How Pakistan descended into poverty

[VCheng]

Blasphemy
how can you say that with a straight face

I do not care much Sir. I try to always tell it like it is if I remain inclined to participate, an exercise that I am more content to change to mere observation. Pakistan and the Army are almost synonymous. Neither can exist without the other.

I reviewed the numbers months ago in a similar discussion. He's not coming back with a response.

Pity. I would have been a pleasure to observe the predictable results.

 

[Dubious]

but without participation.

Is that even possible?

I

I hope that is "It"

I recall once upon a time you sat down to "fix" my English

 

[VCheng]

Is that even possible?

Watch me.

I hope that is "It"

I recall once upon a time you sat down to "fix" my English

Please quote the full sentence and I can tell you. Your English is just about peerless, I am happy to say.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Pakistan and the Army are almost synonymous.

Definitely not. You are totally ignoring our civil society, technocrats, judiciary, and community leaders.

Neither can exist without the other.

Can any Muslim nation (esp one as maligned by certain world powers) afford to exist without a proper military in this day and age?

Syria, Yemen, Libya, and Iraq are not our ideal.

 

[VCheng]

Definitely not. You are totally ignoring our civil society, technocrats, judiciary, and community leaders.

Pakistan can, and does work very well even without any or all of those elements that you mention. It simply cannot exist without the Army. My point stands.

Can any Muslim nation (esp one as maligned by certain world powers) afford to exist without a proper military in this day and age?

Syria, Yemen, Libya, and Iraq are not our ideal.

As I said above, Pakistan cannot exist without its Army. The Army is indispensable to its existence.

 

[nahtanbob]

Well if we cut it off, I think to make it a fair game, poor neighbours also would need to cut off ....I mean how would it be fair that we cut off while the neighbours dont?

If not for 9/11 American largess would not be flowing into Afghanistan
Are Bangladesh, India, Nepal relying upon CSF payments and handouts from Gulf monarchies ??

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

As I said above, Pakistan cannot exist without its Army. The Army is indispensable to its existence.

Well, given that some of the Indians (Vibrio for example with his 'getting ducks in a row' comment) in touch with the 'Establishment' aren't too bashful about suggesting that India will use military force to dismember Pakistan (if and when the Indian military gets its 'ducks in a row'), yes, the Army is indispensable to Pakistan's existence, much as it is for any country facing major external threats.

If not for 9/11 American largess would not be flowing into Afghanistan
Are Bangladesh, India, Nepal relying upon CSF payments and handouts from Gulf monarchies ??

CSF payments ended a long time ago didn't they? And have India, Nepal and Bangladesh suffered hundreds of billions of dollars in economic losses and tens of thousands dead over the course of the US invasion of Afghanistan?

The answer is no - apples and oranges.

 

[VCheng]

Well, given that some of the Indians (Vibrio for example with his 'getting ducks in a row' comment) in touch with the 'Establishment' aren't too bashful about India using military force to dismember Pakistan, yes, the Army is indispensable to Pakistan's existence, much as it is for any country facing major external threats.

Yes, the Army and the nuclear weapons are surely enough to deal with any and all external threats. But could it be that the real threats are brewing internally to the point where they will be overriding concerns for the Army? Is that possible?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Yes, the Army and the nuclear weapons are surely enough to deal with any and all external threats. But could it be that the real threats are brewing internally to the point where they will be overriding concerns for the Army? Is that possible?

The Army has been pointing out that economic/governance failure and terrorism are existential threats to Pakistan for several years now.

It's obvious really - the military cannot hope to sustain a deterrent against external threats such as India without a strong economy, internal stability and good governance, hence the focus on improving domestic economic, governance and security indicators.

 

[nahtanbob]

CSF payments ended a long time ago didn't they? And have India, Nepal and Bangladesh suffered hundreds of billions of dollars in economic losses and tens of thousands dead over the course of the US invasion of Afghanistan?

The answer is no - apples and oranges.

the largess was in the billions while it lasted

it is a self-inflicted wound. no one asked you to get involved in 1979 Soviet invasion, support for the taliban in 1990s and war on terror. Even today where does the taliban get its support from ?

this is a classic case of "to bite off more than one can chew"

 

[VCheng]

The Army has been pointing out that economic/governance failure and terrorism are existential threats to Pakistan for several years now.

It's obvious really - the military cannot hope to sustain a deterrent against external threats such as India without a strong economy, internal stability and good governance, hence the focus on improving domestic economic, governance and security indicators.

That is good to know. But can one expect to see some sort of plan with the present setup that can even begin to position the country to deal with such huge internal challenges?

 

[Kaniska]

One of the issue when we initiate any rational debate about poverty in India, Pakistan or any of the South Asian nations, the thread gets diverted to other topics. Untill, those issues are sorted out, no meaningful discussion can happen.

My observations with the posts such as the one posted here.

- Any topic that shows Pakistan in a bad light does not mean, India or other South Asian countries are miles ahead with respect to Pakistan...So when any Indian posters are commenting in such topics, we should be aware about the fact that we are not different too.
- For Pakistan posters, it is not necessary that all Non Pakistan poster has an agenda to show Pakistan in a bad way...Each post will have certain reactions that does not necessarily mean, they are hail bent on showing Pakistan in a poor light. If senior Pakistan members feel, Non Pakistan members are not contributing any valid information, then a separate forum to restrict Pakistan related issues where Non Pakistan members can not contribute, may be helpful.

This is the 2nd post that has been posted related to poverty in Pakistan...Honestly speaking, entire South Asia is poor...We always compare ourselves with some one lesser than us to inflate our poor egos....it is more or less the same story for India, Pakistan, Srilanka, BD and other sourrounding nations....what is the big deal with it....India is democratic since last 70 years...But it is not like we are a land of sugar and honey...If i recollect properly, I think, Pakistan econoloy is always good when Army was in control of the power equation in Pakistan.... So why should we always blame Pakistan army for everything....

The so called intellectuals in coffee table always need a scape goat to have an execuse for the misery...But that does not necessarily mean, they are always correct...If a nation is poor, the people of the nations should also share the blame rather than pointing fingers to everyone in this world expect themselves...

 

[Nasr]

That is good to know. But can one expect to see some sort of plan with the present setup that can even begin to position the country to deal with such huge internal challenges?

Why do you suppose Imran Khan came to power as Prime Minister of Pakistan? As a result of decades of corrupt governments lining their pockets. Now we have two good organizations at work, instead of just one. Pakistan Government and Pakistan Military are working to achieve the same objective, to bring about change and shift the trajectory of Pakistan, toward progress. Our success, is within our grasp. Now if the military and government are working for the same goal, all we need is 200 million Pakistanis to stand with Pakistan to make it strong, united and successful. Nothing is achieved without the people of a country, today the people if Pakistan have a very unique opportunity to change their country's future for the better. I hope for their sake, we come together as a nation and strive for our country's success.

 

[VCheng]

Why do you suppose Imran Khan came to power as Prime Minister of Pakistan? As a result of decades of corrupt governments lining their pockets. Now we have two good organizations at work, instead of just one. Pakistan Government and Pakistan Military are working to achieve the same objective, to bring about change and shift the trajectory of Pakistan, toward progress. Our success, is within our grasp. Now if the military and government are working for the same goal, all we need is 200 million Pakistanis to stand with Pakistan to make it strong, united and successful. Nothing is achieved without the people of a country, today the people if Pakistan have a very unique opportunity to change their country's future for the better. I hope for their sake, we come together as a nation and strive for our country's success.

InshaAllah jee, InshaAllah.

 

[HariPrasad]

What's the trend, in terms of percentage of GDP, for the Pakistani defence budget over the last few years?

It's an open source information. You can get it from Google.