How's the China politics look like in my eyes.

[TaiShang]

Co-nee-chee-wa, @Nihonjin1051 ,glad to receive your comment. However, it's 7:00 am at my place and it's time for my work, a big case, need at least 5 days. Maybe I could find some gap-time to answer your question( Emm ...really a lot of complex question that I have no confidence to answer all of this), or I'll reply you when my work finished.

Nice to meet you guys all, @Nihonjin1051 ,@LeveragedBuyout @jkroo and so on, see you next week!

My friend, you are acting like a 12 years-old, and your naivety amounts to an injustice to yourself. Before posting here and there about certain opinions, you should have had an extensive browsing of the forum, get to know people, their convictions and agendas -- and only then start posting.

You still have a chance to do that. But, you have already ruined a lot of credibility.

You should be very careful so that you would not be easily swayed to this or that direction by some clever questions and comments by others with certain anti-China agendas. Your naivety and inexperience clearly leads you to a direction where opinion would be "extracted" from you. In the end, This would not make you a better scholar but a more useful pawn.

Do not be gullible by having a false sense of "meaningful communication" on this forum -- or any other international forum, for that matter. People will start asking tricky questions when they realize your naivety and understand that they could "extract" responses that they would like to hear from you and that would assist their own agendas.

Just step back a little, read more, and stop acting like a 12 years old. No body is your friend here and no body is here to learn from you, alright? There is no pure academic interest and value/politics free debate. People have agendas.

It is fine if you have an agenda. But, for that to become viable, you first need to stop being treated like a gullible here.

 

[ningbo]

I is reported that Hua Guofeng is son of Mao Tsedong. is this true ?

haha of course,It's joke.

 

[xunzi]

I never cared about ideologies, whether political or economic ideologies.

The only thing I care about, is WHAT WORKS.

And China's current system WORKS. It has lifted over 800 million Chinese people out of poverty in the last few decades, which is a feat that no other country has done before, in all of human history.

And, very importantly, the Chinese government is fully willing to reform and adapt this system, to match the constantly changing situation within China and the world. Check out Xi Jinping's current reform momentum for an example.

That is the main principle of China, "seek fact from the truth".

 

[key-CN]

Emm....these young HK protester look so familiar in my memory, remenber？culture revolution.

They are young, easy to be fanned, gathered to be force, with endless passion, be opinionated, radical, never learn to be compromise in negotiation, they don't even know what politics really is.

45 years ago(1968), this kind of student heard Mao's call. with Mao's political support, they walk on the street, kill their teachers, governors, and somebody others un-within their side, for beat down the established un-communism authority. My god, they did this for communism, but they even did not know what communism really is. They rob police and army men for guns(police dare even not to arrest them because of the "politics right" in that decade), later these students have factions, lead by different ideal madman or careerist, they shoot each other, piece each other with knives, and torch poor political weaker ones, thousands died per day, totally anarchism.

they did everything ugly to chase their ideal, but they did not even know what their ideal is. No matter what the ideal is, communism, capitalism, democracy, freedom, human right, all of it are bullshit. They just want to vent their adrenaline.

We have got enough lesson from this, and this will never back to stage, teenagers should not to be spoiled. If they did legally, they are a joke. If they did illegally, police are waiting for them.

How old are you？1968 Where are you？Where do you listen to these things？

 

[Kolaps]

I think I have answered a few times on this forum already on the issue of whether China is communist. The answer is yes, it still is. Too many people, especially younger ones, has a rather limited view on what exact communism is (or what capitalism is, for that matter) and somehow come up with the conclusion that China is no longer communist or China is capitalist. I will attempt to answer this again.

First of all, the bottom line. Political structures of nations are ever evolving and many countries will continuously adopt principles that yields benefit, regardless of which school of thoughts the principles originated. Hence communism/capitalism today wouldn't be the same as communism/capitalism in the 1950s and they certainly wouldn't be the same as their 19th century counterpart.

The core of communism lay within in two things, common (state) ownership of material for production or absence of social class. The former is easy to understand. State ownership of material of production is a characteristic seen in all socialism branches and pretty much all countries in the world has these to some degree.

The second part is a bit more tricky and frankly each country has its own interpretation. While Karl Marx originally envision an economy is completely free of money, class and social status, in practice, no one actually follows this vision strictly. The reason is that Marx's original vision depends on the government to be able to coordinate all economic activities within a nation down to small details and it just couldn't be done realistically, especially for large nations like USSR or China. Now, this isn't to say the idea doesn't have its merits. From Chinese perspective, there is very tangible benefit in reduction of difference in class and social status. The reason is that Chinese culture has historically trust meritocracy more than any other form of government. Reduction of class/social status difference just means you gets a bigger pool of candidates available for selection.

These are really the core principles that defines communism. There are additional principles Chinese like to follow, the most famous one is Mao's "any political theory must be considered with respect to actual situation in China", but broadly speaking, China today still follows the same core principle and ideas.

The biggest problem with people like the OP is that they somehow got the idea that political structure is this rigid and unchanging system and any deviation from it is criticized as betraying principle or lie. The reality is far different. In order for a country to flourish and prosper, it must continuously adapt itself to the changing environment, both external and internal.

What kind of opinion is this?

Communism is a failure and disastrous ideology.

Plz, not to talk it anymore, no one worship Stalin and Lenin anymore, as well as Mao Zedong.

Only idiot and mentally ill people who worship them.

Sound like a genius, but inside is empty.

What about Hong Kong protested issue? Shouldn't China let Hong Konger choose their own government ?

P.S: My experience with Hong Kong people in the U.S is that they despise CCP. And my history professor are from Hong Kong

Everyone despise CCP.

Except mainlanders.


We only see mainland as China, not the foreign worshiper CCP.

WOLF to Chinese civilization and DOG to foreigners!

 

[key-CN]

I know how to fight communism but i'm not stupid to fight and die while someone will take the glory. Vietnamese communist is much bad than Chinese . There is no secret only pick up arms and overthrow government.

Do you have a better choice ?This is the level you think you can govern the country?

 

[Kolaps]

I never cared about ideologies, whether political or economic ideologies.

The only thing I care about, is WHAT WORKS.

And China's current system WORKS. It has lifted over 800 million Chinese people out of poverty in the last few decades, which is a feat that no other country has done before, in all of human history.

And, very importantly, the Chinese government is fully willing to reform and adapt this system, to match the constantly changing situation within China and the world. Check out Xi Jinping's current reform momentum for an example.

Agree!

China will return to their real identity of being Chinese.

Chinese civilization and Confucianism.

What means democracy? The true democracy means the power to the people.

We don't need those political tools under the name of "democracy" to exploit and to fool our people.

CPC's current system works perfectly, I don't see any change in the next 50 years.

And do people believe that the US is a true democratic nation?

The US gives their stupid peasants an illusion that they have the true democracy with those fake rigged elections. Both Democrats and Republicans actually work for the same boss. Only the gullible idiots can believe that they have the freedom and human right just because they can vote one of those same puppets that the corporations present in front of you.

Democracy is US.

US is democracy!

 

[key-CN]

I disagree，“Communism is a failure and disastrous ideology”Socialist society in the future will be the template.Socialism requires sufficient material basis and cultural foundation.There are external environment of public opinion.U.S. does not have this material basis too.Implementation requires a long process.

 

[Edison Chen]

Welcome to PDF, @Tang Yi , and a very nice analysis of the situation. I have joked for a while here that the CCP actually stands for the Chinese Capitalist Party, and it sounds like you share the same perspective. Your pragmatic viewpoint reminds me of two other esteemed Chinese users here, @Chinese-Dragon and @Edison Chen , and I suspect that you will get along with them. I look forward to reading more of your contributions.

Brilliant photograph, and very amusing. Was the photographer punished for mocking the CCP?

Interesting. Whatever it's called, capitalist or communism, you cannot just skip such stage of social development - the accumulation of capital, the manufacturing. One of the major factors deciding Chinese official's promotion and rank is how much capital they can bring in, how many new investment or project are launched under the authorization of them. Even our PM is performing the role of salesman when visiting foreign countries. We officially call it "Chinese style communisim", in fact it's state capitalism.

 

[Kolaps]

Emm....these young HK protester look so familiar in my memory, remenber？culture revolution.

They are young, easy to be fanned, gathered to be force, with endless passion, be opinionated, radical, never learn to be compromise in negotiation, they don't even know what politics really is.

45 years ago(1968), this kind of student heard Mao's call. with Mao's political support, they walk on the street, kill their teachers, governors, and somebody others un-within their side, for beat down the established un-communism authority. My god, they did this for communism, but they even did not know what communism really is. They rob police and army men for guns(police dare even not to arrest them because of the "politics right" in that decade), later these students have factions, lead by different ideal madman or careerist, they shoot each other, piece each other with knives, and torch poor political weaker ones, thousands died per day, totally anarchism.

they did everything ugly to chase their ideal, but they did not even know what their ideal is. No matter what the ideal is, communism, capitalism, democracy, freedom, human right, all of it are bullshit. They just want to vent their adrenaline.

We have got enough lesson from this, and this will never back to stage, teenagers should not to be spoiled. If they did legally, they are a joke. If they did illegally, police are waiting for them.

In my opinion, the men who should be blamed in HK protest to be happened, are mainland journalists.


Before the protest happened, there's battles in the HK media between pro-Beijing vs pro-democracy for years.

And pro-democracy won, the student protest is the evidence.

Agree if young student is easily to be manipulated.

Pro-Beijing media and mainland journalist unable to prevent it to be happened.


Mainland education produced Book Smart, Street Stupid kind of graduates, including journalist.

That is why!


Don't blame young people, it's adult people mistake. Mainland own mistake.


In Taiwan the same thing happened, pro-democracy onslaught pro-reunification media.

After being attacked by pro-democracy media, many times I'm waiting for the counter attack, to defend United China and all Chinese people... but none, if there, it's a very clumsy and stupid article.

 

[tranquilium]

Interesting. Whatever it's called, capitalist or communism, you cannot just skip such stage of social development - the accumulation of capital, the manufacturing. One of the major factors deciding Chinese official's promotion and rank is how much capital they can bring in, how many new investment or project are launched under the authorization of them. Even our PM is performing the role of salesman when visiting foreign countries. We officially call it "Chinese style communisim", in fact it's state capitalism.

Buddy, have you looked that guy's past posts? If you looked at them, you'd realize talking logic is not what he is looking for.

 

[tranquilium]

My friend, you are acting like a 12 years-old, and your naivety amounts to an injustice to yourself. Before posting here and there about certain opinions, you should have had an extensive browsing of the forum, get to know people, their convictions and agendas -- and only then start posting.

You still have a chance to do that. But, you have already ruined a lot of credibility.

You should be very careful so that you would not be easily swayed to this or that direction by some clever questions and comments by others with certain anti-China agendas. Your naivety and inexperience clearly leads you to a direction where opinion would be "extracted" from you. In the end, This would not make you a better scholar but a more useful pawn.

Do not be gullible by having a false sense of "meaningful communication" on this forum -- or any other international forum, for that matter. People will start asking tricky questions when they realize your naivety and understand that they could "extract" responses that they would like to hear from you and that would assist their own agendas.

Just step back a little, read more, and stop acting like a 12 years old. No body is your friend here and no body is here to learn from you, alright? There is no pure academic interest and value/politics free debate. People have agendas.

It is fine if you have an agenda. But, for that to become viable, you first need to stop being treated like a gullible here.

In my reply, I commented on young people doesn't necessary have the right understanding on things, but I didn't spend as much effort explaining it as you. Since you have mentioned it, I will add a bit more. Basically, there are a lot of catchy "facts" out there on the internet and tabloid. These are like the flashy colors in commercials. They are designed to attract viewers instead of delivering useful information. It is okay to treat them as funny jokes or humorous conversation piece, but if the purpose is an actual serious conversation, then these should be avoided like a plague.

And yeah, whether people are nice to you have really no bearing on the accuracy of the information. It is much better just sit back and watch on issues you are not very clear.

 

[Tang Yi]

What kind of opinion is this?

Communism is a failure and disastrous ideology.

Plz, not to talk it anymore, no one worship Stalin and Lenin anymore, as well as Mao Zedong.

Only idiot and mentally ill people who worship them.

Sound like a genius, but inside is empty.




Everyone despise CCP.

Except mainlanders.


We only see mainland as China, not the foreign worshiper CCP.

WOLF to Chinese civilization and DOG to foreigners!

it's too complicated to my poor English, I can only express in Chinese.
兄弟，你也是大陆的吧，看你之前的评论，台湾深蓝也不会像你这样说话的，不过不管怎么样，我还是先把你当个台湾人来回复吧。你可以看到那些抗议的主力军是学生们，虽然他们不是幕后煽动者。
为什么学生们次次成为抗议的主力军，为什么大陆媒体在他们那成为战五渣了？我认为原因有好几个：

1.学生们缺乏阅历，吃穿不愁，也还没到找不着工作就会养不起家没钱给孩子买奶粉的那个阶段，社会上实际的经济状况没法给他们以深刻的影响。相对于服贸啊，旅游业啊，代购啊给他们带来的好处（失业也不是一天陆客不来就失业啊），他们对能直接感受到的环境变差，陆客谁谁谁当街小便，隔壁家老王找了个大陆小三什么的印象更深一些。而现代传媒一个不好的地方就是，平均几百万人次出一例的事情，在足够大的基数下，也能有一年几十上百例了，平均每两三天能在媒体上看到一例，人们就会觉得这种事到处都是。反对派媒体只需要证有，我们是要证无，难度根本不在一个等级上，他们出个事就有材料用了，我们必须通过说理证明这种事很少。一个是感性了解就够了，一个是要理性思考，影响力和传播力都相差好大的。其实你们这帮别人称作搞"discussion group"的人天天发些中国成就的报道，刚开始还有点用，久了也就那样没用了，因为人家又不是商人官员，关心你个经济干什么？反而是天天看你们那些过激言论反感大增（恰好加深了人家关于大陆人素质低不nice，对他们充满敌意的印象），别人只会觉得共产主义疯子也崛起了，太可怕了！在我眼里很多中国id的评论充满暴发户气质，本质上还是不自信，真有优越感的话，别人骂的傻逼，根本就没法让我动怒。唉，真心觉得他们不是中国人。

2.学生们好清谈，而且peer pressure的效力很强。这导致容易产生统一的话题倾向，持不同意见者容易被孤立，甚至被欺负，少数派的。这样，这个话题就有生命力了，群体里对外界不同意见的报道也具有了很强的免疫力，除非发生大事，这种倾向在一段时间内极难转弯。其实这在美国也很多，比如非精英学校的孩子们讨厌别人说他成绩好，而是喜欢说他很popular，橄榄球打得好，是啦啦队队长什么的。尽管也有不少美国学者在媒体上疾呼美国陷入反智主义什么的，他们也没有什么变化，甚至觉得这些老头太过时了。而在台湾，经过那么多年的反共教育，这种潜移默化下的影响使得相应反陆议题成为了主流。而在香港，他们看不起大陆人好几十年了好吧，嘲笑大陆人本来就成为了他们的民间主流八卦议题。这和上海人看不起外地人，城里人看不起乡巴佬没什么本质不同。我们这边电视里天天喊帮助贫困山区孩子上学，网络里女人们（大陆35岁以上的妇女基本不泡论坛）天天在八卦厌恶“凤凰男”，搜一下这个词是什么意思吧。

3.democracy只是个工具，实际上抗议者是幻想抗议成功，可能社会上那些讨厌的陆客就能被清除出去，经济会好转什么的。香港还要特殊一点，1998年后亚洲乃至世界连着两个经济危机，好死不死香港是1997年回归的。加上大陆越来越不需要香港这个贸易中转站了，他们的经济出现各种问题。这种情况下民众本来就会抱怨政府，在民主国家这届政府就只能自认倒霉下台了事了，但威权政府不同，权力越大，责任越大，什么都管，百姓自然出什么事都只能抱怨政府没给解决好咯。香港不同于大陆的是，他们总认为自己还有另一条西式民主的路可以走，只要民主了，噢，万事都会改变啦，你看看隔壁阿三，社会不行还可以换执政党泄愤嘛，再看看隔壁日本，一年换俩，经济不好玩，我们可以“玩政治嘛”。

4.操他妈的中宣部，你以为就你们骂中宣战五渣啊？中宣部太僵化了，其实它如果只管给钱，让媒体能自由运作的话，情况会好很多（反正只要能卡住经济命脉不就能控制了吗？管那么细干嘛）。全中国所有的正式媒体都是事业单位（网易腾讯新浪什么的不属于正式媒体，只许转载不许独立采编报道），比公立企业（国企）都更行政化，你就把它看做是一个政府机构就对了。行政化，意味着媒体的领导，特别是台长社长什么的实质上是政府官员，你知道有的台长是从劳动局啊发改委啊什么局长，主任位置上平调过来的吗？这导致台长社长们做事什么时候都得小心翼翼如履薄冰，整个电视台说话要看上面手势的好不好？上面没手势，就不做事，因为多做多错不做不错。说错句话被政敌攻击，官帽子可能就保不住了。我用我的传媒专业知识玩点英文网站上的交流，都能被你们这帮外行骂做汉奸，你就能明白让中宣部以及其他外行官员制肘内行会出什么事了。（说句题外话，“乌有之乡”这个极左论坛被网监部门指示封掉了，你知道吗？就连傻逼都知道你们这样搞太傻逼了，完全在帮倒忙拉仇恨。当年抗战时中国人做政宣工作的多聪明啊，出了个文革后怎么变这傻了，搞统一战线的都知道和人谈话要先找共同点（和他们的政治正确拉上点关系会死啊？），要表现的足够有亲和力，等过段时间对方接受你了再逐渐说理影响他们，斗嘴讽刺只能导致骂战，观点还没抛出就会被人看低了，就和坛子里那个越南佬一样，情商太低。有个人在我那个文章下也要扯香港市民抗议问题，他等着的就是攻击中国不民主呢，我一把把话题扯到文革，就是把他们的旗帜和他们最恶心的东西攀上亲戚，同时通过贬低teenager来把这个争端引到西方社会比较熟悉头疼，并且赞同的teenager议题上来，这是为了留后路和拉支持，你到好，先前给个汉奸帽子，后面又来争teenager，我也是醉了）。

5.最后给个建议，也是我们学院派传媒人的一条基本素质：说人话！和农民在一起，要说农民的粗话脏话；和知识分子在一起，要说社会历史政治经济，和technical nerd在一起（实际上我也是），要说专业名词，和老外在一个坛子里聊，用语要符合他们的背景，要让他们能懂，我说“有人的地方，就有江湖”，改成了只要有超过两个人，就有派系斗争。我说中共其实一直在搞“党内共和”，不是他们以为的皇帝式一人独裁，我说的是长老会元老院，我说道教特点，总不能告诉他们飞升成仙吧。另外，我认为需要不用专业名词和马哲里的词语就能让他们搞懂你要说什么，这论坛里貌似不少老外学历太低，至于马哲里的生产资料什么的，老外有学过马哲吗？

6.你们这些海龟留学生啊，不知道国内论坛里的新名言么：强大者苦逼，弱小者享福，卖萌者得天下。

@TaiShang @key-CN ,我懒得一个一个专门回复了。

 

[Tang Yi]

How old are you？1968 Where are you？Where do you listen to these things？

only 31. But have read more than 4 boxes of book and magazine print in 1960-1985, like <harvest>《收获》，<October>《十月》, <Selected works of Mao Zedong>(version in culture revolution)《毛泽东选集》（文革期间版本哦）. Dude, I know what happened in those days, my family was attacked by those teenagers because my grandma was a Member of the Standing Committee of Hengyang city. The students even robbed my father's hat because he is a army man( a real army hat is a very important sign for red guards to show his or her identity, but in fact there were not so many places, many red guards was only "claim to be" guys. They eager to the hat for pretending).

 

[Audio]

Ok, I shall ask some other people here to confirm it.

Mr.Unfair&Biased just wants you to know, that you shouldn't think with your head too much.

And you would certainly not be the first one to post opinion and not merely news.