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How to stop killing in the name of God

Solomon2

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How to stop killing in the name of God
October 30, 2013
By Avi Weiss
JTA News and Features

Belief in God is at the core of my being. But that belief is sometimes challenged by the scores of innocents killed in God’s name, from biblical times to the present day.

Last month, dozens were killed at a shopping mall in Kenya by terrorists demanding to know if those they were confronting were Muslim. If Muslim, they were spared; if not, they were murdered.

The day after the mall attack began, dozens of Christians were murdered at a prayer service in Pakistan.

And yes, though they are aberrations, it must be said there have been Jews who have murdered in the name of God, like the perpetrator of the Hebron massacre 20 years ago.

The late writer Christopher Hitchens cited horrors like these to argue that we are better off without God. It is an understandable reaction. But ethics derived completely from human civilization also have their weaknesses.

If ethics comes solely from the human being, from the human mind, from human reason — it is relative. As Freud is purported to have said, when it comes to self-deception, human beings are geniuses. If Hitler were asked whether the murder of 6 million Jews was ethical, he would say it was.

But even if ethics without God has its flaws, Hitchens’ challenge still must be addressed. Ethics with God often doesn’t seem much better.

There are, I believe, some necessary ingredients for a belief in an ethical God, a God whose ethics are critical to a just and better world, a God whose presence I always feel.

The first ingredient is that a true God must make room for believers in other gods. This is the position of Rabbi Menachem ben Shlomo Ha-Me’iri, who believed that all human beings demand equal protection, regardless of their faith, as long as they are “members of a society based on laws and morality.” In today’s terms, Me’iri is saying that we must treat every person, whatever the person’s belief or non-belief, as we would a fellow Jew.

The second criterion is that God must welcome, and even demand, to be challenged. God’s covenantal relationship with human beings means that there are times when we are encouraged to question and even protest God’s mandates.

This goes back to the time of Abraham, who challenged God’s decision to destroy the city of Sodom. The midrash (stories told by the sages to explain biblical passages) teaches that God rewarded Abraham with direct revelation of prophecy because of his commitment to fight for the rights of the righteous.

Another example is Moses, who is commanded to go to war against Sihon, but attempts to first make peace. God, the midrash tells us, accedes to Moses’ initiative. As my son, Dov Weiss, observed in his doctoral dissertation on man’s challenges to God, “God’s response to Moses is striking as God concedes to Moses’s ethical sensibilities and ratifies this less militant approach into law.”

Given this relationship between humans and God, it is important not to overstep — that is, it is important to confront God with reverence and humility. But it is equally important not to silence our inner ethical voices. Such give and take is not an expression of defiance but of mutual love.

As the midrash says, “Any love that does not include challenging each other is not true love.” While this midrash deals with interpersonal relationships, it can be extended to apply to our relationship with God.

In simple terms this would mean, if God commands us to kill an innocent, we have the responsibility to question, to confront God. This is the dynamic of our covenantal relationship. This is what God wants from us. Indeed, the God I believe in categorically rejects the targeted killing of innocents.

This means that the Jewish doctrine of belief is a hybrid. It is not the ethics of the human being alone, nor is it derived from God alone. It is an interfacing of the two, with each demanding proper behavior from the other.

This is the synthesis of the Written Law, which comes from God, and the Oral Law, centered on human input which — with divine mandate — explicates the written one.

From this synthesis — from the Talmud, the commentaries, the codes of law, the rabbinic response — emerges an unequivocal and absolute conclusion: Murder in the name of God is obscene, a desecration of God’s name.

A story is told about Martin Buber and Franz Rosenzweig, two prominent 20th-century philosophers. After eight years of writing to each other Rosenzweig, who was a bit younger, wrote a poem in which he asked Buber if he could address him using the word du, the German intimate expression of friendship. Buber agreed.

Rosenzweig then said: Thank you. I’ll always say du, but in my heart I will continue to say sie — the more formal German term for the other — reflective of my deep respect for you.

Rosenzweig’s concept is an accurate reflection of our relationship with an ethical God. Questioning with respect. Challenging with reverence. Confronting with humility. And holding each other mutually accountable.

Rabbi Avi Weiss is the founder of Yeshivat Chovevei Torah and Yeshivat Maharat, and senior rabbi at the Hebrew Institute of Riverdale in New York. His new book, Holistic Prayer, will soon be published by Maggid Press.



 
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Its not the belief in God that instigates people to commit horrendous acts of violence against fellow human beings. Its the rigidity and teachings of religions (note the difference between these two) which for some reason raises and fosters intolerance against other religious teachings, which leads to perpetuation of violence. Religious violence -- its a self-sustaining, self-driving, vicious cycle.

Unless religions are done away with, there will always be killing in the name of God(s).
 
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"Challenge God", ..."put God on trial..." ....

These are all perverted ideas. Prophets never challenged God, they had dialogue with him.

These people are playing around with God as if he's their creation. An 'ethical' God, a 'this' God, a that.
 
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"Challenge God", ..."put God on trial..." ....

These are all perverted ideas. Prophets never challenged God, they had dialogue with him. These people are playing around with God as if he's their creation. An 'ethical' God, a 'this' God, a that.

Think carefully. Those who challenge God with an independent ethical touchstone of their own - as Genesis records Abraham did - can't be the ones who "play around with God as if he's their creation." That's what people who invoke God as the sole justification for their actions are apt to do.
Regarding the prophets, according the Torah Abraham challenged God, Moses challenged God, Jonah challenged God - those are the 3 most prominent I can think of.
 
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Think carefully. Those who challenge God with an independent ethical touchstone of their own - as Genesis records Abraham did - can't be the ones who "play around with God as if he's their creation." That's what people who invoke God as the sole justification for their actions are apt to do.
Regarding the prophets, according the Torah Abraham challenged God, Moses challenged God, Jonah challenged God - those are the 3 most prominent I can think of.

Yeah, and you forgot, the one that wrestled with God, literally.

The concept of God takes a whole turn when you're professing we challenge him. You need to answer the questions being applied to this:

-Why challenge God?
-What's the point of challenging God?
-What do you want to get out of it?
-Who's qualified to do this?
-What does this say about the attributes of God?

I can keep on going on and on. I think 'challenging' is too broad of a term for this.

And do you honestly believe the Bible is an accurate historical text? I doubt it.
 
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Killings can't be stopped though you're focus is more on "in the name of God" if they won't kill in God's name they would kill for another reason blame humans not religions. And i am afraid you couldn't see Muslims being killed in maybe you're God's name or someone else's.
 
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man craves for power and he uses everything including god for all the misdeeds he does in that path.they just need reason to kill.they need a reason to make people fear them..violence once tasted can not be easily undone.once they started using weapons they can not be satisfied.even if their demands were met they search for new goals inorder to justify the violence.
 
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Yeah, and you forgot, the one that wrestled with God, literally.
Fill me in.

The concept of God takes a whole turn when you're professing we challenge him.
As opposed to....?

You need to answer the questions being applied to this:
-Why challenge God?
-What's the point of challenging God?
-What do you want to get out of it?
The author's article answers these questions.
-Who's qualified to do this?
Why should anybody need to be "qualified" to challenge God?

-What does this say about the attributes of God?
That's a theological question not needed for the matter at hand, but perhaps one you'll need to deal with as a consequence.
And do you honestly believe the Bible is an accurate historical text? I doubt it.
Issues that have nothing to do with thread topic.

In sum, you don't doubt express doubts that the author's prescription is correct. What you do doubt is the right for a mere human to set himself up as an independent judge in his heart in the first place, yes?
 
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Fill me in.

As opposed to....?

The author's article answers these questions.
Why should anybody need to be "qualified" to challenge God?

That's a theological question not needed for the matter at hand, but perhaps one you'll need to deal with as a consequence.
Issues that have nothing to do with thread topic.

In sum, you don't doubt express doubts that the author's prescription is correct. What you do doubt is the right for a mere human to set himself up as an independent judge in his heart in the first place, yes?

I don't believe the author is correct. He's basing this on modern reform Jews and discussion that occurred after the holocaust in which two rabbi's put God on trial and found him guilty of committing the holocaust. It's something very weird and odd I don't recognize one bit of it.

For your assumption, that may have been something you were thinking and I wasn't.

So you're drifting away from the Abrahamic God and buying into all this consciousness is God concept?
 
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I don't believe the author is correct. He's basing this on modern reform Jews and discussion that occurred after the holocaust in which two rabbi's put God on trial and found him guilty of committing the holocaust. It's something very weird and odd I don't recognize one bit of it.
What are you referring to, exactly? There's no "drifting": Avi Weiss clearly grounds his arguments in the midrash and Torah. The last paragraphs are an illustrative example, not reasoning, and one of the people mentioned, Rosenzweig, died over a decade before the Holocaust. Rabbi Menachem ben Shlomo Ha-Me’iri lived and died nine hundred years ago. Christopher Hitchens was no rabbi and was repelled at the thought of practicing religious Judaism in even the smallest degree.

That said, I don't doubt you're feeling "very weird and odd" here. Perhaps you want to re-read it a bit and take it in slowly?
 
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I did not read opening post, just scanned first few lines. May be later.

But fact of the matter is more ppl were killed in the name of non-God than in the name of God. Whether that non-God was communist or evolution inspired dictators or money\power hungry rulers.


Ignore the 2nd part of this picture (on Atheism)...

http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/11646024/img/Anonymous/Atheism-a-farse.jpg
Atheism-a-farse.jpg



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Many of so-called terror attacks are staged. You have to have interrogative eye to see. Like I read "Kenya" in OP, it was "fake-as-atheism". I just invented this saying :) Like fake water-color-blood on that victim's shirt where water separated from red color because of different diffusion rates. No real conclusive footage, except poorly photoshoped stills and interviews of crisis-actors.


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And if OP is a jew then here's what "The Law" says in the name of God:

Deuteronomy:17:2:hath gone and served other gods stone them with stones, till they die.
Leviticus:24:16:he that blasphemeth shall surely be put to death

John:8:7:(Not part of the law, but NT) cast a stone at her.

Leviticus:20:13:a man(homosexual) surely be put to death

Leviticus:20:15:& Leviticus:20:16:a man\woman lie(for sex) with an animal be put to death

Leviticus:20:18:sex during menses and both of them shall be cut off from among their people


Deut:22:21: the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die:

Deuteronomy:13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, ... neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die;


Numbers:31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones(Kids), and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.18 But all the women-children(an attempt to hide word “female children”) , that have not known a man by lying with him(Virgin Female Children) , keep alive for yourselves.(war crimes)



Islam does not teach killing of innocent anywhere. If someone does that he is following his own mental corruption. Doesn't matter if he chanted the name of God, he has no understanding. Killing in the name of God entered muslim territories since evil-Dajjal entered there. The moment Dajjal leaves, there won't be any killing in the name of God from Muslim side. Right now Dajjal (the beast of 666) is in Syria, and as per predictions this is his last expedition, soon he will vanish and peace will return to earth.


To hindustanees,,, since this talk is beyond ur comprehension, so stay away from wasting ur time replying. Go watch katrina's mid-riff and sing and dance, what u r made for.
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If got time, might reply more specifically to OP later... Bye for now.
 
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Easy. Just believe in yourself only. Since there is no god in your mind, then you would not kill in the name of god.

Buddha once said, "You cannot find buddha* outside of yourself."

*Buddha is not god, and god is not buddha. In Buddha's view, there are ten thousand gods.
 
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In today's world Islam is like what Christianity used to be in 14th century. Executing people who oppose their beliefs/ mixing religion with state/Blasphemy etc.
Islam is relatively new religion an it will get evolve and mature over the period of time. Turkish Muslims are the only religiously mature Muslims today.
 
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