How will General Raheel Sharif be viewed after retirement.

[Razia Sultana]

In Pakistan a General can not be questioned during his tenure. In my personal opinion after the retirement of Gen Sharief three points will decide if he retains the respect he got as serving general.
1. Critical analysis of op Zarb-e-Azb
2. Action he took against India's Surgical Strike
3. In which country his children opt to settle in
This question should have been put on the date of his retirement to get a balanced response. Given current circumstances Gen Sharief is most likely to continue in office.

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

He may not retire......

 

[Amaa'n]

But dr asim and ayan ali were only the begining... Infact he made those statements, publicly , much aftre these two arrests were amde... I think he wanted to, but couldnt do it.. Thts why i think he should have been more careful before giving these statements, because he raised our expectations very high.. Most recently, on 6th sep sefence day this yr too, he again said peace cant come without eliminationg corruption.. He kept saying these things, but couldnt follow up, with his actions..
Other than this, i think he did a brilliant job.. Esp being from karachi, i am very grateful to him, for restoring peace in karachi
But its only his anti corruption drive, where i expected much more from him, but he couldnt deliver, for whatever reasons

You are actually looking at the wrong side --- he did say he will break the nexus between corruption & Terrorism & he did break the nexus ---- he never said he will throw away Politicians to the darkest dungeons ---- but he did throw away the terrorists ---- what was happening in Karachi on extortion was in front of us, and today we stand in place where very rare cases of extortion are reported ----- Tangos were coordinating with local gangs to move their much need Firearms in & out of city, but with Rangers' action, that is gone too

He may not retire......

possible Sir, if he sees the incoming General, who would not be able to fill in his boots & a Political Govt so weak at foreign diplomacy , then he will have no other option

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

possible Sir, if he sees the incoming General, who would not be able to fill in his boots & a Political Govt so weak at foreign diplomacy , then he will have no other option

It has nothing to do with the incoming General.
It's all about what the country needs...
Pakistan has priority over any personal agenda.

Let's wait and see.

 

[saiyan0321]

In Pakistan a General can not be questioned during his tenure. In my personal opinion after the retirement of Gen Sharief three points will decide if he retains the respect he got as serving general.
1. Critical analysis of op Zarb-e-Azb
2. Action he took against India's Surgical Strike
3. In which country his children opt to settle in
This question should have been put on the date of his retirement to get a balanced response. Given current circumstances Gen Sharief is most likely to continue in office.

Well musharraf was very much questioned during his tenure and was beaten despite having all the power in the world. The media campaign against him changed our media forever and made it into a pillar of power. The courts and lawyers. The lawyers are amongst the institutions that take credit for his downfall. We have questioned them in their tenure and we have glorified them after their tenure as well.

Many people cite kiyani. Although many don't like kiyani and yes he had flaws but I hold kiyani in a high regard. Two things kiyani faced and solved that he had inherited from musharraf. One was that when musharraf finally fell, there was a chasm between the people and the army. The chasm was growing wider with no inkling of any bridge being made. The people hated the army bcz the army was attacking its " own people" aka terrorists and the lal masjid operation ( they beg now army to do ) created major hate for the army. Since our inception, there has not been such hate. Kiyani bridged the gap. He recreated love for the army through the armies humanitarian efforts. This went a long way. A long long way. He also took steps towards depoliticizing the army and keeping the army away from politics thus even when memogate happened, he did not do martial law. When the most corrupt govt in pakistan history looted the nation, he did not do martial law. When the people begged army to save them from PPP and came on the streets, he did not do martial law.

The second problem that he was able to solve out was Baluchistan. Kiyani inherited a troubled province with insurgents but with great help from janjua, the insurgency was choked and nearly annihilated. He also took further steps with janjua to bring development to Baluchistan as well as increased induction of baluch in the military and paramilitary.

The third problem he inherited was war in terror against groups whose prowess and skills were not to be underestimated. Well supplied, well trained and experienced especially in that terrain, they were a force to be reckoned with. With an army of suicide bombers under their command, they were unleashing hell on pakistan. His operations in FATA actually laid the ground work for success of zarb e azb but they were unable to get the success of zarb e azb and don't think he enjoyed the support raheel got against terrorists. The nation was under a period of delusions till 2011.

Kiyanis downfall were a few.

Imran khan criticizing him and branded him corrupt and in league with N which turned entire PTI supporters against him.

The Osama operation.

The drone strikes.

The constant suicide attacks and failure of operations in fata curb these attacks.


As for raheel.

I think he will be revered and be branded a hero. He will never turn to politics and he will not take extension. He has done little wrong in his tenure to be criticized.

Your first point. Yes critical analysis may come to play but the results which have been more than satisfying and expected will cover any criticism. Such results have not come before in previous operations and with focus being on reforms in FATA, I doubt something serious will happen to turn public opinion.

2nd. Point. Pakistan and the Pakistani people deny and question the credibility of the strike and unless India gives harrowing evidence of its happening, I am afraid little debate will happen on this when he retires.

Don't think that will matter. His fame from FATA operations will cover that. It may come to question but I seriously doubt it.

He will retire. He has said so thus it will happen. TBH I would ignore the war mongering of the media and social media. The situation will likely deescalate.

Escalation, if it happens, at best will be a border conflict but I doubt it will be at the level of 2002.

 

[RAMPAGE]

He should definitely retire. There must be a good replacement that can be endorsed by him. Doesn't have to be a very senior one.

We must not stand between the great General and the dignified comfort of his home's study.

 

[Max]

2. Action he took against India's Surgical Strike in bollywood

Corrected.

Greatest Punjabi General and thorough Gentlemen ever, this is how a Punjabi should be....this is how a Pakistani should be.

Plz refrain from using Punjabi, Sindhi etc when you talk about National army, @waz @HRK @WAJsal @Irfan Baloch

 

[Razia Sultana]

Well musharraf was very much questioned during his tenure and was beaten despite having all the power in the world. The media campaign against him changed our media forever and made it into a pillar of power. The courts and lawyers. The lawyers are amongst the institutions that take credit for his downfall. We have questioned them in their tenure and we have glorified them after their tenure as well.

Many people cite kiyani. Although many don't like kiyani and yes he had flaws but I hold kiyani in a high regard. Two things kiyani faced and solved that he had inherited from musharraf. One was that when musharraf finally fell, there was a chasm between the people and the army. The chasm was growing wider with no inkling of any bridge being made. The people hated the army bcz the army was attacking its " own people" aka terrorists and the lal masjid operation ( they beg now army to do ) created major hate for the army. Since our inception, there has not been such hate. Kiyani bridged the gap. He recreated love for the army through the armies humanitarian efforts. This went a long way. A long long way. He also took steps towards depoliticizing the army and keeping the army away from politics thus even when memogate happened, he did not do martial law. When the most corrupt govt in pakistan history looted the nation, he did not do martial law. When the people begged army to save them from PPP and came on the streets, he did not do martial law.

The second problem that he was able to solve out was Baluchistan. Kiyani inherited a troubled province with insurgents but with great help from janjua, the insurgency was choked and nearly annihilated. He also took further steps with janjua to bring development to Baluchistan as well as increased induction of baluch in the military and paramilitary.

The third problem he inherited was war in terror against groups whose prowess and skills were not to be underestimated. Well supplied, well trained and experienced especially in that terrain, they were a force to be reckoned with. With an army of suicide bombers under their command, they were unleashing hell on pakistan. His operations in FATA actually laid the ground work for success of zarb e azb but they were unable to get the success of zarb e azb and don't think he enjoyed the support raheel got against terrorists. The nation was under a period of delusions till 2011.

Kiyanis downfall were a few.

Imran khan criticizing him and branded him corrupt and in league with N which turned entire PTI supporters against him.

The Osama operation.

The drone strikes.

The constant suicide attacks and failure of operations in fata curb these attacks.


As for raheel.

I think he will be revered and be branded a hero. He will never turn to politics and he will not take extension. He has done little wrong in his tenure to be criticized.

Your first point. Yes critical analysis may come to play but the results which have been more than satisfying and expected will cover any criticism. Such results have not come before in previous operations and with focus being on reforms in FATA, I doubt something serious will happen to turn public opinion.

2nd. Point. Pakistan and the Pakistani people deny and question the credibility of the strike and unless India gives harrowing evidence of its happening, I am afraid little debate will happen on this when he retires.

Don't think that will matter. His fame from FATA operations will cover that. It may come to question but I seriously doubt it.

He will retire. He has said so thus it will happen. TBH I would ignore the war mongering of the media and social media. The situation will likely deescalate.

Escalation, if it happens, at best will be a border conflict but I doubt it will be at the level of 2002.

Thanks for proving me right. People in your country have been shot at for questioning Army and people at PDF have been banned for being critical of Pak Army. Your negative rating goes on to prove what I have said.

 

[saiyan0321]

Thanks for proving me right. People in your country have been shot at for questioning Army and people at PDF have been banned for being critical of Pak Army. Your negative rating goes on to prove what I have said.

Well first of all I can't give negative ratings.

Second of all. Our army can be criticized very easily. Perhaps once this was a thing and I won't deny the fact that journalism in pakistan is dangerous in which a huge factor plays into political thuggery who often attack, coerce and kill investigative journalists. I have seen our media everyday and our army is criticized when they make a mistake. For example, during musharraf era the army was criticized a lot, during the lal masjid operation the army was vehemently criticized and during the tenure of 2010-14 the army was criticized even then at every intelligence failure and attack.

I live here in pakistan and I watch our analysts and I watch the news. Were you aware that the army was criticized when Quetta blast happened along with the federal and provincial govt.

In the end you can believe whatever you want and I am not here to convince you. I have stated that our army does not escape criticism. After the mehran base attack, the army was criticized intensely.

 

[Razia Sultana]

Corrected.

There was no surgical strike by India or it was a usual cross border firing.....escalating it or playing it down is all part of the action by the Pakistan establishment. Actually I will term it as a very prudent move to deny any surgical strike as this will give Pakistan an opportunity not to play into Indian hands.

 

[saiyan0321]

One more thing. @balixd its your call to whom you give negative ratings to but that post didn't have any content that deserved a negative rating. It wasn't a troll post. I answered her points one by one. I would request that you reconsider.

We are all frustrated at the flurry of Indians trolling and new juvenile Indian trolls joining the forum and mucking a perfect place for reasonable discussion but we can't take our frustration out like that. Believe me my signature showcases how annoyed I am.

Its your call dude.

 

[Razia Sultana]

Well first of all I can't give negative ratings.

Second of all. Our army can be criticized very easily. Perhaps once this was a thing and I won't deny the fact that journalism in pakistan is dangerous in which a huge factor plays into political thuggery who often attack, coerce and kill investigative journalists. I have seen our media everyday and our army is criticized when they make a mistake. For example, during musharraf era the army was criticized a lot, during the lal masjid operation the army was vehemently criticized and during the tenure of 2010-14 the army was criticized even then at every intelligence failure and attack.

I live here in pakistan and I watch our analysts and I watch the news. Were you aware that the army was criticized when Quetta blast happened along with the federal and provincial govt.

In the end you can believe whatever you want and I am not here to convince you. I have stated that our army does not escape criticism. After the mehran base attack, the army was criticized intensely.

I retrieve my offer of thanks, it was an oversight hence the error but it remains to the one who has rated.

The criticism of army during Musharraf era was due to the fact that army had merged with political leadership. Lal Masjid operation was against hardliners who supported TTP. Today they are on war with your army. Exceptions don't change the rule.

 

[Amaa'n]

One more thing. @balixd its your call to whom you give negative ratings to but that post didn't have any content that deserved a negative rating. It wasn't a troll post. I answered her points one by one. I would request that you reconsider.

We are all frustrated at the flurry of Indians trolling and new juvenile Indian trolls joining the forum and mucking a perfect place for reasonable discussion but we can't take our frustration out like that. Believe me my signature showcases how annoyed I am.

Its your call dude.

i think that was just a mistake or glitch, i never clicked the rating button---- not sure what happened -----i removed the rating -----
has happened me once, a thread i did not even visit & Icarus post was rated -ve he PMed saying dude wth why you rated -ve -----

 

[Max]

There was no surgical strike by India or it was a usual cross border firing.....escalating it or playing it down is all part of the action by the Pakistan establishment. Actually I will term it as a very prudent move to deny any surgical strike as this will give Pakistan an opportunity not to play into Indian hands.

sanghi, why Indian army dont forcing us to play in their hand by releasing proofs?

 

[saiyan0321]

I retrieve my offer of thanks, it was an oversight hence the error but it remains to the one who has rated.

The criticism of army during Musharraf era was due to the fact that army had merged with political leadership. Lal Masjid operation was against hardliners who supported TTP. Today they are on war with your army. Exceptions don't change the rule.

I can see why you would be skeptical and call it an exception rather than the norm. Allow me to highlight army criticism in three different eras with each era having different relations with the political leadership.

The first is musharraf era where the Army as you stated was completely political. In musharrafs era, the concept of a free media and free judiciary gained a lot of ground which started a strong anti musharraf and anti army campaign. When war in FATA began in 2004, the army was criticized and the people's sympathy was with the terrorists and as time passed by, the lal masjid happened. You are right it was against hardliners but at that time, the people saw the army as the aggressor and a monster attacking innocent Islamic people. No operation did more harm to the army's repute than lal masjid and the army was chastised and the leadership of the army criticized. This was just one of the events.

Then comes the non political era of general kiyani. Kiyani was also criticized due to the massive increase of suicide attacks, destruction caused by TTP and various failures at intelligence levels. When mehran base happened, the media analysts and news anchors were spewing criticism of the armed forces and some very harsh things were being said. This is just one of the examples.

Then comes general raheel with slight political era. When Hamid mir was shot, the media GEO went into a hate campaign of unprecedented levels against the army that the people themselves were shocked. They stopped, not bcz of threats, but bcz of the public outrage at that. In his era, few things have gone wrong so can't criticize.

As I stated I can understand your skepticism. 9 years of press freedom as compared to 61 years of not is an imbalance but I can assure you that army now can be criticized and will be criticized if something happens. A few points on corruption within army have also been highlighted especially when the good general tool action against some very high ranking officers against corruption. There were 11 of them if I remember correctly.



However I will also tell you that right now any chasm that existed between the army and the people during Kate days of musharraf is gone. The people adore the armed forces.

We have drifted far off topic. As I stated, its upto you to believe.

i think that was just a mistake or glitch, i never clicked the rating button---- not sure what happened -----i removed the rating -----
has happened me once, a thread i did not even visit & Icarus post was rated -ve he PMed saying dude wth why you rated -ve -----

I can understand that. On another forum, every negative rating I have ever given is due to me using the touch pad in speed when I am on my mobile, I often end up clicking the button unknowingly.

Alls well that ends well.