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Huge rally of Nawaz Sharif in Haripur

I also don't know anyone in my circle who support N league yet they keep winning. I've noticed people in punjab who support PTI are army fanboys and love army rule.

PTI supporters from KP are former/current ANP walas. PTI supporters in Karachi are former/current MQM supporters. And PTI supporters in punjab are army fanboys. Imran Khan himself would rather live in dictatorship then any other party ruling.



Not corruption but tax evasion, there is difference even though both are crimes. Tareen as well was disqualified for hiding assets and soon Aleem Khan of qabza group will be in jail. Both ATM of PTI will be gone. Now tell me what is the difference?

At least N league doesn't support terrorists.
I also don't know anyone in my circle who support N league yet they keep winning. I've noticed people in punjab who support PTI are army fanboys and love army rule.

PTI supporters from KP are former/current ANP walas. PTI supporters in Karachi are former/current MQM supporters. And PTI supporters in punjab are army fanboys. Imran Khan himself would rather live in dictatorship then any other party ruling.



Not corruption but tax evasion, there is difference even though both are crimes. Tareen as well was disqualified for hiding assets and soon Aleem Khan of qabza group will be in jail. Both ATM of PTI will be gone. Now tell me what is the difference?

At least N league doesn't support terrorists.
sir g salute!!!

what justification Tareen is Chor so i am ok with nawaz ki choori! wow!!! Fk PTI but tax evasion corruption money laundering takes opportunities away from youth and turn them into terrorist! your fking leader is creating terrorsits and yet you support him!!!

CHAAA GAYE APP!
 
And you think PTI supports terrorists?

Yes they do. Matter of fact is PTI pro TTP stance made them win in KP and loss in punjab. In fact I used to support PTI before Imran Khan suggested TTP to open offices in Islamabad so they can inform us after killing innocent people.
 
I think i am gonna start saving enough money that just before elections I am gonna announce free food for a vote and then I shall be the president of Pakistan.
 
Yes they do. Matter of fact is PTI pro TTP stance made them win in KP and loss in punjab. In fact I used to support PTI before Imran Khan suggested TTP to open offices in Islamabad so they can inform us after killing innocent people.

You are fool to think that KPK voted PTI because of any pro-taliban stance. People that were affected the most by terrorists attacks will want a pro-terrorists group to rule them, like seriously? that has got to be the most idiotic logic. Plus give me just 1 statement where IK or any PTI member said that we support terrorists or we support Taliban.

As for the office, why did US let Taliban open office Qatar? Does that mean the US is also supporting the Taliban?

Finally i am extremely happy that you are no longer a supporter of PTI, as we need people with atleast some common sense in the party. N-League is the party that is most suited to your personality.
 
You are fool to think that KPK voted PTI because of any pro-taliban stance. People that were affected the most by terrorists attacks will want a pro-terrorists group to rule them, like seriously? that has got to be the most idiotic logic. Plus give me just 1 statement where IK or any PTI member said that we support terrorists or we support Taliban.

As for the office, why did US let Taliban open office Qatar? Does that mean the US is also supporting the Taliban?

Finally i am extremely happy that you are no longer a supporter of PTI, as we need people with atleast some common sense in the party. N-League is the party that is most suited to your personality.

Well you have to be a complete idiot to keep voting for the same people who have ruled you for 19+ years. I'm from Punjab and every time I go there it hasn't changed much at all in the last 20 years. In fact crime has shot through the roof and health facilities are still poor as ever.

Pakistan will never move on until the people use their brains and vote for someone who actually wants to get rid of corruption and improve the living standards for everyone. Too many idiots are happy when someone builds a road near their homes but will not complain if there are no hospitals or good education.
 
Well you have to be a complete idiot to keep voting for the same people who have ruled you for 19+ years. I'm from Punjab and every time I go there it hasn't changed much at all in the last 20 years. In fact crime has shot through the roof and health facilities are still poor as ever.

Pakistan will never move on until the people use their brains and vote for someone who actually wants to get rid of corruption and improve the living standards for everyone. Too many idiots are happy when someone builds a road near their homes but will not complain if there are no hospitals or good education.
@DJ_Viper
 
These people include many Abbassis and gujjars under the lead of mahtab, murtaza abbasi, sardar yousaf and other mpas other than local people of haripur.

this excuse doesn't make any sense, Nawaz is likely to get more votes from Hazara then punjab relatively speaking.
 
you need to go to mental hospital if you think haripur is a village

its true haripur is going to vote for nawaz because it feels threatened from KPK govt

what pakistan needs is more provinces and presidential system

You don't even know much about KP politics and talk about mental hospital. Read this piece

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/247223-looking-at-2018

I already told you all this last week but this guy went further ahead and did more research to expose your and other potis propaganda and lies.
 
As people become educated, corruption decreases hence they don't attend the rallies of corrupt politicians. This education includes proper Islamic education so people become moral, basic education of the harms of corruption and good primary and secondary education so people gain the intelligence to recognise self-serving thieves who are masquerading as leaders who represent us.

Does that proper Islamic education means that you take a few thousand religious nutt cases out to seize the capital of your country, and make the entire nation of 200 million people look like idiots on the global media? I don't know another nation on this planet that would allow it so casually every few months.Protest is everyone's right, but protest and go home. Not protest and take over a nation's capital with a few thousand people.

Or does the religious education means that people under the name of teaching religion, abuse children, a fact I've in fact had reports on, years ago, specifically in the KPK where there are 5000 madrassas? The religious values have nothing to do with the topic here. You have people here who abuse women do Alcohol and Drugs, and they lead parties trying to bring "change" when the Whiskey is high up in the nose.

Who isn't self serving thief in your society? I just gave you two examples of the "religious masters" above and another one, the opposite of religion. Who else is left?

You want the truth? You guys don't have tolerance, and aren't democratic or systematic. When you don't have tolerance, anyone who feels "hurt" calls a few thousand of his followers and attacks your capital. Or wants to take down the government to bring their guy. You guys don't know team work. Look at Indians, they know national spirit and team work. I can write books on here on the team work I've seen in Indians. So until you have the decency as a nation to understand and agree to a different point of view, and to tolerate someone you dislike for his or her term, you will always be like this. Sadly, Bangladesh is above your GDP and much above in Political Stability. Pakistan, in terms of Stability has been going down since the 70's....now the comparison is what? Tanzania and Sudan or Afghanistan? That's actually very sad. I don't thin 90% of you guys would care to think how deep of these truly are if you think about these.

You guys don't have sense of brand and reputation and a national spirit. There are the only two spirits that I've learned about in Pakistan, the military spirit and the individual spirit. Everyone wants "their guy" to be on the top. No one every gives a damn about the policies of anyone else or a previous one who may have turned out to be good, had they been given time. It takes 1-2 years to build policies for nation wide issues. It takes about 3-5 years to implement them. Which is why the Americans, majority of the time elect a president for 2 terms / 10 years. Why? So that person has a full chance of implementing his policies. In your society, there is so much bullshit of sects, ethnic drama and political bullshit that even someone wanting to work, finds themselves in a situation where they are busy dealing with overhead than working. Too much talk, little action. Sorry, I had to be blunt. But I cut it out for you. You can cut and butcher my post and I know it won't matter to you because it hasn't in the past 70 years.
 
Does that proper Islamic education means that you take a few thousand religious nutt cases out to seize the capital of your country, and make the entire nation of 200 million people look like idiots on the global media? I don't know another nation on this planet that would allow it so casually every few months.Protest is everyone's right, but protest and go home. Not protest and take over a nation's capital with a few thousand people.
The response from the leadership was delayed but that doesn't mean that every Pakistani was happy with what happened. A lot of people disagreed with the way that these protesters (or rioters, as they behaved like) responded to the incident. Still, what happened was embarrassing.

Or does the religious education means that people under the name of teaching religion, abuse children, a fact I've in fact had reports on, years ago, specifically in the KPK where there are 5000 madrassas? The religious values have nothing to do with the topic here. You have people here who abuse women do Alcohol and Drugs, and they lead parties trying to bring "change" when the Whiskey is high up in the nose.

Religious values, if implemented correctly, would not allow for this. It is shameful that these things happen in a country that prides itself as an Islamic republic when in fact, it is far from such a thing. These child abusers, alcoholics, drug abusers etc. are not behaving as Muslims, let alone decent human beings should behave. That's why a proper education system needs to be put in place so people gain the intelligence to behave normally and a religious education will teach them proper Islamic etiquettes so they behave as Muslims should.

Who isn't self serving thief in your society? I just gave you two examples of the "religious masters" above and another one, the opposite of religion. Who else is left?

There are people from all walks of life in Pakistan that are not self-serving, including politicians. I was referring to Nawaz Sharif.

You want the truth? You guys don't have tolerance, and aren't democratic or systematic. When you don't have tolerance, anyone who feels "hurt" calls a few thousand of his followers and attacks your capital. Or wants to take down the government to bring their guy. You guys don't know team work.

Indeed, Pakistanis could do with a lot more tolerance but that doesn't mean we're completely intolerant. People from different faiths live in peace together but like in any country, there will be incidents and in Pakistan, it is mainly terrorists who are enemies of the nation that attack Pakistani minorities. Also, how can we not have team-work when you said yourself that we can call upon a few thousand to help us do things?

So until you have the decency as a nation to understand and agree to a different point of view, and to tolerate someone you dislike for his or her term, you will always be like this. Sadly, Bangladesh is above your GDP and much above in Political Stability. Pakistan, in terms of Stability has been going down since the 70's....now the comparison is what? Tanzania and Sudan or Afghanistan? That's actually very sad. I don't thin 90% of you guys would care to think how deep of these truly are if you think about these.

I agree we need to be more accepting and tolerant but I wouldn't say 90% don't care about how far behind we're lagging especially compared to our potential.

You guys don't have sense of brand and reputation and a national spirit. There are the only two spirits that I've learned about in Pakistan, the military spirit and the individual spirit. Everyone wants "their guy" to be on the top. No one every gives a damn about the policies of anyone else or a previous one who may have turned out to be good, had they been given time. It takes 1-2 years to build policies for nation wide issues. It takes about 3-5 years to implement them. Which is why the Americans, majority of the time elect a president for 2 terms / 10 years. Why? So that person has a full chance of implementing his policies. In your society, there is so much bullshit of sects, ethnic drama and political bullshit that even someone wanting to work, finds themselves in a situation where they are busy dealing with overhead than working. Too much talk, little action.
I wish I could say more than just "I agree" but I don't know what more I can add.

Sorry, I had to be blunt. But I cut it out for you. You can cut and butcher my post and I know it won't matter to you because it hasn't in the past 70 years.
Please don't be sorry. Thank you very much for taking the time to give such a detailed response. I appreciate it and will take your points in mind.
 
The response from the leadership was delayed but that doesn't mean that every Pakistani was happy with what happened. A lot of people disagreed with the way that these protesters (or rioters, as they behaved like) responded to the incident. Still, what happened was embarrassing.

That was my point. You see, a nation is like a family. And a family has a lot of issues, who gets more love from parents, who gets inheritance, property disputes, etc, (you can apply these to national level politics of power). So just like a family has a house and we say that mind your business within the 4 walls of you home, its the same thing for a nation. There is a home called the parliament where representatives of the entire family can go in, fight for that property and all. But no one cares. Because that is the place. In American congress, people get cussed out, in India parliament, people fight all the time. Have you ever seen a global media butchering their reputation in a negative way? Even Bangladesh? NO! But when a few thousand people with beards start to close down your capital.....what do you think you'd see? "Talibans near Islamabad". And it scares people. So again, your nation needs to realize the respect for that house, where a family goes and fights about its issues. That's not the GHQ, that's the Parliament. And this house has people who gave it to one person / party or another. Period. And the rest should wait for their term. WAIT....the most difficult thing I've never seen the Pakistani nation do. But wait.... it the essence to success as a nation. Every few months, a few thousand people march towards your capital, is not a show you want to display on global media or want to have in your society. It shows lack of tolerance and a pretty extremist mentality that a few people think they are above the majority".


Religious values, if implemented correctly, would not allow for this. It is shameful that these things happen in a country that prides itself as an Islamic republic when in fact, it is far from such a thing. These child abusers, alcoholics, drug abusers etc. are not behaving as Muslims, let alone decent human beings should behave. That's why a proper education system needs to be put in place so people gain the intelligence to behave normally and a religious education will teach them proper Islamic etiquettes so they behave as Muslims should.

I will stay out of the religion for now with only one comment. I've shown you, and you've sadly known, majority of your religious people have agendas. ALL of your politicians and generals have agendas too. You can't fool yourself with the religious debate again and again when its being used for violence, raping children, corruption, etc. You have to see the purpose here. Its the $$. There is absolutely no one, out of ALL of your mainstream leaders, who is clean. This includes people who have slogans of building "new Pakistan". I have a bunch of Pakistani doctor friends who support Mr. Khan from here. If I can tell you their complains and how many millions were given for charity and no record was provided and they went to personal accounts, you'd be shocked. The day the United States IRS opens an investigation into funding of Ik's party from the US, I can say it with confidence, a lot of people would get deported from the US, including citizenship cancelled. So back to the core....all these people are humans and you can't fools them with this religious conversation. $$ is $$ and it trumps, add power to it and everyone wants it. The powerful want it even more!!



There are people from all walks of life in Pakistan that are not self-serving, including politicians. I was referring to Nawaz Sharif.

See above. Who isn't self serving? If I see NS, I do see someone like Trump (business background), who came in, built the infrastructure which is the core foundation for growth for any nation, built electric systems and now its continuing on. So whats the big deal if he made money? Who hasn't? IK, Zardari, Generals? So you have to help me here, who in Pakistan is "clean". I would love to know. Because I know for a fact, no one is and I won't expect anyone to. These are powerful roles, everyone wants $$!


Indeed, Pakistanis could do with a lot more tolerance but that doesn't mean we're completely intolerant. People from different faiths live in peace together but like in any country, there will be incidents and in Pakistan, it is mainly terrorists who are enemies of the nation that attack Pakistani minorities. Also, how can we not have team-work when you said yourself that we can call upon a few thousand to help us do things?

Are you sure this is true? Give me 5 names of Minority politicians who are in federal minister posts over the past 10 years. And give me 5 names of minorities who have commanded your Army. Give me 5 names of top brain Surgeons who are minority. Give me 5 names of Police Chiefs who came from minorities.....

You'd have given me the names if you guys were systematic and if that was to be the case, just like India, there would've been a couple of "Singhs" from Pakistan who would've commanded your Army too, or ran your country even on a sitting post like the President. But in this confusion of being an Islamic Republic, where true meaning of Islam isn't really followed by all top leaders from all areas, and the corrupt people to be frank, and add the worldly things like quest for power and money, it seems as the whole nation is confused. So who is the escape goat for the year? Nawaz Shariff :(. That's actually pretty sad. Because this euphoria will end, the spin given to public will end, 5 more years or 4 more years will pass by and another show will be initiated to keep the people of Pakistan divided by WITHIN. If you can resolve that, you can resolve anything across the globe. The power struggle is from within, not from the outside.

Ever thought that why is it that every neighbor of Pakistan literally hates her? I can understand the Indians. That clear. But Afghans that you took care of for 40 years, Iran, who just tries to stay clear and not get into it with Pakistan but internally they do not like you guys. Why is that? Some thinking would find the magic answer.
 
That was my point. You see, a nation is like a family. And a family has a lot of issues, who gets more love from parents, who gets inheritance, property disputes, etc, (you can apply these to national level politics of power). So just like a family has a house and we say that mind your business within the 4 walls of you home, its the same thing for a nation. There is a home called the parliament where representatives of the entire family can go in, fight for that property and all. But no one cares. Because that is the place. In American congress, people get cussed out, in India parliament, people fight all the time. Have you ever seen a global media butchering their reputation in a negative way? Even Bangladesh? NO! But when a few thousand people with beards start to close down your capital.....what do you think you'd see? "Talibans near Islamabad". And it scares people. So again, your nation needs to realize the respect for that house, where a family goes and fights about its issues. That's not the GHQ, that's the Parliament. And this house has people who gave it to one person / party or another. Period. And the rest should wait for their term. WAIT....the most difficult thing I've never seen the Pakistani nation do. But wait.... it the essence to success as a nation. Every few months, a few thousand people march towards your capital, is not a show you want to display on global media or want to have in your society. It shows lack of tolerance and a pretty extremist mentality that a few people think they are above the majority".
I don't entirely agree with your argument and you're glossing over similar global events to malign Pakistan. Don't you remember the anti-Trump protests and the ongoing protests in India about that bollywood film? Perhaps you haven't since international media (especially American) don't focus on it nearly as much as they focus on protests in Pakistan. As soon as they find out it is a protest related to Islam, they start going crazy.

I will stay out of the religion for now with only one comment. I've shown you, and you've sadly known, majority of your religious people have agendas. ALL of your politicians and generals have agendas too. You can't fool yourself with the religious debate again and again when its being used for violence, raping children, corruption, etc. You have to see the purpose here. Its the $$. There is absolutely no one, out of ALL of your mainstream leaders, who is clean. This includes people who have slogans of building "new Pakistan". I have a bunch of Pakistani doctor friends who support Mr. Khan from here. If I can tell you their complains and how many millions were given for charity and no record was provided and they went to personal accounts, you'd be shocked. The day the United States IRS opens an investigation into funding of Ik's party from the US, I can say it with confidence, a lot of people would get deported from the US, including citizenship cancelled. So back to the core....all these people are humans and you can't fools them with this religious conversation. $$ is $$ and it trumps, add power to it and everyone wants it. The powerful want it even more!!
Like, I've said, the proper following of Islam would not allow for this. Islam is about aiming to please God, not fulfilling selfish desires. There are hundreds of millions of Muslims around the world who strive for this mindset and no doubt, there are many in Pakistan as well. You will not find allowance in Islam for these immoralities and violence is only permitted in exceptional circumstances so the problem lies in the individual, not the religion.
I do agree though, that there are many in Pakistan who just think about worldly gains and this needs to change.



See above. Who isn't self serving? If I see NS, I do see someone like Trump (business background), who came in, built the infrastructure which is the core foundation for growth for any nation, built electric systems and now its continuing on. So whats the big deal if he made money? Who hasn't? IK, Zardari, Generals? So you have to help me here, who in Pakistan is "clean". I would love to know. Because I know for a fact, no one is and I won't expect anyone to. These are powerful roles, everyone wants $$!
What good is a leader who does not try their best for a country? People are absolutely right to reject the leadership of someone whose primary objectives are to enrich their own lives and their lives of their family members at the expense of the rest of the population. I could make the same blind argument about every human on this planet by merely assuming they are selfish and corrupt because of the actions of a few. I could easily say that every American will sell their values for monetary gain, like so many of your congressmen and women do.


Are you sure this is true? Give me 5 names of Minority politicians who are in federal minister posts over the past 10 years. And give me 5 names of minorities who have commanded your Army. Give me 5 names of top brain Surgeons who are minority. Give me 5 names of Police Chiefs who came from minorities.....

You'd have given me the names if you guys were systematic and if that was to be the case, just like India, there would've been a couple of "Singhs" from Pakistan who would've commanded your Army too, or ran your country even on a sitting post like the President. But in this confusion of being an Islamic Republic, where true meaning of Islam isn't really followed by all top leaders from all areas, and the corrupt people to be frank, and add the worldly things like quest for power and money, it seems as the whole nation is confused. So who is the escape goat for the year? Nawaz Shariff :(. That's actually pretty sad. Because this euphoria will end, the spin given to public will end, 5 more years or 4 more years will pass by and another show will be initiated to keep the people of Pakistan divided by WITHIN. If you can resolve that, you can resolve anything across the globe. The power struggle is from within, not from the outside.

Pakistan is a country that is 90% Muslim so it's hardly surprising that their aren't many non-Muslims in positions of power. That doesn't make it intolerant, does it? Do you think your country would ever allow a Muslim to become president? Look how few minorities are represented in American politics.

There have been many non-Muslim leaders in the army (admittedly none becoming a chief of army staff but it's not like it's happened in America or India) like Major Generals Julian Peter and Noel Israel Kokhar and Major Hercharn Singh despite how small the Christian and Sikh community is in Pakistan.
Shahbaz Bhatti, who was sadly killed by the TTP (who are enemies of the state) was the federal minister for minorities affairs and Tridev Roy was a loyal Buddhist politician. How does India compare with it's 20+% of minorities?

Ever thought that why is it that every neighbor of Pakistan literally hates her? I can understand the Indians. That clear. But Afghans that you took care of for 40 years, Iran, who just tries to stay clear and not get into it with Pakistan but internally they do not like you guys. Why is that? Some thinking would find the magic answer.
Ah, because Pakistan is just that one neighbour whose to blame for all the hatred and enmity in the neighbourhood, isn't it?
It's almost funny how you gloss over so much to make Pakistan look like the one that causes all this trouble in the region. Whilst Pakistan is clearly to blame in part for the mess in Afghanistan and the Kashmir issue as well as terrorism in the region, it is far from the only party responsible.

America entered Afghanistan to fight its war with the USSR which led to mass deaths and destruction in Afghanistan. America is the one supplying masses of arms to our Eastern enemies and tilting a delicate balance of regional power to cause instability at the expense of Pakistan. I could go on to describe the malicious activites of our neighbours but that is well known.

With respect, you are speaking as the embodiment of US foreign policy: Treating one party as the sole cause of problems while putting words in the mouths of nations that don't want you to represent them and would have a much better chance of achieving peace without you. You even attempt to try to speak for Iranians while as their neighbours who share cultural and religious links, Pakistan know much more about them than America.
 
I don't entirely agree with your argument and you're glossing over similar global events to malign Pakistan. Don't you remember the anti-Trump protests and the ongoing protests in India about that bollywood film? Perhaps you haven't since international media (especially American) don't focus on it nearly as much as they focus on protests in Pakistan. As soon as they find out it is a protest related to Islam, they start going crazy.

So what happened here? You were factually arguing with me and now the discussion went to Hollywood, Bollywood and blames. Care to answer my questions so may be I can be better educated vs. "the propaganda against Pakistan"? I am here to listen. You are here to make a case so I can understand the reality. I am smarter than you think I am. If you can present facts, I know what right and wrong are. Please answer my original questions. Thank you.

Like, I've said, the proper following of Islam would not allow for this. Islam is about aiming to please God, not fulfilling selfish desires. There are hundreds of millions of Muslims around the world who strive for this mindset and no doubt, there are many in Pakistan as well. You will not find allowance in Islam for these immoralities and violence is only permitted in exceptional circumstances so the problem lies in the individual, not the religion.
I do agree though, that there are many in Pakistan who just think about worldly gains and this needs to change.

I agree with you on the notion of Islam and what it stands for. I don't think there is doubt. And same goes for Christianity and Judaism. None of these religions teach hate and wars. But they are done by people under the name of religions when these are personal agendas. Which is why I believe religion is and should be a personal thing. Doesn't need to be enforced on others so that the wars and all can stop as no God wants us to kill humans.

But the point was that I showed you, from your religious elite, to political elite, to the military elite, they follow the religion for whatever degree and that's fine. They ALL follow and love $$. So it the human nature. So how do you distant that and who is left "clean" here when everyone is naked in the locker rooms.....?


What good is a leader who does not try their best for a country? People are absolutely right to reject the leadership of someone whose primary objectives are to enrich their own lives and their lives of their family members at the expense of the rest of the population. I could make the same blind argument about every human on this planet by merely assuming they are selfish and corrupt because of the actions of a few. I could easily say that every American will sell their values for monetary gain, like so many of your congressmen and women do.

How do you know that someone didn't try the best and who are you referring to? Let's build a list of work that helps the average citizen and that would tell us how much they have actually worked and how hard. You see, there is only one measure of success in a nation. When stuff gets build. You can't hide highways, roads, airports, nicer hospitals, etc, etc. That is progress for a nation as everything creates jobs. Under Trump, we are in another construction boom since the 1959. Every highway you go to, is being expanded, every clogged up artery main road is now being built as a highway, etc. So this is where a daily wage worker to a highest paid engineer and architects make money. If under construction is a hospital, that would create thousands of nursing, medical / doctors, staff, finance, down to janitor level jobs. So its very easy to see someone's progress. Just see what was built under them. Give me the name and I can pull a list of deeds for them as we call it.


Pakistan is a country that is 90% Muslim so it's hardly surprising that their aren't many non-Muslims in positions of power. That doesn't make it intolerant, does it? Do you think your country would ever allow a Muslim to become president? Look how few minorities are represented in American politics.

1: You keep comparing somehow India and America to Pakistan. Allow me to be clear, you are no where close. Not even 99.9% close. I can't understand why would you do this unless you really have any logic here. But avoid that please. These are time tested democracies. You guys aren't a democracy yet. The day a civilian government is allowed 5 years, and allowed to build policies independently, that's when you'd become democratic.

Back to touching on your question quickly, which sounds silly if you knew anything about the American government, its 30-45% at the State level based on minorities. Muslims aren't the main minority here. They are less than 1% so its silly to add the word Muslims in there as if this was our major minority. We have blacks, hispanics, American Indians and Indians (your neighbors) in larger numbers. Why there aren't Muslims in seats? Because you guys live here and do exactly what you do in Pakistan. Which is nothing. While Indian kids, from 15 years, are trained to be a leader later in life, they volunteer, they do everything that a future Senator or a President of the US (unless we see another billionaire) is doing. All minorities vote heavily. Muslims, less than 30% vote. No lobby, etc. So unless the Muslims realize they need to be added to the political stream, for which they have to work for, no one is going to go to their homes and beg them to participate. Muslim doctors make millions, but outside of building mosques or a free clinic, their contribution to the American society is limited. I've seen many school's auditoriums with Indian names, meaning someone donated a lot of money for good. But how come I don't see that from a Muslim businessman or rich family? They want to be involved, they have to do the good stuff everyone else does right? But somehow, you guys don't want to give up money :cheers:. So unless you spend some, no one's going to show too much love as you've cut yourself out as a population from the rest of the country.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...ss-sets-new-high-for-racial-ethnic-diversity/

There have been many non-Muslim leaders in the army (admittedly none becoming a chief of army staff but it's not like it's happened in America or India) like Major Generals Julian Peter and Noel Israel Kokhar and Major Hercharn Singh despite how small the Christian and Sikh community is in Pakistan.
Shahbaz Bhatti, who was sadly killed by the TTP (who are enemies of the state) was the federal minister for minorities affairs and Tridev Roy was a loyal Buddhist politician. How does India compare with it's 20+% of minorities?

I asked specifically for people who made it to the highest ranks and a few of them from each side. Why does the law stop non Muslims from getting to the top? Sadly there are laws you guys have in place. Are we saying the human born into a Pakistani Christian family would be less of a human being and not mentally sharp enough because they are a minority? Are we saying that this child doesn't and shouldn't have the same growth potential compared to your own child? If yes, isn't it against the basic principles of Islam to not discriminate among people?

Ah, because Pakistan is just that one neighbour whose to blame for all the hatred and enmity in the neighbourhood, isn't it?
It's almost funny how you gloss over so much to make Pakistan look like the one that causes all this trouble in the region. Whilst Pakistan is clearly to blame in part for the mess in Afghanistan and the Kashmir issue as well as terrorism in the region, it is far from the only party responsible.

America entered Afghanistan to fight its war with the USSR which led to mass deaths and destruction in Afghanistan. America is the one supplying masses of arms to our Eastern enemies and tilting a delicate balance of regional power to cause instability at the expense of Pakistan. I could go on to describe the malicious activites of our neighbours but that is well known.

AHHH! My favorit 50 years old story. The Afghan war, next to my favorite story of Aladin from probably a 100 years ago. Yes, we did what was needed for the Afghan war with you guys jumping in with joy and scared of the Russians to cross you over by sheer size, in a month to Karachi. So we are guilty of you not becoming Russia. That's fine. And so was the Mujahedeen created. Ok, I can see that.

Do you grow as a person or will you always be the same age? Have you seen you age go up? Just like that the maturity goes up. Now use the wisdom God gave you for a minute. For the past 50 years, we left you with the Mujahedeen, we get that. But what did you do to not invite that mess more as a country? Today, you are saying to US that you can''t do XYZ because of your national interests. Which I can understand. Why did this not come out in the Afghan war? Because you were protecting your OWN home from getting eaten up by the Red Bear!!!! Which is why Afghan's hate you because they feel like you fought your war through them on their soil and at the end you walked away. So who to blame here :(. I would love to hear a proper logic here. So

Second, a civilian government makes growth, employment and other aspects of a country. You guys haven't done any of that till recently. A military government is totally incapable of doing so as that's asking a Car Mechanic to operate a Stock Market. Two different skills. So back to my basics, if you HAD a real system and people were allowed their terms, then you'd see that their policies worked. Today's infrastructure designs outside of CPEC, are primarily from 1997 I believe as I have seen these files. So the globe has made transition to leaps and bounds. India went from one of the lowest end countries to the top 3rd economy in these 20 years. And you guys are implementing those 20 year old infrastructure projects today as those create the foundational print for future growth. How late???? Now tying this back, if the dictators weren't there, the civilians, just like this time and 20 years ago, would've put a different narrative and would've continued to grow the nation and everyone would be busy vs. joining the jihad. So you can't throw everything on Americans when your nation has no freaking clue in terms of its future goals and that they need to work as a nation, not groups, to achieve something. I see it clearly in the US. Indians, Bangladeshis work very well as a team, they own an amazing amount of real estate. Then there are the Pakistanis. Outside of being doctors and build individual wealth, there are a handful who have made a name for themselves. That's pretty sad. Your nation is all individual based because all your life, you see dictators and in your minds, its always a one man show. When in reality, its a team work. Until your nation doesn't agree to working together and Sindh and Pashtuns and all end their issues and work as Pakistanis, we'd be sitting here blaming America for all of your internal divide. I am surprised no one blamed the big earth quake on the USA 10 years ago :-). Again, you nation need to work and act as one nation and have tolerance for others and openness to minorities and all. Until you open your hearts, it will be like this.


With respect, you are speaking as the embodiment of US foreign policy: Treating one party as the sole cause of problems while putting words in the mouths of nations that don't want you to represent them and would have a much better chance of achieving peace without you. You even attempt to try to speak for Iranians while as their neighbours who share cultural and religious links, Pakistan know much more about them than America.

If you look above, the topic is Pakistan. So I am addressing what I am seeing in Pakistan. If you want to talk about India, which has grown tremendously, but has internal issues, please open up a new thread. But if you decide to answer my post. Do stay rational please.
 
So what happened here? You were factually arguing with me and now the discussion went to Hollywood, Bollywood and blames. Care to answer my questions so may be I can be better educated vs. "the propaganda against Pakistan"? I am here to listen. You are here to make a case so I can understand the reality. I am smarter than you think I am. If you can present facts, I know what right and wrong are. Please answer my original questions. Thank you.

What was your original question then? Do you want me to dig up hundreds of articles over the past decade to show you the propaganda dished out against Pakistan? I don't understand what you're trying to get at but it's not my job to cure willful ignorance.

I agree with you on the notion of Islam and what it stands for. I don't think there is doubt. And same goes for Christianity and Judaism. None of these religions teach hate and wars. But they are done by people under the name of religions when these are personal agendas. Which is why I believe religion is and should be a personal thing. Doesn't need to be enforced on others so that the wars and all can stop as no God wants us to kill humans.
What are you referring to?

But the point was that I showed you, from your religious elite, to political elite, to the military elite, they follow the religion for whatever degree and that's fine. They ALL follow and love $$. So it the human nature. So how do you distant that and who is left "clean" here when everyone is naked in the locker rooms.....?
What does this mean?


How do you know that someone didn't try the best and who are you referring to? Let's build a list of work that helps the average citizen and that would tell us how much they have actually worked and how hard. You see, there is only one measure of success in a nation. When stuff gets build. You can't hide highways, roads, airports, nicer hospitals, etc, etc. That is progress for a nation as everything creates jobs. Under Trump, we are in another construction boom since the 1959. Every highway you go to, is being expanded, every clogged up artery main road is now being built as a highway, etc. So this is where a daily wage worker to a highest paid engineer and architects make money. If under construction is a hospital, that would create thousands of nursing, medical / doctors, staff, finance, down to janitor level jobs. So its very easy to see someone's progress. Just see what was built under them. Give me the name and I can pull a list of deeds for them as we call it.

You're getting it very wrong. Making a few building and roads isn't going to provide a long-term solution to a country's problems nor does it solely dictate a country's progress. Progress is based on the distribution of wealth and social progress which a few short-term, low-level jobs won't significantly contribute to. Education and welfare are the primary factors that determine progress.

We see a few hospitals being built but not even those who build them will use them which says a lot about how little faith they have in the country they claim to represent.

1: You keep comparing somehow India and America to Pakistan. Allow me to be clear, you are no where close. Not even 99.9% close. I can't understand why would you do this unless you really have any logic here. But avoid that please. These are time tested democracies. You guys aren't a democracy yet. The day a civilian government is allowed 5 years, and allowed to build policies independently, that's when you'd become democratic.
You're chastising me for comparing those countries when you are the one who brought them up. Pakistan is not close to India and America in terms of development but I wouldn't get giddy and carried away with myself claiming we're "99.9% off". You also don't seem to understand what a democracy is and are making up your own definition. Pakistan isn't a great democracy but is a democracy nonetheless. We elect representatives and can (and have) gotten rid of them when we haven't had confidence in them.

Back to touching on your question quickly, which sounds silly if you knew anything about the American government, its 30-45% at the State level based on minorities.
Prove it

Muslims aren't the main minority here. They are less than 1% so its silly to add the word Muslims in there as if this was our major minority. We have blacks, hispanics, American Indians and Indians (your neighbors) in larger numbers.
You specifically mentioned religion so that's what I compared in terms of. In terms of ethnicities, you'll have to define what a minority is in Pakistan. If you mean anyone that isn't Punjabi then minorities are represented in Pakistan proportional to how many of them vote in the election, of course bearing in mind that corruption is rampant (but that's fine as long as buildings are made, right?)

Why there aren't Muslims in seats? Because you guys live here and do exactly what you do in Pakistan. Which is nothing. While Indian kids, from 15 years, are trained to be a leader later in life, they volunteer, they do everything that a future Senator or a President of the US (unless we see another billionaire) is doing. All minorities vote heavily. Muslims, less than 30% vote. No lobby, etc. So unless the Muslims realize they need to be added to the political stream, for which they have to work for, no one is going to go to their homes and beg them to participate. Muslim doctors make millions, but outside of building mosques or a free clinic, their contribution to the American society is limited. I've seen many school's auditoriums with Indian names, meaning someone donated a lot of money for good. But how come I don't see that from a Muslim businessman or rich family? They want to be involved, they have to do the good stuff everyone else does right? But somehow, you guys don't want to give up money :cheers:. So unless you spend some, no one's going to show too much love as you've cut yourself out as a population from the rest of the country.
Just gonna ignore this bit due to ignorance driven racism.

Ah, I also came across that. Well, if you choose to trust pew research then you should also read these parts from that link:

"Overall, nonwhites (including blacks, Hispanics, Asians/Pacific Islanders and Native Americans) make up 19% of the current Congress. By comparison, nonwhite Hispanics and other racial minorities make up 38% of the nation’s population."

"House minority increases have largely come among newly elected Democrats, though Republicans have also seen an uptick. Since 2001, the number of House Democrats who are minorities increased by 27, from 56 then to 83 now. There was an increase of eight representatives among House Republicans over the same period, rising from four then to 12 now."

Despite the increase in nonwhite representation in Congress, whites account for 81% of the current Congress but represent just 62% of the population. This gap has widened over time. In 1981, 94% of Congress was white, compared with about 80% of the U.S. population.

I asked specifically for people who made it to the highest ranks and a few of them from each side. Why does the law stop non Muslims from getting to the top? Sadly there are laws you guys have in place. Are we saying the human born into a Pakistani Christian family would be less of a human being and not mentally sharp enough because they are a minority? Are we saying that this child doesn't and shouldn't have the same growth potential compared to your own child? If yes, isn't it against the basic principles of Islam to not discriminate among people?
How can a non-Muslim head a state that is Islamic by constitution?

AHHH! My favorit 50 years old story. The Afghan war, next to my favorite story of Aladin from probably a 100 years ago. Yes, we did what was needed for the Afghan war with you guys jumping in with joy and scared of the Russians to cross you over by sheer size, in a month to Karachi. So we are guilty of you not becoming Russia. That's fine. And so was the Mujahedeen created. Ok, I can see that.

Do you grow as a person or will you always be the same age? Have you seen you age go up? Just like that the maturity goes up. Now use the wisdom God gave you for a minute. For the past 50 years, we left you with the Mujahedeen, we get that. But what did you do to not invite that mess more as a country? Today, you are saying to US that you can''t do XYZ because of your national interests. Which I can understand. Why did this not come out in the Afghan war? Because you were protecting your OWN home from getting eaten up by the Red Bear!!!! Which is why Afghan's hate you because they feel like you fought your war through them on their soil and at the end you walked away. So who to blame here :(. I would love to hear a proper logic here. So
Read my previous post again

A military government is totally incapable of doing so as that's asking a Car Mechanic to operate a Stock Market. Two different skills. So back to my basics, if you HAD a real system and people were allowed their terms, then you'd see that their policies worked. Today's infrastructure designs outside of CPEC, are primarily from 1997 I believe as I have seen these files. So the globe has made transition to leaps and bounds. India went from one of the lowest end countries to the top 3rd economy in these 20 years. And you guys are implementing those 20 year old infrastructure projects today as those create the foundational print for future growth. How late???? Now tying this back, if the dictators weren't there, the civilians, just like this time and 20 years ago, would've put a different narrative and would've continued to grow the nation and everyone would be busy vs. joining the jihad. So you can't throw everything on Americans
How did what I say in any way imply that I was blaming everything on Americans or any other country? You don't seem to understand that Pakistan isn't to blame for every one of its problems. Our neighbouring countries as well as other countries who interfere in our affairs are to blame as well.

I see it clearly in the US. Indians, Bangladeshis work very well as a team, they own an amazing amount of real estate.
You'll have to see an optician for that I'm afraid.
Also, a significant part of Bangladesh's progress is due to Pakistanis
https://www.dawn.com/news/655674


Like I should have done in the beginning, I will take your points as from the viewpoint of a conservative American rather than an objective observer. I value your responses and do consider them

@Irfan Baloch

@Dazzler
 
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