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How Russian access to Pakistan's Gwadar port and CPEC will weigh against the Russo-Indian Relations

no i didn't see your version maps.. if you can enlighten us.. feel free

i think @Kaptaan already explained very well.. all you need to look at his posts and maps..


on one side Indians say that the world feel that Pakistan is the problem and is isolated., but in maps it it shows overwhelmingly US. how so. so it is India spin to give fake news about Pakistan and facts are totally opposite.
 
on one side Indians say that the world feel that Pakistan is the problem and is isolated., but in maps it it shows overwhelmingly US. how so. so it is India spin to give fake news about Pakistan and facts are totally opposite.

what are you trying to say.. what is your weed.
 
If Russia weighs the pros and cons of the access to warm water route for it southern states who happen to be Muslims all around will fit good with Russia.

so your disinformation does not stand a chance after knowing the facts.
It is a question, it is not an article to call it disinformation..did you understand the question? Anyway you answer is not clear, maybe you should clarify it and learn when and how to use words..

Now apparently even Turkey is busted with "Istanbul" and "frozen". Despite 22,000 ships sailing through.. Leave alone Germany, Canada etc. I surrender ...

o-WHITE-FLAG-SURRENDER-facebook.jpg



Give me on primary source that confirms this besides Gen. Zia's propaganda?
"Poor winter weather conditions frequently force closures of the Bosphorus, which bisects Istanbul and is the only outlet to the world's oceans from the Black Sea."
http://www.exactearth.com/media-cen...-strait-closed-to-tankers-during-winter-storm

PROBLEMS OF SEAGOING NAVIGATION IN BOSPHORUS STRAIT
http://aerapa.conference.ubbcluj.ro/Engleza/2010/pdf/Stefan_Romanescu.pdf


Obviously you do not read posts in the thread, otherwise you would have had you answer: from post # 19

Interestingly, Russia’s bid to join the CPEC comes as a yet another indication that Moscow, which has been India’s key weapons supplier for decades, is abandoning India for Pakistan. It seems that Russia has more chances than any other country to join the CPEC, as theories about a possible China-Russia-Pakistan superpower triangle keep piling up. The CPEC may be that formal launchpad to form an alliance between Beijing, Moscow and Islamabad.

CPEC is foundation for China-Russia-Pakistan superpower triangle
But what’s all the fuss about? Is the CPEC really becoming the new BRICS? It could be so.

Just days ago, Russia and Pakistan reportedly held backdoor meetings which led Moscow to formally request access to Gwadar Port and ask China and Pakistan to be part of the lucrative multi-billion-dollar project. According to sources cited by Pakistan’s Daily Times, the chief of Russia’s intelligence agency, Federal Security Services, made a secret visit to Pakistan.
...
While Pakistan and China have yet to look into Russia’s request to join the CPEC, Vladimir Putin’s country is not the only nation that wants to join the lucrative project. The United Kingdom, Turkey and France have also been pretty assertive and vocal about their intentions to join the Pak-Chinese Corridor. Officials from other European countries are also reportedly in negotiations with Pakistani and Chinese officials to start projects regarding the CPEC.

But the most promising addition to the China-Pakistan project is probably the United Kingdom, which is currently in the long process of leaving the European Union. After Britons voted in favor of Brexit this past summer, the U.K. sees the need to bring its investments into non-EU projects, and the CPEC could become this very platform for investments.

http://www.valuewalk.com/2016/11/uk-france-russia-join-pakistan-china-cpec/

thanks, this was the type of joke to read with the post breakfast coffee on a beautiful winter day.
Who cares about geography, history, economics and common sense.
For geography, history, economics and common sense see post # 19, you might understand some realities perceived as a joke by your own still sleepy mind
 
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For geography, history, economics and common sense see post # 19, you might understand some realities perceived as a joke by your own still sleepy mind

because you asked I went and looked - nothing there. But still, I wish you all good luck. Becoming expert toll collectors (civilians) and personal guards (military) is still better than being jihadi nuts, so onwards and upwards. ok?
 
because you asked I went and looked - nothing there. But still, I wish you all good luck. Becoming expert toll collectors (civilians) and personal guards (military) is still better than being jihadi nuts, so onwards and upwards. ok?
OK, what? your post doesn't make any sense.. out of context and just shows your rant for the sake of it..
 
Russia can only join CPEC when there will be Proper Railway Network and Oil pipe line by 2025.
but Russia should invest in CPEC from backdoor for it`s own Survival in Crucial Days. i can see that USA and India will no longer be in favor of Russia in near future decade. but still all the Central Asian Countries and China will be surely benefited by CPEC if not Russia.
Russia is losing a chance day by day to join CPEC.

i am also wondering why india is not joining CPEC.. infect CPEC can give the status to India as a Shelter country of the Region
 
Just as a reminder here - we are not interested in cold ice, warm tea, tropical juice, snowy flakes. Neither are we doing a study in meteorology. The issue, the real issue here is amount of shipping passing through. That is the bottom line.


"Poor winter weather conditions frequently force closures of the Bosphorus, which bisects Istanbul and is the only outlet to the world's oceans from the Black Sea."
Bad weather was it? Too bad. That must have severely restricted traffic.

"More than 26,663 vessels have passed through Istanbul’s Bosphorus Strait so far in 2014, with a remarkable increase of 200 vessels in the first seven months of the year compared to the same period in 2013"

Link > http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/re...h-bosphorus-in-2014.aspx?pageID=238&nid=71753


By way of comparison let's look at the sunny, warm waters of Pakistan's largest and only major port.

"Karachi port is facilitating around 1600 ships annually while there is enough capacity to handle more cargo as the current occupancy is around 45% only."

Link > http://kpt.gov.pk/pages/default.aspx?id=39


So let me juxtapose these two facts between your 'frozen Bosphorus' with it's terrible weather and all manner of restrictions compared to the 'warm waters' of the inviting Karachi port by looking at the through shipping traffic.

Bosphorus, Istanbul ~ 26,663
Arabian Sea, Karachi ~ 1,600

With even all the 'ice' there is almost 15 times more ships sailing through Istanbul then Karachi. Looks like the snow and frequent closures has really made impact on traffic. Right?
 
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Just as a reminder here - we are not interested in cold ice, warm tea, tropical juice, snowy flakes. Neite ar we doinga study in meteorology. The issue, the real here is amount of shipping passing through. That is the bottom line.


Bad weather was it? Too bad. That must have severely restricted traffic.

"More than 26,663 vessels have passed through Istanbul’s Bosphorus Strait so far in 2014, with a remarkable increase of 200 vessels in the first seven months of the year compared to the same period in 2013"

Link > http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/re...h-bosphorus-in-2014.aspx?pageID=238&nid=71753


By way of comparison let's look at the sunny, warm waters of Pakistan's largest and only major port.

"Karachi port is facilitating around 1600 ships annually while there is enough capacity to handle more cargo as the current occupancy is around 45% only."

Link > http://kpt.gov.pk/pages/default.aspx?id=39


So let me juxtapose these two facts between your 'frozen Bosphorus' with it's terrible weather and all manner of restrictions compared to the 'warm waters' of the inviting Karachi port by looking at the through shipping traffic.

Bosphorus, Istanbul ~ 26,663
Arabian Sea, Karachi ~ 1,600

With even all the 'ice' there is almost 15 times more ships sailing through Istanbul then Karachi. Looks like the snow and frequent closures has really made impact on traffic. Right?

A better comparison will be with the Suez canal..
Here is a monthly report ( not a yearly one), it is staggering..
https://www.suezcanal.gov.eg/TRstat.aspx?reportId=1

But all of this is not the point of the thread, the main point, and I hope you have grasped it, is the investments and the commitments that Russia wants to make to CPEC, Gwadar is a secondary point.. it is all about the gigantic new Silk Road project that has attracted major European, Asian, African and middle East nations utmost interest in investing in it..and Pakistan is a major player in the mega project, which adds to its geopolitical and economic weight..
 
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A better comparison will be with the Suez canal
No it is not. Bosphorus handles only Black Sea traffic primarily for Russia, Bulgaria, Romania. Suez handles all of Europe, half of Africa and all of Asian traffic.

The amount of traffic sailing through Bosphorus is huge. Certainly way above anything Karachi handles. Incidentally the 26,663 ships is only for 9 months and by end of a full year the figure could be as high as 30,000. What this shows that inclemental conditions notwithstanding Istanbul sees far, far greater volume of traffic then Karachi does. Bad weather does not prevent trade. Most of the worlds largest economies are in the cold temperate zone. Some of the biggest ports like Rotterdam or Hamburg or St. Petersburg are in cold zone. Snow is very common yet Rotterdam alone handles more shipping volume than many countries. One of the busiest airports on earth is Heathrow London which often recieves snow and bad weather. These developed economies have contingencies in place and bad weather did not stop them becoming great powers.

Only the ice cap in North Pole restricts traffic - although even there Russian Navy operates the Northern Fleet, the largest arm of the Russian Navy. Ice breakers break pathways through the solid ice. However this does restrict commercial shipping. However Black Sea or even the Baltic Sea remains operational and handle most of the Russian trade.

And if you look at the original map I posted you will see even if redunancy was sought by Russia Makchakala in Russian Dagestan (marked with red star 2 on mao below) provides ideal alternative to Iran and the Arabian Sea. That is shorter, more secure and nearer the major Russian population centres then Gwadar is. I am big fan of CPEC but can we stay realistic please. Yes, Russia being onboard is a good thing but we must keep things in perspective.


2rnAVOT.jpg
 
Interestingly, Russia’s bid to join the CPEC comes as a yet another indication that Moscow, which has been India’s key weapons supplier for decades, is abandoning India for Pakistan. It seems that Russia has more chances than any other country to join the CPEC, as theories about a possible China-Russia-Pakistan superpower triangle keep piling up. The CPEC may be that formal launchpad to form an alliance between Beijing, Moscow and Islamabad.

CPEC is foundation for China-Russia-Pakistan superpower triangle
But what’s all the fuss about? Is the CPEC really becoming the new BRICS? It could be so.

Just days ago, Russia and Pakistan reportedly held backdoor meetings which led Moscow to formally request access to Gwadar Port and ask China and Pakistan to be part of the lucrative multi-billion-dollar project. According to sources cited by Pakistan’s Daily Times, the chief of Russia’s intelligence agency, Federal Security Services, made a secret visit to Pakistan.
...
While Pakistan and China have yet to look into Russia’s request to join the CPEC, Vladimir Putin’s country is not the only nation that wants to join the lucrative project. The United Kingdom, Turkey and France have also been pretty assertive and vocal about their intentions to join the Pak-Chinese Corridor. Officials from other European countries are also reportedly in negotiations with Pakistani and Chinese officials to start projects regarding the CPEC.

But the most promising addition to the China-Pakistan project is probably the United Kingdom, which is currently in the long process of leaving the European Union. After Britons voted in favor of Brexit this past summer, the U.K. sees the need to bring its investments into non-EU projects, and the CPEC could become this very platform for investments.

http://www.valuewalk.com/2016/11/uk-france-russia-join-pakistan-china-cpec/
I would advise you not to quote the BS article again and again. The said author is nothing but a content writer. Check her articles, writes more about Pakistan than Russia itself http://www.valuewalk.com/author/polina-tikhonova/
If you bring the same argument that she may be a specialist in "south asian affairs" like one of your compatriot once did, just see her past works https://www.upwork.com/o/profiles/users/_~01b6137674b13f081a/

Having said that, can you give any link of this so called partnership from any other reputed main stream media outlet apart from those .pk websites? Any Russian sources? Why do you people want to believe in propaganda so easily?

The so called secret meeting of the Russian Spy chief was denied officially.
http://www.dawn.com/news/1299540
Russia may join CPEC but the dividends which you expect cannot be more it can get from India.
 
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No it is not. Bosphorus handles only Black Sea traffic primarily for Russia, Bulgaria, Romania. Suez handles all of Europe, half of Africa and all of Asian traffic.

The amount of traffic sailing through Bosphorus is huge. Certainly way above anything Karachi handles. Incidentally the 26,663 ships is only for 9 months and by end of a full year the figure could be as high as 30,000. What this shows that inclemental conditions notwithstanding Istanbul sees far, far greater volume of traffic then Karachi does. Bad weather does not prevent trade. Most of the worlds largest economies are in the cold temperate zone. Some of the biggest ports like Rotterdam or Hamburg or St. Petersburg are in cold zone. Snow is very common yet Rotterdam alone handles more shipping volume than many countries. One of the busiest airports on earth is Heathrow London which often recieves snow and bad weather. These developed economies have contingencies in place and bad weather did not stop them becoming great powers.

Only the ice cap in North Pole restricts traffic - although even there Russian Navy operates the Northern Fleet, the largest arm of the Russian Navy. Ice breakers break pathways through the solid ice. However this does restrict commercial shipping. However Black Sea or even the Baltic Sea remains operational and handle most of the Russian trade.

And if you look at the original map I posted you will see even if redunancy was sought by Russia Makchakala in Russian Dagestan (marked with red star 2 on mao below) provides ideal alternative to Iran and the Arabian Sea. That is shorter, more secure and nearer the major Russian population centres then Gwadar is. I am big fan of CPEC but can we stay realistic please. Yes, Russia being onboard is a good thing but we must keep things in perspective.


2rnAVOT.jpg
But Why should we compare the Bosphorus strait that handles maritime traffic for 4 or 5 landlocked countries plus Russia and Turkey (parts of it), with Karachi that handles only one country's maritime trade?
Shouldn't we wait till CPEC is finished to see the effects on Karachi along with Gwadar?

But Why should we compare the Bosphorus strait that handles maritime traffic for 4 or 5 landlocked countries plus Russia and Turkey (parts of it), with Karachi that handles only one country's maritime trade?
Shouldn't we wait till CPEC is finished to see the effects on Karachi along with Gwadar?
Russia's tilt towards Pakistan will be a body blow for India's security
Moreover, after initially denying Pakistani media reports that Russia would join the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) and acquire access to the Gwadar port, Russia's ambassador to Pakistan, Alexey Y Dedov, has now clarified that Moscow and Islamabad have held discussions to merge the China-backed CPEC with Russia-backed Eurasian Economic Union.

Although Russia continues to insist that its ties with Pakistan will not come at the cost of its ties with India, Moscow's tilt towards Islamabad has certainly injected growing uncertainty in the direction of the India-Russia relationship.

http://www.dailyo.in/politics/isis-...an-ties-cpec-china-taliban/story/1/14918.html

I don't know what you think about this source, but it is from India!
 
A good attempt, it could turn tide.

as for Indo-Russian ties, i doubt they would deteriorate, because of Pakistan.

However Pakistan can improve relations with Russia.
 
The best way to engage Russians in CPEC imho would be to capture Afghanistan. Now that they have given us the opportunity, we should go for the kill.

Agreed. only a visionary person can think like you,
Hint.. For this not only china but also Russia should have some presence in Pakistan and Afghanistan. and USA dont want Russian presence in Afghanistan, ok fine if USA dont want it. Russian Presence in Pakistan can also achieve this task
 
The best way to engage Russians in CPEC imho would be to capture Afghanistan. Now that they have given us the opportunity, we should go for the kill.

We dont even need the whole of Afghanistan, just the Wakhan corridor will do.
 

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