How Russian access to Pakistan's Gwadar port and CPEC will weigh against the Russo-Indian Relations

[The SC]

How Russian access to Gwadar, or what they call warm waters will weigh against the Russo-Indian Relations?
For example, how much political and financial pressure can India put on Russia to counter its arms sales to Pakistan, without jeopardizing the latter's vital longings to get access to the warm waters of the Arabian Sea?
Weighing both ends, Russia will try to find some equilibrium in its relations with India and Pakistan..Will the billions of Russian arms sales to India and their "Strategic" partnership outweigh the potential of more billions to be made through trade from Gwadar and CPEC?
Pakistan holds this politico-economic vital and important card to play with Russia and against Indian interventions in arms sales among other benefits..

 

[war&peace]

How Russian access to Gwadar, or what they call warm waters will weigh against the Russo-Indian Relations?
For example, how much political and financial pressure can India put on Russia to counter its arms sales to Pakistan, without jeopardizing the latter's vital longings to get access to the warm waters of the Arabian Sea?
Weighing both ends, Russia will try to find some equilibrium in its relations with India and Pakistan..Will the billions of Russian arms sales to India and their "Strategic" partnership outweigh the potential of more billions to be made through trade from Gwadar and CPEC?
Pakistan holds this politico-economic vital and important card to play with Russia and against Indian interventions in arms sales among other benefits..

Defence deals and trade deals are entirely two different categories or businesses. Four things to consider

1. Big defence deals are few and far between
2. In future there will be even lesser number of larger deals as india is striving for make in india
3. india is replacing Russia with USA and west and slowly the relations will die
4. Once the deal has been signed and paid, the seller (Russia) has the buyer (india) by the balls while reverse is not true

Now the trade deals have different dynamics...if everything thing remains constant or positive, the trade tends to increase or remain steady over time, thus

1. it will provide a steady income unlike the defence deals that are intermittent in nature
2. it will provide Russia a greater access to other markets and it won't dependent on a single country and thus able to expand not only its trade but political influence and relations with other countries too
3. the country that controls the trade ways (Pakistan) will have more leverage or at least a very comfortable situation in the relations
4. trade relations are longer term and not so easily disturbed or disrupted and grow over time

Just a few of the points I could think of.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Is this thread for teenagers to jack off? Are you guy's serious? Let's look at some facts.

latter's vital longings to get access to the warm waters

Do you know how far Russia is from Gwadar? Do you know the Russian hinterland of Gwadar is sparsely populated and poorly connected on the north-south axis. All rail/road networks roll east-west. And do you know our friend - the one we love dearly, Afghanistan is in the way of the north-south axis.

By the way Russia already has warm water on the Black Sea. Sochi below

 

[war&peace]

By the way Russia already has warm water on the Black Sea. Sochi below

Black sea is landlocked i.e. it is a lake though given a title of sea due to its sheer size.
Hinterlands are normally developed after there is a port so when there is an economic activity, the hinterland gets investment...same goes for Gawader....a sparely populated area with almost no high or even low tech industry... just a barren area.. Similar Karachi was a small town before British convert it into a sea port and within decades it became a major city in subcontinent.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Black sea is landlocked

No. It is not. Bosphorus Straits. More than 26,663 vessels have passed through Istanbul's Bosphorus Strait so far this year, marking a remarkable increase in one year. Bulgaria, Romania, Moldavia, Ukraine, Russia, Georgia all rely on the Black Sea/Bosphorus for trade.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/re...h-bosphorus-in-2014.aspx?pageID=238&nid=71753

Below: Russian Navy's large landing ship Korolev sails in the Bosphorus, on its way to the Meditearnean and Syria.

The entire Russian Black Sea Fleat is based in this theatre.

 

[shahbaz baig]

Russia should keep Dealing with India. but there should be a backdoor In-camera Negotiation b/w Pak & Russia.
i dont think this is a Topic which should be discussed here until we dont have any News Regarding the Joining of Russia with CPEC Officially. Both Country think tank knows better then us

 

[Hamdan882]

Russia will never want to leave india... its a market of more than a billion people...and it is rising as major regional military and economic power... who stupid will want to leave such a place.... be realistic

 

[The SC]

Is this thread for teenagers to jack off? Are you guy's serious? Let's look at some facts.

Do you know how far Russia is from Gwadar? Do you know the Russian hinterland of Gwadar is sparsely populated and poorly connected on the north-south axis. All rail/road networks roll east-west. And do you know our friend - the one we love dearly, Afghanistan is in the way of the north-south axis.

By the way Russia already has warm water on the Black Sea. Sochi below

The Black sea is a lake it is not a sea not an open sea anyway.. still too much to the north.. I think you are being satirical with that picture!

Russia can use the Iranian route and the Caspian sea (the other big lake) from Gwadar

And there are many routes for CPEC

Russia will never want to leave india... its a market of more than a billion people...and it is rising as major regional military and economic power... who stupid will want to leave such a place.... be realistic

No one said that Russia should leave India.. we are talking about influence and how much the Indian one will weigh in time against the Pakistani one, it is a strategic matter we are talking about, and Russia will deal with both sides equally, meaning India will lose leverage and Pakistan will gain leverage..

No. It is not. Bosphorus Straits. More than 26,663 vessels have passed through Istanbul's Bosphorus Strait so far this year, marking a remarkable increase in one year. Bulgaria, Romania, Moldavia, Ukraine, Russia, Georgia all rely on the Black Sea/Bosphorus for trade.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/re...h-bosphorus-in-2014.aspx?pageID=238&nid=71753

Below: Russian Navy's large landing ship Korolev sails in the Bosphorus, on its way to the Meditearnean and Syria.

The entire Russian Black Sea Fleat is based in this theatre.

As a maritime waterway, the Bosphorus connects various seas along the Eastern Mediterranean, the Balkans, the Near East, and Western Eurasia, and specifically connects the Black Sea to the Sea of Marmara. The Marmara further connects to the Aegean and Mediterranean Seas via the Dardanelles. Thus, the Bosphorus allows maritime connections from the Black Sea all the way to the Mediterranean Sea and the Atlantic Ocean via Gibraltar, and the Indian Ocean through the Suez Canal, making it a crucial international waterway, in particular for the passage of goods coming in from Russia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosphorus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosphorus
But when one talks about access to warm waters this is what it means: you were a bit out of it with the black sea rhetoric..

 

[Indus Pakistan]

@The SC No idea how many times it's going take you to fathom this. Russia keeps a entire battle naval force called the black Sea Fleat. It can sail through the Bosphorous into the Meditearnean and onto any ocean in the world. And this 'lake' thing you mention could even apply to Mediteranean. Fact is Black Sea and Meditearnean have access to the oceans. Over 22 thousand ships sailed from Black Sea to Meditearnean.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/re...h-bosphorus-in-2014.aspx?pageID=238&nid=71753

And for gawds sakes when they say 'warm waters; in a strategic context they mean sea/oceans that do not freeze up in the winter. Most of Russia's northern arc - Baltic, Bering Straits freeze up in the winter. The Black Sea ports are 'warm water' and do not freeze up.

So just to recap - in the context of shipping warm waters does not mean the tropical warm water for swimming or diving for leisure. It meas sea remaing navigable even in winter or free from ice. Going by your map most of Europe, large part of North America, most of China all of Koreas and Japan are busted. On other hand Africa is dancing in warm water "

This is frozen ice below - means no shipping.

 

[MarcsPakistan]

Russia will never want to leave india... its a market of more than a billion people...and it is rising as major regional military and economic power... who stupid will want to leave such a place.... be realistic

Who said they will leave india .Russia is just playing cards and In my opinion Pakistan has greater importance than india as trade and defence deals are two different things

 

[The SC]

@The SC No idea how many times it's going take you to fathom this. Russia keeps a entire battle naval force called the black Sea Fleat. It can sail through the Bosphorous into the Meditearnean and onto any ocean in the world. And this 'lake' thing you mention could even apply to Mediteranean. Fact is Black Sea and Meditearnean have access to the oceans. Over 22 thousand ships sailed from Black Sea to Meditearnean.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/re...h-bosphorus-in-2014.aspx?pageID=238&nid=71753

And for gawds sakes when they say 'warm waters; in a strategic context they mean sea/oceans that do not freeze up in the winter. Most of Russia's northern arc - Baltic, Bering Straits freeze up in the winter. The Black Sea ports are 'warm water' and do not freeze up.

So just to recap - in the context of shipping warm waters does not mean the tropical warm water for swimming or diving for leisure. It meas sea remaing navigable even in winter or free from ice. Going by your map most of Europe, large part of North America, most of China all of Koreas and Japan are busted. On other hand Africa is dancing in warm water "

This is frozen ice below - means no shipping.

Buddy, I have agreed with on the Bosphorus strait, but yes most of Europe, large part of North America, most of China all of Koreas and Japan are busted in the way they have iced winters, but not as the north pole you are pointing at, but it is irrelevant in our discussion.
If you take a good look at the map you'll clearly see that the warm waters area contains all the continents and are easier to navigate through, while the Northern seas are difficult for navigation, it is a well known fact, So you can trade faster through warm waters than turbulent waters..

Black sea in winter

Istambul through which the strait passes in winter

The Bosphorus strait in winter

Hope you can understand the idea of year long warm waters now..

Gwadar in winter

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Ah Russia Ah!! How many wars you have fought with the Osmanli to get into that "warm waters"??? And, what grand diplomacies and devastating losses in men and materials!!!!

 

[The SC]

Ah Russia Ah!! How many wars you have fought with the Osmanli to get into that "warm waters"??? And, what grand diplomacies and devastating losses in men and materials!!!!

Add the the USSR invasion of Afghanistan, it appeared later on that the main objective was Pakistan and mostly its warm waters..

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Add the the USSR invasion of Afghanistan, it appeared later on that the main objective was Pakistan and mostly its warm waters..

And, now Russia is getting all the "warm waters" with a "welcome note". I have to admit Putin is a master strategist!! He's shaking all the major capitals in the world...

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Russia does NOT need either Gwadar or Any Warm waters for Trade

Russia has DIRECT Land and Sea connectivity with
ALL its Major Trading Partners
namely Europe ; China ; Central Asia ; Iran ; Turkey

And Russia has BOUGHT India's VADINAR port which is very close to Gwadar Port

http://indianexpress.com/article/bu...y-essar-oil-vadinar-port-for-12-9-bn-3085155/

Rosneft to buy Essar Oil, Vadinar Port for $12.9 bn