How the Su-30 MKI is changing the IAF’s combat strategy

[Capt.Popeye]

No, the idea was to use the productionline for FGFA later, but the delays of FGFA and the early phase out of Mig 27UPGs, has forced IAF to add 40 more to the HAL productionline.



Yes, the newly ordered and the upgraded MKIs (oldests once that will be upgraded 2015 onwards) should be at the same standard.

My guess is that the final order book for Su-30 MKIs will nudge 300+ eventually.

 

[janon]

My guess is that the final order book for Su-30 MKIs will nudge 300+ eventually.

@sandy_3126 once mentioned that it would be 340.

I'm not sure if it is a good idea though. Might be a better idea to increase the number of Rafales, since they are cheaper to operate and require only one pilot. 272 is quite a big number as it is.

 

[proud_indian]

@sandy_3126 once mentioned that it would be 340.

I'm not sure if it is a good idea though. Might be a better idea to increase the number of Rafales, since they are cheaper to operate and require only one pilot. 272 is quite a big number as it is.

Can you put some light on this?

 

[janon]

Can you put some light on this?

Rafale is a single seat fighter (with a twin seat version for training purposes), while the MKI is a two seater. You can see the two pilots in this photo. (Actually one of them is a dedicated weapon system operator).

 

[IND151]

are super sukhois part of this 272.. as article suggest a dedicated nuclear strike capable 40 birds which can carry nuclear tipped say brahmos, the super sukhois should ideally be seperate from 272.

One more silly but potent question.. whats the real range of Brahmos say any of his blocks.. if a dedicated 3 crafts are sent to take down say infrastructure like dams etc which may be in steep valley block 3 so called with dive capability wud be used. In such sense whats the real range vs block 2 and 1. Request you not to quote MTCR and say 290 Kms. We all know it was nvr really 290 kms to begin with .. may be a batch or at best block 1 may be. Nobody makes a missile with 290 km range and think of deploying it onboard ships, subs and aircrafts even with massive supersonic speed..

Lastly a more serious question. We all know SU 30 MKI is awesome in air to air role.. and A2G rafale is also awesome. so why not SFC thot abt may be 40 super sukhois and 20 rafales in that knid of dedicated role.. is it bcz rafale is nt inducted or contract not signed.. ?

The 272 Sukhois ordered may or may not include Super MKIs.

No, the idea was to use the productionline for FGFA later, but the delays of FGFA and the early phase out of Mig 27UPGs, has forced IAF to add 40 more to the HAL productionline.



Yes, the newly ordered and the upgraded MKIs (oldests once that will be upgraded 2015 onwards) should be at the same standard.

Kindly give link for source.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Can you put some light on this?

Well it's a simple case of cost and resources. It costs the IAF millions of USD to train and support a fighter pilot/WSO throughout their careers in the service not to mention putting a drain on recruitment.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

@sandy_3126 once mentioned that it would be 340.

I'm not sure if it is a good idea though. Might be a better idea to increase the number of Rafales, since they are cheaper to operate and require only one pilot. 272 is quite a big number as it is.

Yes; 350 Su-30 MKIs are the upper limit. But it may end up at abt. 300.
The Capital Cost of the Rafale is substantially more than the Sukhois as they are. So to upscale that Fleet reqmt will be a more studied choice eventually.

 

[janon]

Yes; 350 Su-30 MKIs are the upper limit. But it may end up at abt. 300.
The Capital Cost of the Rafale is substantially more than the Sukhois as they are. So to upscale that Fleet reqmt will be a more studied choice eventually.

Yes, but it is a question of upfront capital cost versus overall cost during lifetime. That is why the IAF this time emphasized the TCO and total lifecycle costs. When we consider the fact that each bird will serve 25-30 years, the running costs become substantial. Of course, this is hoping that the mid-life upgrade of Rafales can be done in-house since we are getting deep ToT, and manufacturing it ourselves. If that costs as much as the mirage upgrade, then I would have to reconsider my opinion.

 

[proud_indian]

Rafale is a single seat fighter (with a twin seat version for training purposes), while the MKI is a two seater. You can see the two pilots in this photo. (Actually one of them is a dedicated weapon system operator).

Well it's a simple case of cost and resources. It costs the IAF millions of USD to train and support a fighter pilot/WSO throughout their careers in the service not to mention putting a drain on recruitment.

All these years I was under the impression that we are gonna have two seater "Rafale".
That's why I asked that.
thank for explanation

 

[sancho]

Rafale is a single seat fighter (with a twin seat version for training purposes)

That's not correct, the twin seat Rafale is a fully fledged combat fighter just like the twin seat Flanker and unlike the twin seat EF. The French Air Force even induct more twin seaters than single seaters.

The Capital Cost of the Rafale is substantially more than the Sukhois as they are. So to upscale that Fleet reqmt will be a more studied choice eventually.

Depending on which version you compare, the figures quoted for the additional order of 42 x upgraded MKIs is far higher too and by the fact that LCA now went into production and offers IAF a cheaper to procure and to operate option, additional MKIs are not very likely. If IAF wants to increase the number of fighters from 2017 onwards (the time when the 42 x upgraded MKIs are aimed to be delivered), it will have LCA MK2, Rafale in production and is only 2-3 years away from FGFA. Not to mention that there also would be the option to order or lease the early Pak Fa's from Russia, which still are aimed on arrival in Russian forces by 2016. So there are plenty of options for IAF and additional MKIs would actually be the worst choice.

 

[proud_indian]

That's not correct, the twin seat Rafale is a fully fledged combat fighter just like the twin seat Flanker and unlike the twin seat EF. The French Air Force even induct more twin seaters than single seaters.

So we are getting single seater or double seater?

 

[airmarshal]

What has Pakistan got to counter IAF threat of Su-30MKI. @Aeronaut @Jazzbot? Who is a good air force analyst on this forum.

 

[jaiind]

what are the differences for indian su 30 and china su 30??

 

[Kompromat]

@airmarshal

A BIG Russian air craft which cant hide from our AN/TPS-77, EriEye, ZDK-3 and cant escape out AIM-120C5 AMRAAMs and our SAM systems.

India needs MKIs to balance with China which has around 400 Flankers and growing.

MKI is a myth busted by the world's best flight school called the Red Flag at Nellis AFB.

Indians can't admit to that, for understandable reasons.

 

[Srinivas]

@airmarshal

A BIG Russian air craft which cant hide from our AN/TPS-77, EriEye, ZDK-3 and cant escape out AIM-120C5 AMRAAMs and our SAM systems.

India needs MKIs to balance with China which has around 400 Flankers and growing.

MKI is a myth busted by the world's best flight school called the Red Flag at Nellis AFB.

Indians can't admit to that, for understandable reasons.

Those exercises are conducted with down graded MKI's with out proper avionics. The Americans who are talking about the drag which stalls the MKI during maneuvers also know that MKI dog fight doctrines cover these aspects well.

I have seen the cobra maneuver at high speed in a video (still searching for that ..... ) It is definately advantage to have thrust vectoring which can also dodge missiles.