How secure is Indian nuclear program?

[TomCat111]

I doubt if anybody else understood what the heck you were getting at.

Did you take a vote and forgot to share with us?

US supposedly ignores Indian proliferation to those same regimes.

What’s so confusing about it? Israel has nukes and had proliferated too, but it still receives the best West has to offer. Don’t confuse Western hypocrisy with Indian so-called responsible behavior.

Did you spot the disconnect?

Yes... I can, you are disconnected.

I'm somehow not surprised you're taking this tack.

I am also not surprised at your pathetic attempts to shift the blame.

I've read the Appendix B and that is not proof.

Your denials are immaterial and will not change the reality.

it means that SK has an undercover nuclear weapons program. Does it?

Yes, it did and may still be doing. You may want to update your knowledge every now and then. It so happened, in summer of 2004, it was reveled between July and December 1981 SK extracted 0.3 grams of plutonium, and it was also revealed SK had conducted laser isotope separation experiments to enrich about 0.2 grams of uranium.

The Appendix contains claims that so and so came to India and so and so worked with India. It also shows reports of exports of dual use material by private Indian companies.

In message 70 you said, “He's given no supporting arguments. He just expects his readers to believe it because the great Mr. Gill has said it.” To this nonsense, I responded in message 77, “which part of ‘see Appendix - B’ do you find hard to read or comprehend? Could it be any simpler? Mr. Gill doesn’t expect his readers to believe it because the great Mr. Gill has said it, but he certainly makes a basic assumption that the readers could, at minimum, read English.” If such deceptive comments of yours weren’t enough, you had to again add to your ignorance in a usual pathetic attempt to discredit the sources/in this case the appendix.

1. In case you are oblivious of all the forms of proliferation, it includes transfer of knowledge and even dual-use materials too. And NO, not even private companies are exempted to proliferate. Since India is guilty of knowledge transfer, technology transfer, and material transfer through state and private entities; therefore, India is guilty of nuclear proliferation.
2. It is not by mistake that the US has blacklisted Indian nuclear scientists and sanctioned Indian firms for selling prohibited items to Iran.

 In 2004, the US State Department blacklisted two Indian scientists. The Indian nuclear scientists were charged with nuclear proliferation to Iran. The US State Department spokesman Richard Boucher explained, "The cases reflected poor Indian commitment to non-proliferation."

In yet another instance, the US sanctioned two Indian firms for selling prohibited items to Iran.

(Nukes for India)

The word nuclear was missing.

Here we go... yet in another cheap attempt to misquote you have presented half quote. The word ‘nuclear’ was missed only by you. Here is another source: “Indian Foreign Minister Yashwant Sinha said... ‘We have nuclear energy plants in our country. There are other civilian uses of nuclear energy ... most certainly between Iran and India there would be collaboration, there is collaboration’”. (India helping Iran with nuclear energy: FM)

Just collaboration doesn't mean anything.

Unless, one is brain dead, in context of nuclear proliferation, ‘collaboration’ means everything.

 

[TomCat111]

That doesn't have anything to do with nuclear proliferation and neither does it imply that terrorists (trained in Pakistan incidently) can steal nuclear weaponry or technology.

Don’t tell me that. Tell it to your Home Minister Shivraj Patil who is going hysteric over the threat. Tell him to shut up, because you said the terrorists can neither steal nuclear weaponry or technology.

Tell me what exactly would a terrorist be able to get from a nuclear power plant guarded by the best India can come up with?

1. Read the article, it goes over exactly what terrorists or insurgents can steal.
2. you still don’t get it, do you? The problem is the best India can come up with is antiquated and primitive at best.:wall:

 

[TomCat111]

Jeez Tomcat ...
Its YOU who is obsessed with discrediting and attacking India .

Jeez... ever read the topic of this thread? In case you can’t read or don’t want to read, its about India and NOT about the author or Pakistan.

As they say, ‘wake up and get with the program’... Jeez.

 

[TomCat111]

The thread asks how secure the Indian nuclear program is and well ... I'm defending it.

If by defending you mean attacking and discrediting the author, forum members and Pakistan then you guys are doing a darn good job.

 

[TomCat111]

inferiority complex at its best...

And you couldn't make it anymore obvious even if you tried. Living 1400 odd years under the rule of Muslims and then Brits would do it to anyone.

Just cuz our minster said so, that means our nuke plants are 'leaky'!!

I guess that makes your minters/government officials morons or liars. I always had a feeling, these pansies are habitual liars, who would lie through their teeth to suit their agendas.

 

[MIG_ACE]

And when did I say it was about Pakistan?? You quoted msg 88 and the word Pakistan is absent in my post.

BTW the US senate voted 85-12 in favor of the deal which wudnt have happened if they felt Indian nuclear program was not secure. And well....I'll believe them since What they think matters in this world rather than what Adnan gill does.

 

[Contrarian]

I myself am rather inclined to think that the Indian nukes are in better safety than Pakistani nukes. This fact has been raised by many ineternationally RESPECTED organisations and authors, that they worry about Pakistani Nukes falling in the hands of religious extremists or terrorists.

Surprsingly in all of these articles, it is mentioened only Pakistan and not India who is in such a threat.

He is misquoting many other statemnts. I said:
"Just saying that Nuclear insallations are at a threat from terrorists does not amount to anything. Any nuclear plant in the world is under threat from terrorists. Just cuz our minster said so, that means our nuke plants are 'leaky'!!"

just stating the last line changes teh context in which it was said.
What part of the above para dont u get?
every NPP in the world is under threat. Just cuz our minister stated the above concerns, that have been stated by officials from most responsible nuclear countries does not mean, that the threat is gonna materialise. Its prevention at its best. Preparing for the worst. Something Pakistan is yet to understand or do. inspite of world concerns over the safety of Pakistani NPP, the govt or the dictator there, is yet to say or do anything about it. Inspite of reports that the NATO or US special forces are preparing or training to take over Pak NPP in an emergency, the dictator there is yet to say or do anything. But OMG, just cuz a weird no body has posted that Indian Nukes are under threat, and the govt here takes responsible actions by informing people and trying to take corrective steps, the Indian NPP are full of faults!!

 

[MIG_ACE]

Forget it malay.He is not going to listen. Bashing and defaming India seems to be his hobby.Let him say whatever he wants.

 

[vnomad]

Don’t tell me that. Tell it to your Home Minister Shivraj Patil who is going hysteric over the threat. Tell him to shut up, because you said the terrorists can neither steal nuclear weaponry or technology.

Hysteric? He's calm and composed man. I didn't see him hyper-ventilating. Your imagination's running wild.
A terrorist attack does not have to be with the sole aim of stealing nuclear tech.

As for Gill's claims (which incidently don't constitute proof) in the appendix, since they can't be verified I'll abstain from commenting on them. I'll just assume that the Americans aren't fools who'll overlook India giving nuke tech to US rivals.

 

[TomCat111]

And when did I say it was about Pakistan?? You quoted msg 88 and the word Pakistan is absent in my post.

Sweetie pie, I know ability to follow the thread isn’t forte of you guys, but it would save everyone's time if you could develop ability to follow the thread beyond the last message. I don’t think I am expecting anything more from you that I wouldn’t expect from a 6-7 years old.:wall:

BTW the US senate voted 85-12 in favor of the deal which wudnt have happened if they felt Indian nuclear program was not secure.

1. Don’t tell me, tell it to the US State Department who blacklisted Indian nuclear scientists and sanctioned Indian firms for selling prohibited items to Iran.
2. It doesn’t help much when you don’t read and follow the thread. Repetition of similar comments by different guys isn’t going to make it anymore effective. Had you had presence of mind, you might have noticed half way down in message 91 (beside many other), this naive arguement had been addressed. But for your benefit let me repeat one more time:
“In 2004, the US State Department blacklisted two Indian scientists. The Indian nuclear scientists were charged with nuclear proliferation to Iran. The US State Department spokesman Richard Boucher explained, ‘The cases reflected poor Indian commitment to non-proliferation’... In yet another instance, the US sanctioned two Indian firms for selling prohibited items to Iran.” (Nukes for India)

And well....I'll believe them since What they think matters in this world rather than what Adnan gill does.

Then it’s established that India indeed has leaky nuclear program, because that’s what the US State Department says. :banana2:

 

[TomCat111]

Honey, try to concentrate. The topic is about the threats to global security and safety posed by the leaky Indian nuclear program and NOT by Pakistan or any other nation. Pointing fingers at others or attacking the author isn’t going to make leaky Indian nuclear program anymore secure.

I myself am rather inclined to think that the Indian nukes are in better safety than Pakistani nukes.

Try to stick to the topic. Start a new thread if the itch to attack Pakistan is becoming unbearable.

Surprsingly in all of these articles, it is mentioened only Pakistan and not India who is in such a threat.

Show me a single reputable source that claims Pakistani NPPs to be insecure.

He is misquoting many other statemnts. I said:
"Just saying that Nuclear insallations are at a threat from terrorists does not amount to anything. Any nuclear plant in the world is under threat from terrorists. Just cuz our minster said so, that means our nuke plants are 'leaky'!!"
just stating the last line changes teh context in which it was said.

How?

What part of the above para dont u get?

What part of following response in message 95 did you find challenging to comprehend? “I guess that makes your minters/government officials morons or liars. I always had a feeling, these pansies are habitual liars, who would lie through their teeth to suit their agendas.”

every NPP in the world is under threat. Just cuz our minister stated the above concerns, that have been stated by officials from most responsible nuclear countries does not mean, that the threat is gonna materialise.

You like going in circles, like a dog chasing its tail. Right?

Go back and read your message 79 again and then read my response in message 81 to your similar ignorant rant , where I said, “There are perceived terrorist threats to nuclear assets all over the globe, but how many highest government officials do you know of who publicly declare their atomic power plants to be "highly vulnerable" to be terrorist attacks? Could the answer be, beside Indian, NONE?”

If that wasn’t enough, read message 83 where I repeated it with colors and underlineS for Bull’s benefit.

But OMG, just cuz a weird no body has posted that Indian Nukes are under threat, and the govt here takes responsible actions by informing people and trying to take corrective steps, the Indian NPP are full of faults!!

I called the Indian Home Minister Shivraj Patil a pansy, but if you insist he is a ‘no body’ then I guess we call him a ‘no body pansy’.

 

[TomCat111]

Hysteric? He's calm and composed man. I didn't see him hyper-ventilating. Your imagination's running wild.

Pardon me, I guess the obvious was lost on you. In case you can’t figure it out, the joke was on you guys who are running from pillar to post to change the meanings of your minister’s stunning admissions that Indian nuclear program is “highly vulnerable”.

A terrorist attack does not have to be with the sole aim of stealing nuclear tech.

Does this statement even make any sense?

In case you never understood, thieves steal, and terrorists terrorize.

As for Gill's claims (which incidently don't constitute proof) in the appendix, since they can't be verified I'll abstain from commenting on them.

Please don’t use your handicap of your inability to read and understand as unverifiability of proof. I already requested you many times and also in message 77, but let me remind you guys again, read the articles Seeds of Indian Proliferation and Nukes for India again for verifiable references.

I'll just assume that the Americans aren't fools who'll overlook India giving nuke tech to US rivals.

How many times do I have to say it before you can get it through your heads, that don’t confuse Western hypocrisy as Indian innocence. :wall:

 

[Contrarian]

well...now it is western hyprocricy isnt it...not when they turn a blind eye and sell military equipment to dictators...

and here are the 'concerns' over Pak nukes and plants
and these are just at teh drop of the hat from simple searches, i have better things to do than argue with you.

http://www.acronym.org.uk/dd/dd61/61new03.htm

http://www.isis-online.org/publications/terrorism/stanleypaper.html


and not to foget the reports that were there in newspapers earlier, about US and NATO troops training in the eventuality to take control of the Pakistani Nukes and power plants.

As regards to terrorists taking control over Indian plants, let just say, PAKISTANI trained terrorists can never take control of our nuke installations. They are heavily guarded by our best. We have a responsible govt chosen by us to protect us. The NSG also gets deployed to guard nuke reactors at a moments notice. Anyways like i said before, that our minister stated concerns that we must be prepared for this eventuality, prepare accordingly for such a threat as terrorists (read pak trained and abetted terroristss) might plan to strike. This is a fear what may happen. Just cuz terrorists want to strike our NPP does not mean that our plants are leaky or unsafe. The minster just urged every1 to know that the threat is present and we should be prepared for it. The mere fact of a threat being present does not mean or in any way relate to the active security of the complex.

Next, it does not matter if you take a savage pleasure at anything that happens or might happen in India. This is your inferiority complex, nothing else. get your own house in order, secure your own state, start voting, its just been a while since pakistan escaped being a 'failed state' so quit commenting on others.

 

[Bull]

What’s so confusing about it? Israel has nukes and had proliferated too, but it still receives the best West has to offer. Don’t confuse Western hypocrisy with Indian so-called responsible behavior. .

What he meant was that US is really worried about N proliferation and still turns a blind eye/ignore Indian cases of misconduct.
Now what does that say?

 

[Bull]

Don’t tell me that. Tell it to your Home Minister Shivraj Patil who is going hysteric over the threat. Tell him to shut up, because you said the terrorists can neither steal nuclear weaponry or technology.:

Patil is responsible for making sure things are in place and his statement was to alert the nation on the threats its face,and vnomad's comments was made after he saw the responsible people have been alerted and hence any such acts would be thwarted.

2. you still don’t get it, do you? The problem is the best India can come up with is antiquated and primitive at best.:wall:

Like for e.g.?