Human error led to 45% of IAF air crashes

[PakSniper]

You last visited: 07-25-2009, I come back and see there still crashing. Guess nothing has changed on the Indian side.

Well, back to studying for my Ph.D, take care.

And Salam, WebMaster, been a damn long time since I seen you, how you holding up?

 

[Awesome]

I do not agree with this, if pilot error let to 45% crash why was only Mig 21 crashed most times.

The newbies get a the old machines?

Are they doing anything wrong in particular? Would be valuable info.

 

[KS]

The newbies get a the old machines?

Are they doing anything wrong in particular? Would be valuable info.

No thats becos the Bloody Babus in MOD wont buy a good trainer for these air warriors and with insufficient training wen they r introduced to the Mig s then......

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Russia has sought to blame India for the frequent crashes of MiG aircraft of the Indian Air Force (IAF), attributing them to the “low quality” of spares New Delhi buys for the planes, reports Arun Mohanty from Russia, reports Arun Mohanty from Russia.

“India buys low quality spare parts from Ukraine and East European countries. At times, it even buys spare parts that have outlived their utility, thus creating conditions for frequent crashes,” Vladimir Barkovsky, deputy general designer of MiG Corporation, told IANS on the sidelines of the MAKS-2001 International Airshow held in the Moscow suburb of Zhukovsky.

“These spare parts may cost a little less, but ultimately you pay much higher price when pilots lose their lives as a result of the crashes. This also delivers a heavy blow to MiG’s reputation around the world,” Barkovsky said.

From the MiG series, the IAF operates MiG-21 strike aircraft, MiG-23 and MiG-29 fighters, MiG-27 bombers and MiG-25P spy aircraft. The first batch of MiG aircraft joined the IAF in the mid-1960s.

The IAF has lost more than 100 MiG-series aircraft, most of them ageing MiG-21s, over the past five years. More than 50 pilots have been killed in these accidents.

While most crashes have involved the ageing MiG-21 aircraft, the mainstay of the fleet, nine MiG-23s have also met with accidents over the last two years.

rest of the article is here:

Russia blames India for MiG crashes,Security Issues, News Analysis, India News Online



note that since this article was written, there were scores of other crashes --including flagship flankers and mig-27s in west bengal, etc.

 

[Indus Falcon]

IAF lost 40 planes, 16 pilots since 2008
2011-02-23 21:30:00

New Delhi, Feb 23 (IANS) The Indian Air Force (IAF) lost 40 planes and 16 of its pilots in air crashes in the past three years, the Rajya Sabha was told Wednesday.

'During the last three years, from Feb 1, 2008, to Feb 17, 2011, 40 accidents of IAF aircrafts have taken place. In these accidents, 16 pilots, 24 service personnel and five civilians have lost their lives,' Defence Minister A.K. Antony said in a written reply to the upper house during question hour.

Antony said every IAF aircraft accident was thoroughly investigated by a court of inquiry to ascertain the cause and remedial measures were taken accordingly to check their recurrence.

Apart from this, the IAF had taken various measures relating to strengthening the aviation safety organisation, streamlining of accident and incident reporting procedure, analytical studies and quality audits of the aircraft fleets to identify vulnerable areas and institute remedial measures to reduce aircraft accidents, he said.

'Visit of all flying bases by senior aerospace safety functionaries of the IAF is undertaken to enhance aviation safety. Measures like Operational Risk Management and Crew Resource Management have been implemented to generate a safe flying culture,' he added.

He said the accident prevention programmes had given an added thrust to identify risk-prone and hazardous areas specific to the aircraft fleets and operational environment to ensure safe practices and procedures.

To another question, he said that in 2010, the IAF reported 12 air crashes and in these five pilots, 11 armed forces personnel and four civilians were killed.

From Jan 1 to Feb 18 this year, there was one air crash, but no pilot, service personnel or civilian was killed, he added.

A MiG-21 fighter jet had crashed Feb 4 this year, 140 km off Gwalior airfield while enroute to Jamnagar. No casualty was reported in the accident.

IAF lost 40 planes, 16 pilots since 2008

 

[Thorough Pro]

That India is trying to improve the qualities of the current crop of pilots, raise the standards for pilot recruits, and is letting natural selection work its unmerciful process. Which would you be willing to bet your national defense?

That would be weird, and I am sure it's not the case. We are just looking at number of crashes here, to be objective we should be looking at these numbers together with number of sories/number of flight hours etc.

 

[fatman17]

the global average is 58%! - so one can make their own conclusions

 

[Indus Falcon]

the global average is 58%! - so one can make their own conclusions

Could you please elaborate?

 

[Kinetic]

The crashes have been reduced or last few years. Good. When the up gradation is complete and Migs are phased out the crashes will be minimum.

 

[Indus Falcon]

The crashes have been reduced or last few years. Good. When the up gradation is complete and Migs are phased out the crashes will be minimum.

'During the last three years, from Feb 1, 2008, to Feb 17, 2011, 40 accidents of IAF aircrafts have taken place. In these accidents, 16 pilots, 24 service personnel and five civilians have lost their lives,' Defence Minister A.K. Antony said in a written reply to the upper house during question hour.

 

[Jigs]

Can this be due to the type of trainers being used. What type of training do these pilots get during their time at the academy and after ?

For example Turkish Pilots during their degrees at the academy do glider training (till they get their Class A license this is also optional people who are not becoming pilots can also do this) then T-41D aircraft training. After graduating its T-37 tweet for basic and T-38 talon for advanced before moving on to their respective aircraft.

What type of trainer structure does India use ?

 

[Indus Falcon]

Can this be due to the type of trainers being used. What type of training do these pilots get during their time at the academy and after ?

For example Turkish Pilots during their degrees at the academy do glider training (till they get their Class A license) then T-41D aircraft training. After graduating its T-37 tweet for basic and T-38 talon for advanced before moving on to their respective aircraft.

What type of trainer structure does India use ?

1) HAL HPT 32

Specifications (HPT-32)

Data from Aircraft Recognition Guide

General characteristics

Crew: 2: student, instructor
Length: 25 ft 4 in (7.7 m)
Wingspan: 31 ft 2 in (9.5 m)
Height: 9 ft 7 in (2.9 m)
Wing area: 15.0 m² (162 ft² [6])
Empty weight: 2,280 lb (1,034 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 2,915 lb (1,322 kg)
Powerplant: 1× Lycoming AEO-540-D4B5 piston engine, 260 hp (194 kW)

Performance

Maximum speed: 175 mph (281 km/h)
Range: 755 nm (1,400 km)

Armament

four hardpoints; 255 kg warload; machine gun pods; bombs; rockets


2) HAL HJT-16 Kiran Mk1 3) HAL HJT-16 Kiran Mk2

Specification (Kiran IA)

Data from All The World's Aircraft 1982-83

General characteristics

Crew: 2
Length: 10.60 m (34 ft 9 in)
Wingspan: 10.70 m (35 ft 1¼ in)
Height: 3.64 m (11 ft 11 in)
Wing area: 19.00 m² (204.5 ft²)
Empty weight: 2,560 kg (5,644 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 4,235 kg (9,336 lb)
Powerplant: 1× Rolls-Royce Viper turbojet, 11.12 kN (2,500 lbf)

Performance

Maximum speed: 695 km/h (375 knots, 432 mph) at sea level
Cruise speed: 324 km/h (175 knots, 201 mph)
Stall speed: 145 km/h (92 knots, 106 mph) flaps and landing gear down
Endurance: 1 hour 45 min
Service ceiling: 30,000 ft (9,150 m)

Armament

two 500lb (227kg) bombs or two SNEB rocket pods containing seven 68 mm rockets or two pods with 7.62 mm machine guns, or two 50-Imp Gal (226 litre) drop tanks

Variant

Kiran Mk.I
Two-seat basic jet trainer powered by a Rolls-Royce Viper turbo-jet engine. 118 built.
Kiran Mk.IA
Two-seat basic jet trainer with armament capability. Two underwing hardpoints fitted. 72 built.
Kiran Mk.II
Improved version with four hardpoints and integral twin 7.62 mm machine guns in nose and a Rolls-Royce Orpheus engine


4) HAL HJT-36 Sitara

Data from Specifications: HJT-36 Sitara Intermediate Jet Trainer - Air Force Technology

General characteristics

Crew: 2, student and instructor
Length: 10.91m (36 ft 1 in)
Wingspan: 10.00 m (32 ft 10 in)
Height: 4.13m (14 ft 5 in)
Max takeoff weight: 4,600 kg (10,000 lb)
Powerplant: 1× NPO Saturn AL-55I non-after-burning turbofan, 16.9kN (4,500 lbf)

Performance

Maximum speed: Mach 0.80 (1,000 kilometres per hour (620 mph))
Range: 1,000 kilometers (620 mi) ()
Service ceiling: 9,000 meters (30,000 ft) ()
Endurance: 3 hours
Maximum Dive Speed: 950 km/h
Maximum Load Factor: +7.0/-2.5 g

Armament

5 x hardpoints with up to 1,000 kg (2,200 lb)
1 × 23 mm cannon (optional)


5) BAE Hawk 132

Dimensions:
Overall Length
11.35m
Wingspan with Missiles
9.94m
Overall Height
3.98m
Weights:
Basic Empty Weight
4,450kg
Design Maximum Take-Off Weight
9,100kg
Fuel Capacity:
Internal Tanks
1,655l
External Tanks, Maximum
1,182l
Performance:
Maximum Dive Speed
Mach 1.2
Maximum Level Speed
1,000km/h
Service Ceiling
13,716m
Maximum Payload
3,000kg
Power:
Engine
Rolls-Royce mk871 Adour turbofan
Maximum Static Thrust Uninstalled at Sea Level
25.5kN / 6,000lb thrust
Design load factors :
Maximum Structural Limit
+8g to -4g
Limits with 1,360kg Payload and 60% Internal Fuel
+8g to -4g
Limits with 2,720kg Payload and 60% Internal Fuel
+6g to -3g

 

[acetophenol]

sittara is cute!

 

[Secret Service]

i heard that Indian pilots are better then US pilots...

i found this ....

 

[Jigs]

1) HAL HPT 32

Specifications (HPT-32)

Data from Aircraft Recognition Guide

General characteristics

Crew: 2: student, instructor
Length: 25 ft 4 in (7.7 m)
Wingspan: 31 ft 2 in (9.5 m)
Height: 9 ft 7 in (2.9 m)
Wing area: 15.0 m² (162 ft² [6])
Empty weight: 2,280 lb (1,034 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 2,915 lb (1,322 kg)
Powerplant: 1× Lycoming AEO-540-D4B5 piston engine, 260 hp (194 kW)

Performance

Maximum speed: 175 mph (281 km/h)
Range: 755 nm (1,400 km)

Armament

four hardpoints; 255 kg warload; machine gun pods; bombs; rockets


2) HAL HJT-16 Kiran Mk1 3) HAL HJT-16 Kiran Mk2

Specification (Kiran IA)

Data from All The World's Aircraft 1982-83

General characteristics

Crew: 2
Length: 10.60 m (34 ft 9 in)
Wingspan: 10.70 m (35 ft 1¼ in)
Height: 3.64 m (11 ft 11 in)
Wing area: 19.00 m² (204.5 ft²)
Empty weight: 2,560 kg (5,644 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 4,235 kg (9,336 lb)
Powerplant: 1× Rolls-Royce Viper turbojet, 11.12 kN (2,500 lbf)

Performance

Maximum speed: 695 km/h (375 knots, 432 mph) at sea level
Cruise speed: 324 km/h (175 knots, 201 mph)
Stall speed: 145 km/h (92 knots, 106 mph) flaps and landing gear down
Endurance: 1 hour 45 min
Service ceiling: 30,000 ft (9,150 m)

Armament

two 500lb (227kg) bombs or two SNEB rocket pods containing seven 68 mm rockets or two pods with 7.62 mm machine guns, or two 50-Imp Gal (226 litre) drop tanks

Variant

Kiran Mk.I
Two-seat basic jet trainer powered by a Rolls-Royce Viper turbo-jet engine. 118 built.
Kiran Mk.IA
Two-seat basic jet trainer with armament capability. Two underwing hardpoints fitted. 72 built.
Kiran Mk.II
Improved version with four hardpoints and integral twin 7.62 mm machine guns in nose and a Rolls-Royce Orpheus engine


4) HAL HJT-36 Sitara

Data from Specifications: HJT-36 Sitara Intermediate Jet Trainer - Air Force Technology

General characteristics

Crew: 2, student and instructor
Length: 10.91m (36 ft 1 in)
Wingspan: 10.00 m (32 ft 10 in)
Height: 4.13m (14 ft 5 in)
Max takeoff weight: 4,600 kg (10,000 lb)
Powerplant: 1× NPO Saturn AL-55I non-after-burning turbofan, 16.9kN (4,500 lbf)

Performance

Maximum speed: Mach 0.80 (1,000 kilometres per hour (620 mph))
Range: 1,000 kilometers (620 mi) ()
Service ceiling: 9,000 meters (30,000 ft) ()
Endurance: 3 hours
Maximum Dive Speed: 950 km/h
Maximum Load Factor: +7.0/-2.5 g

Armament

5 x hardpoints with up to 1,000 kg (2,200 lb)
1 × 23 mm cannon (optional)


5) BAE Hawk 132

Dimensions:
Overall Length
11.35m
Wingspan with Missiles
9.94m
Overall Height
3.98m
Weights:
Basic Empty Weight
4,450kg
Design Maximum Take-Off Weight
9,100kg
Fuel Capacity:
Internal Tanks
1,655l
External Tanks, Maximum
1,182l
Performance:
Maximum Dive Speed
Mach 1.2
Maximum Level Speed
1,000km/h
Service Ceiling
13,716m
Maximum Payload
3,000kg
Power:
Engine
Rolls-Royce mk871 Adour turbofan
Maximum Static Thrust Uninstalled at Sea Level
25.5kN / 6,000lb thrust
Design load factors :
Maximum Structural Limit
+8g to -4g
Limits with 1,360kg Payload and 60% Internal Fuel
+8g to -4g
Limits with 2,720kg Payload and 60% Internal Fuel
+6g to -3g

In that order or are you just listing their trainers ? Why is there 3 subsonic jet trainers and no supersonic ones ?

What is used for basic and advanced training out of those 4 ? I am guessing the Hawk is the advanced trainer ?