not happen tomorrow or the day after. We can not say how many rulers of India might change for the situation to blossom.

Floating mines into enemy territory are not defensive anymore. and yes flood is a natural occurrence. Is it possible that there is a certain mischief to this scenario? I wouldn't discount it. Maybe you would cause you think India could never do something like float military explosives into civilian areas.

Modi has kept most things under control but the platform he presented before being elected was of a very different and aggressive nature. The leadership can make a U turn but the person voting has a very different view. His view seldom changes. As long as that voter base keeps expanding, war is a very real possibility. Not just a possibility according to my analysis. It is inevitable because of the need for resources for a over burdened population full of emotional, unreasonable citizens with a disputed territory as icing on the cake.

 

[Sergi]

Ask those guys if Pakistan is a part of India or not.

yes it is for them. You should see their map. It's not just Pak.

Floating mines into enemy territory are not defensive anymore. and yes flood is a natural occurrence. Is it possible that there is a certain mischief to this scenario? I wouldn't discount it. Maybe you would cause you think India could never do something like float military explosives into civilian areas.

Now its phobia. How much you know about anti tank mines ???
Do have a look at our geographical terrain before going guns ablaze. And if India has to float military explosives into civilian areas I will perffer anti personal mines. Not anti tank mines which need the weight in tons to triggered

Modi has kept most things under control but the platform he presented before being elected was of a very different and aggressive nature.

Yes it was and still is. You guys misunderstood it. In summary he said he will give BEFITTING reply. That's all Rest is taking India ahead. Make in India and all other programs like that

The leadership can make a U turn but the person voting has a very different view. His view seldom changes.As long as that voter base keeps expanding, war is a very real possibility. Not just a possibility according to my analysis.

then you don't know who vote for him. His election campaign was business oriented. All middle class and all businessmen pitched for him.

It is inevitable because of the need for resources for a over burdened population full of emotional, unreasonable citizens with a disputed territory as icing on the cake.

Need for resources is inevitable. But common citizens don't go to war or can declare war. There will always be some insane people on both side who would want to nuke each other. It simply wouldn't happen. Not just nukes.
Even Kargil like situation won't happen again
- IA is prepared for those acts as element of surprise is gone
- I think Pak has enough bad publicity at international lvl
- but I agree Kargil like thing is only thing Pak can do and afford without causing much noice

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Indian infatuation with Kashmir is illogical

1- It argued it was enslaved by British, argued it can only call it self free once it is Liberated from British Rule. Will of People is most important thing in world. Main argument for new statehood, simple "will of people". Hollywood even made this movie about Gandhi and will of people


2- When Kashmiri's voiced their Opinion against Joining Pakistan, now Indian officials call it ridiculous to allow them separation

So where is this power and respect of phrase "Will of people" when it comes to Kashmiris


Why is the Argument of getting a independent state from british different circumstance then the Argument of Kashmirs asking for their legitimate right to Join Pakistan ?


The infatuation is constructed merely on Need for Ego Satisfaction

• Rather then accept the will and open door for safe business and politics
  India chooses , to beat up people and deny them their rights. And insists on making
  South Asia hot bed for Nuclear war
• Instead of focusing on Alleviating poverty in their own country, we find RAW agency busy with Espionage operations in Pakistan

You can't claim that only YOU have right to demand freedom from any nation.

Others have similar right to demand freedom from you!!

Since 1947 - Pakistani flag has flown in Kashmir with Locals and it is 2016 it is time India realized its moral obligation to Let go of Kashmir and be a proper member of International community

India's action are just a reflection of East India company , how it treated folks in it's colonies

 

[forcetrip]

yes it is for them. You should see their map. It's not just Pak.
Now its phobia. How much you know about anti tank mines ???
Do have a look at our geographical terrain before going guns ablaze. And if India has to float military explosives into civilian areas I will perffer anti personal mines. Not anti tank mines which need the weight in tons to triggered
Yes it was and still is. You guys misunderstood it. In summary he said he will give BEFITTING reply. That's all Rest is taking India ahead. Make in India and all other programs like that
then you don't know who vote for him. His election campaign was business oriented. All middle class and all businessmen pitched for him.

Need for resources is inevitable. But common citizens don't go to war or can declare war. There will always be some insane people on both side who would want to nuke each other. It simply wouldn't happen. Not just nukes.
Even Kargil like situation won't happen again
- IA is prepared for those acts as element of surprise is gone
- I think Pak has enough bad publicity at international lvl

Our first problem of extremists on both sides have been solved.

On the second issue of anti tank mines, if I was you my first question would have been as to how how anti tank MINES were floating?

On the Modi issue if you are saying he duped his voters by suggesting what he actually meant after elections. I agree with you on that as well.

The sub continent is not full of common citizens. You as one man or me as one man can not determine policy. I have explained to you a much bigger picture while you continue to use a personal opinion. I am not here debating whether India is ready for a war or what the global consequence of a Pakistani initiated war or an Indian initiated war will have. The outcome is best left for when this war occurs. Winners and losers can only be determined by the emotional population hungry for such a disaster. Nowhere have I mentioned that nukes will be used to start a campaign. No one will hold on to nukes when all is lost.

Publicity is the last thing on everyone's mind when this is happening.

 

[Sergi]

Our first problem of extremists on both sides have been solved.

That's never a question to any nation. All countries have their fare share of nutjobs. It's the environment that help them to do what they want. Its responsibility of sane people to deny them that.

On the second issue of anti tank mines, if I was you my first question would have been as to how how anti tank MINES were floating?

Anti tank mines are ideal for floating anti tank mines are mostly mines on the banks to take out the tanks trying to cross water front. And banks are the first thing that flood attack.

On the Modi issue if you are saying he duped his voters by suggesting what he actually meant after elections. I agree with you on that as well.

It's Pak side that blow his comments out of proportion and out of context. I find nothing wrong when a leader say he will do anything to defend his nation

The sub continent is not full of common citizens. You as one man or me as one man can not determine policy.

Correct

I have explained to you a much bigger picture

while you continue to use a personal opinion.

wrong on both counts.
Big picture !!! Brother you hardly count the scene !!!!
You are just focusing the issues between Ind and Pak. And fact being Ind vs war will have more parties having their interest in danger. You are not counting them. eg China ( CPEC ) Japan/France/USA/Russia ( investments in India )


All I can write is its not my personal opinion. But you are free to assume what you want

I am not here debating whether India is ready for a war or what the global consequence of a Pakistani initiated war or an Indian initiated war will have.

That's the bigger picture

The outcome is best left for when this war occurs.

Let's wait the Boogeyman till people play Pokeman

Winners and losers can only be determined by the emotional population hungry for such a disaster. Nowhere have I mentioned that nukes will be used to start a campaign. No one will hold on to nukes when all is lost.

Do you have any realtion with military ??? Family work friends ??? Simple yes or no will do. Details not needed.

Publicity is the last thing on everyone's mind when this is happening.

Survival is on everyone's mind. Aftermath of nuclear exchange will not be limited to our geographical boundaries. Our Manson phenomenon will spread radiation to almost everywhere in Asia