What's new

How Turkey got LUCKY with the F-35?

It's also possible that we're all deluded and Elon Musk is right. Perhaps the era of manned fighters is indeed over in favor of UCAV/drone warfare. If that's the case we're all wasting our money in rather stupid ways.

Elon Musk says military drones will outlive fighter jets

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/elon-musk-drones-fighter-jets

elon.png
Its pretty obvious that drones are the future just like in any motorized vehicle, more an more automation will replace humans and aircrafts are the ones with the highest potential in automation.
But that doesnt mean Turkey doesnt need figters anymore, we are still a couple generations away from fighters becoming obsolete.
 
I think contrary to Koreans we are more willing to tech sharing / transfer of technology. Any Indonesian cooperation with Turkish Aerospace would end up with a design team of Turkish and Indonesian engineers, and that helps because you can also shape up the doctrine the aircraft comes with.

I explained in a different thread about how we need a long range deep strike fighter and if the F-35 story will keep being a nightmare for our side I think there would be a major design overhaul in TFX project. F-35 was supposed to be the HIGH plane in the mix whereas TFX was to be LOW. Now everything has changed, so it would be logical for TFX to change as well.

Well you need to read my several posts above. KFX/IFX is indeed a collaboration program between Korea and Indonesia. Our engineers and Air Force are involved since 2011 and the last news about KFX/IFX said that around 114 Indonesian designers are in Korea. Not only that, but the work being done there are shared with Indonesian Aerospace office in Bandung and so many engineers there can learn the process as well.

Talking about possible collaboration with Turkey with its TFX program if Indonesia-Korea renegotiation is failed is very small. It is because we are under Jokowi who play little attention on research. It can be seen on how he want to renegotiate with Korea on KFX/IFX program because he want to reduce Indonesia financial participation. Our research is very small and the researcher is also not paid well (enough but still much smaller then working in MNC). I know it since my cousin work as researcher in our government research agency.

His administration will end in November 2024, so we have to wait until Indonesia has a new leader.
 
According to American scientific/engineering magazine Popular Mechanics, after YEARS of expensive development it turns out the F-35 still can't fly supersonic for more than a few seconds per flight because "it erodes its stealth coating and makes it detectable by radar". Just another issue to prove the fact that the F-35 is a complete fucking FAIL. :D

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a32304032/f-35-supersonic-flight/

super.jpg
 
According to American scientific/engineering magazine Popular Mechanics, after YEARS of expensive development it turns out the F-35 still can't fly supersonic for more than a few seconds per flight because "it erodes its stealth coating and makes it detectable by radar". Just another issue to prove the fact that the F-35 is a complete fucking FAIL. :D

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a32304032/f-35-supersonic-flight/

super.jpg

Which proves that attempting to build a proper 5th gen fighter jet is a seriously difficult task. The US had experience from F-22, yet they they still struggle with F-35. Russia is another example. I can't believe some countries without relevant industries think they can design & manufacture a serviceable 5th gen. fighter jet.
 
Which proves that attempting to build a proper 5th gen fighter jet is a seriously difficult task. The US had experience from F-22, yet they they still struggle with F-35. Russia is another example. I can't believe some countries without relevant industries think they can design & manufacture a serviceable 5th gen. fighter jet.
Well, the real world is a lot more complicated and often seem to defy logic. Germany, for example, was turned into a wasteland in WW1. Yet in only two decades, they reached a position to conquer all of Europe in WW2. History is full of such examples. Empires rise and fall all the time. I wouldn't underestimate ANY country with enough resolve to achieve a goal.
 
Well, the real world is a lot more complicated and often seem to defy logic. Germany, for example, was turned into a wasteland in WW1. Yet in only two decades, they reached a position to conquer all of Europe in WW2. History is full of such examples. Empires rise and fall all the time. I wouldn't underestimate ANY country with enough resolve to achieve a goal.

Germany had already attempted to conquer Europe in WWI with their military might and technological advancement and they retained their knowledge, expertise and know-hows to Hitler-era, so they could give it another go.

In fact, Germany improved their hardware expertise to the next level even after WWII. Losing a war and being annihilated do not necessarily mean that the country would lose their accumulated data, knowledge and expertise in engineering and science. Japan is another example.

A person must be ambitious and have resolve to achieve his or her goal, but it could be also just daydream if the person don't have relevant technologies, expertise and know-hows. I call him or her a fool. However, I also love fools yearn for the impossible.
 
Germany had already attempted to conquer Europe in WWI with their military might and technological advancement and they retained their knowledge, expertise and know-hows to Hitler-era, so they could give it another go.

In fact, Germany improved their hardware expertise to the next level even after WWII. Losing a war and being annihilated do not necessarily mean that the country would lose their accumulated data, knowledge and expertise in engineering and science. Japan is another example.

A person must be ambitious and have resolve to achieve his or her goal, but it could be also just daydream if the person don't have relevant technologies, expertise and know-hows. I call him or her a fool. However, I also love fools yearn for the impossible.
What happened to Ancient Egyptians? The Ancient Greeks? Sumerians? The Roman Empire? They were all pinnacles of civilization at their times. Nations do rise and fall. Technology, resources and opportunity for innovation changes hands. You mentioned Japan. Japan had nothing. No knowledge. No tech. No experience. And no resources. The samurai sword was its top weapon. Yet in the span of a few decades, a tiny island nation that couldn't safely traverse the Sea of Japan managed to occupy CHINA and take on the UNITED STATES in the pacific all in the one go.

What I'm trying to say to you is simple. Just because a country seems to have the edge NOW, doesn't necessarily mean it won't lose that edge to some other nation when the circumstances change.
 
You mentioned Japan. Japan had nothing. No knowledge. No tech. No experience. And no resources. The samurai sword was its top weapon. Yet in the span of a few decades, a tiny island nation that couldn't safely traverse the Sea of Japan managed to occupy CHINA and take on the UNITED STATES in the pacific all in the one go.y

What I'm trying to say to you is simple. Just because a country seems to have the edge NOW, doesn't necessarily mean it won't lose that edge to some other nation when the circumstances change.

The main weapon before firearms in Japanese battlefields was a bow(弓取り), not a sword. In fact, Japan was not an island of savages without any technology much as the rest of East Asia. Even then, it is true that it took decades for them to catch up with the rest of Europe and North America. By WWII, they had one of the largest aircraft carrier fleets in the world.

My point is countries like Korea, Turkey and many countries with their ambitious 5th gen. fighter jet projects are in the position where Japan was in decades ago. I said in other threads, but Japan flew its trainer jet with a domestic engine in 1960s. Have the countries such as Korea, Turkey and the rest ever built a jet with a domestic engine? Or at least a 3th gen or 4th gen trainer with a foreign engine? Okay, Korea have, but they had received assistance from LM. I mean they practically built the trainer for Korea. Hurjet is not even finished.

Falling of empires analogy is baloney. Established aerospace, materials and engine companies, despite of their setbacks (such as RR and GE), are not falling behind of new guys in the field. They are not empires in decline. The companies such as LM, BAe, P&W, RR and others have only consolidated their control over the market in the past few years.

Laughing at their highly advanced projects and believing you can achieve what they couldn't achieve in a short span of time is lunacy - especially when you are decades behind of them and barely in their position of 1960s.
 
F-35 Faces Parts Problems After Turks Expulsion

Lockheed-F-35-production-line-fm-above.jpg


WASHINGTON: It’s a familiar tale, if one told with fewer operational problems. The Government Accountability Office today details a $1.5 billion increase for 2019 in the F-35’s Block 4 costs — now up to $12.1 billion — and serious parts problems caused by the expulsion of Turkey from the Joint Strike Fighter program.

And that cost estimate may not be completely accurate, the GAO audit found, because “the cost estimate did not fully adhere to leading practices, such as including all life cycle costs.”


The program “is already addressing, to include: cost estimate baselines, risk and uncertainty analyses, and evaluation of Technology Readiness Levels for Block 4 hardware and capabilities,” Program Executive Officer Lt. Gen. Eric Fick said in a prepared statement.

But the bigger problem in the short term is that 15 key parts for the $428 billion F-35 program are “not currently being produced at the needed production rate.” How serious is this problem? How and how much will it slow production?


“The program has identified new sources for 1,005 parts produced by Turkish suppliers, but the program is assessing the effect of 15 key parts not currently being produced at the needed production rate,” the GAO audit found. I asked the JSF PEO for details and did not receive an answer by press time.

This comes on top of parts that continue to arrive late for production. The Defense Contract Management Agency found that “between August 2017 and July 2019, the number of parts delivered late increased from under 2,000 to more than 10,000. Contractors told the government that “roughly 60 percent of parts shortages are attributable to 20 suppliers.”


The other broadly significant finding by the GAO is that the program is “not meeting manufacturing leading practices identified by GAO. Specifically, only about 3,000 of the over 10,000 airframe contractor’s manufacturing key processes meet predefined design standards for ensuring product quality. Also, the fielded aircraft, over 500 so far, do not meet the program’s reliability and maintainability goals. Although the contractor is changing manufacturing processes to address problems and improve efficiency, more remains to be done. Unless the program office evaluates the risks of not meeting these leading practices, the military services and international partners are at risk of not receiving the quality aircraft they purchased.”

Boil that down — price is coming down, many, many fixes have been made to the Lockheed Martin aircraft, but the Air Force, Navy, Marines and many American allies and partners are getting aircraft that aren’t as good as they should be.

https://breakingdefense.com/2020/05/f-35-faces-parts-problems-after-turks-expulsion/

mess.gif
 

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom