How Vietnamese still suffer thanks to America. Documentary

[mike2000]

I beg to differ with you here,as more and more confrontations with China is increased,Vietnam will be pushed towards the extreme which is US and ultimately will join with US and so will most of the Southeast asian countries who don't want to be under dominating China.
As far as Russia is concerned its true it wont take sides when it comes to China,but it doesn't want China to outgrow Russia to an extent that it becomes a threat.
US should start accommodating the concerns of other nations bullied by our communist saint (who can do no wrong) and encourage the affected parties to have some kind of strategic dialogue to increase co-operation between these countries.
By the way congratulations on Scotland Referendum.

Yes i do hope Vietnam sides/joins with the U.S with time as you said as much of south east Asia has done, However, im not sure Vietnam that will happen, since Vietnam still finds it hard to abandon/anger their old patron Russia and theres also officals in VCP who are still kind of pro China(want a closer partnership with China and the party, so this complicates matters).

Vietnam should understand that in politics/geo politics, there are no permanent friends only permanent interests. So if your ineterests doesnt match anymore with one country, move towards the one with whom you both have common interests. Theres no shame in that, thats how politics works. So Vietnam doesn't owe Russia anything. so it shouldn't feel beholden to Russia or whatever, allying with the U.S will be to its interests.



And thanks for the referendum congrats. we are still the UNITED KINGDOM.(U.K flag).

 

[terranMarine]

that scumbag PM better keep his promises to the Scottish people

 

[Aepsilons]

Xi Jinping is moderate, while everyone knows that Abe is far right.

Abe Shinzo: Japan’s New Prime Minister a Far-Right Denier of History 安倍晋三　新しい日本の首相は極右の歴史否定論者 :: JapanFocus

Abe is a moderate nationalist. In fact, some Americans would consider him a 'Democrat'. Far right members of the Diet are pro-isolationist , anti-immigration, purists. Abe, who has visited literally a quarter of the worlds' countries, has a personal relationship with non-Japanese leaders such as Abbott, Modi-Ji, Obama, Putin, Aquino, Hollande, Brown, is the anti-thesis of a Right Winger. In fact, Abe is an internationalist, and aggressive in policies that what he feels would help the economy. He is the same prime minister that is considering raising immigration to Japan up to 200,000 a year.

This is something that is unheard of as compared to past leaders such as Koizumi, Fukuda et al.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

An alliance of Viet Nam, Japan, South Korea, and the US will be a powerful check on China. As how Japan and South Korea prospers under capitalism and democratic processes, so will Viet Nam.

The air forces and navies of Japan+SK+Vietnam+India+Philippines is merely equal to that of China, their GDPs and ground forces less. Vietnam will prosper as much as Thailand did. The difference in GDP between China and Vietnam is 4 times greater than the difference in GDP between the US and Mexico.

 

[terranMarine]

Soviet and Chinese spheres of influence were poor because the USSR and China were poor, thanks to WW2 and then being cut off from the Marshall plan for help in rebuilding. Most other countries with no help from the outside would've devolved into anarchy after such trauma - look at Libya. The US was untouched by WW2.

North Korea got it bad because of the sanctions, it was doing reasonable under China / USSR influence until USSR collapsed.

 

[Aepsilons]

North Korea got it bad because of the sanctions, it was doing reasonable under China / USSR influence until USSR collapsed.

It was doing good until Japan cut all trade ties with them in 2003. It cancelled a $30 Billion per year bilateral trade relationship.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

It was doing good until Japan cut all trade ties with them in 2003. It cancelled a $30 Billion per year bilateral trade relationship.

Nope North Korea was doing the worst in 1993-1996.

 

[terranMarine]

It was doing good until Japan cut all trade ties with them in 2003. It cancelled a $30 Billion per year bilateral trade relationship.

Economy of North Korea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Don't bet on it

 

[mike2000]

Its always an interesting balancing act , like a game chess, Mike-San. Who ever controls Vietnam, controls the policies in Laos and to an extent Cambodia. Given Thailand's recent warming of relations with China, it may be best to exert greater influence in other countries in ASEAN; Malaysia for example, to an extent Indonesia, and of course the Philippines.

I agree with Laos, but not sure with Cambodia, since it seems they are more inclined towards China now, as for Malaysia and Indonesia, its hard to say since they are both still neutral and seem more interested in their growing economic relationship with China, so they have little or no reason to join Vietnam in this regard, as for Thailand it has always been closer to China since it has always seen Vietnam as a greater threat to them for some reason, Philippines is the only viable candidate among all those you meantioned which i see fits that role, South korea would have also fit in had Japan been more forthcoming in its war crimes relations with it, plus South Korea also has very deep economic relations with the China.
Anyway Japan/U.S/Philippines are enough to counter Chinese influence in the pacific.

 

[gambit]

The air forces and navies of Japan+SK+Vietnam+India+Philippines is merely equal to that of China, their GDPs and ground forces less. Vietnam will prosper as much as Thailand did. The difference in GDP between China and Vietnam is 4 times greater than the difference in GDP between the US and Mexico.

There is no hard rule about this, but it is reasonably accepted that if a rival military is at least %50 of your own, it is time to reassess your ability to defeat that rival. Wise up, friend.

 

[Aepsilons]

Nope North Korea was doing the worst in 1993-1996.

That could be so. The imposition of bans on North Korea which took effect in 2004-2005 did have devastating consequences:

I agree with Laos, but not sure with Cambodia, since it seems they are more inclined towards China now, as for Malaysia and Indonesia, its hard to say since they are both still neutral and seem more interested in their growing economic relationship with China, so they have little or no reason to join Vietnam in this regard, as for Thailand it has always been closer to China since it has always seen Vietnam as a greater threat to them for some reason, Philippines is the only viable candidate among all those you meantioned which i see fits that role, South korea would have also fit in had Japan been more forthcoming in its war crimes relations with it, plus South Korea also has very deep economic relations with the China.
Anyway Japan/U.S/Philippines are enough to counter Chinese influence in the pacific.

The Cambodians remain , in my honest opinion, the achilles heel of the ASEAN community. I agree with you that the Cambodians hold a deep seated hatred for the Vietnamese, even the Thai. Which is ironic considering that it (Cambodia) is nothing but a shrimp among whales. If the Khmer leader Sam Rainsy takes power from Hun Sen, we we might see an interesting dynamic. Tho I am sure that Cambodia will remain part of Vietnam's political sphere of influence for the short to mid term.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

What about Egypt, Liberia, Nigeria, Mexico, Thailand, Panama, Honduras, Guatemala, etc?

Yes, what about these countries? Except for Mexico, every country is a member of the Non-Aligned Movement, so they are explicitly outside of the US sphere of influence. Most reasonable people would not consider Mexico to be impoverished.

Next time, explicitly explain your rationale for bringing these countries into the discussion. I can also name random countries, but it doesn't contribute anything to the discussion.

Hell, Vietnam was part of the US sphere of influence - South Vietnam used to exist. How did that work out? The North Vietnamese were not victims of Agent Orange.

No, the North Vietnamese were the victims of something far more insidious, namely, the sphere of influence of the Soviet Union. The South was under the sphere of influence of the US. Witness the results, even decades later:

According to this RAND study, South Vietnam's GDP grew at a CAGR of 15% between 1960-1967, and in 1968, had a GDP/capita comparable with South Korea, despite dedicating three times the percent of budget to defense that South Korea did. We all know how South Korea turned out, and we can only speculate about South Vietnam, but we do know how a unified Vietnam turned out under the Communists (i.e. Soviet influence).

Soviet and Chinese spheres of influence were poor because the USSR and China were poor, thanks to WW2 and then being cut off from the Marshall plan for help in rebuilding. Most other countries with no help from the outside would've devolved into anarchy after such trauma - look at Libya. The US was untouched by WW2.

And thus all the more reason to turn to the US instead of the USSR and China, but I cannot justify the thought process of Communist leadership. The USSR and China were poor for far longer than they needed to be because of their incompetent Communist leaderships. Moreover, they were unable to help their satellites develop economically. What are you arguing, exactly? I thought we were talking about why Vietnam is turning towards the US.

However, if you insist on diverting the conversation to US aid, I must point out that as much of an abomination it was ethically, Nazi Germany was able to rebuild despite its total devastation after WWI. Singapore was a poor swamp when it became independent, but it was under the US sphere of influence, and reasonable people can agree that Singapore is a prosperous country, despite not getting any Marshall Plan-style aid.

Libya was never under the US sphere of influence, so perhaps you'll explain why you've introduced it.

 

[xesy]

These are the real Vietnamese. The Vietnamese far right we see on these websites hates them. Many overseas Vietnamese despise and look down on real Vietnamese because they think they are the true inheritors of Vietnam, defeated only by "Vietcong treachery", when in reality, it was the weight of history turning against them. It is as inevitable as the tides that they be defeated. Rather than accepting their defeat in grace, and moving on, they would rather spite and hate one of Vietnam's greatest allies: China. They are trying to turn real Vietnamese against China now despite China's help to Vietnam in all fields. What they want to see, is Vietnam itself be destroyed, so that their original vision of Vietnamese as a subject people will be realized.

Who destroyed Vietnam? It was not Chinese. Who isolated Vietnam? Who stifled Vietnam's economic growth in the 70's and 80's? Was it China, who itself was poor and powerless at the time? Which nation attacked not only Vietnam's present, but also its future? Who not only attacked the soldiers, but civilians, children, and even the unborn? Who salted the earth of Vietnam in the hopes that nothing will grow again? Was it China? We all know the uncomfortable answer.

You really forget the scorched earth tatics of Chinese military during the 1979 war. It was serious more than any US bombing operation. For example, my hometown on the far north got bombed by the US 2 times during the war, and only 2 bridges got destroyed. And in the 1979 war, after the Chinese troops withdrew, the city was litterally left in rubble. All houses and buildings got totally demolished by explosive planted inside them.

Don't worry, we don't like both China and USA, but for now, China is hostile while US is friendly to us on the matter of sea dispute. Cannot bring old hatred into modern situation.

 

[TaiShang]

What is as disturbing, if not more, is the fact that the larger US population and regime remain unapologetic of the savagery and brutality the US inflicted upon Vietnam. A similar disgusting attitude is observable here.

That's why it is a rule that one should at least as much biting/retaliation power to reason with the US regime. Only the pure understanding of being inflicted harm will bring them to certain level of sanity.

 

[terranMarine]

What is as disturbing, if not more, is the fact that the larger US population and regime remain unapologetic of the savagery and brutality the US inflicted upon Vietnam. A similar disgusting attitude is observable here.

That's why it is a rule that one should at least as much biting/retaliation power to reason with the US regime. Only the pure understanding of being inflicted harm will bring them to certain level of sanity.

That attitude will remain for a very long time among the Americans. They talk about democracy and freedom, yet immorally won't hesitate applying chemical warfare on the opponents.