How PAF Should Counter the SU-30 MKI

[Skull and Bones]

Well, you forgot 1 thing. The Chinese can produce Jets faster then the Russians

Not denying that, but without any foreign customer and PLAAF not inducting any, they don't have any monetary benefit of running a JF-17 production line.

 

[Mav3rick]

Not denying that, but without any foreign customer and PLAAF not inducting any, they don't have any monetary benefit of running a JF-17 production line.

That may be your understanding. Ours is that both the countries are working hard to fulfill the requirements of PAF (150-250 Jets) and are seriously negotiating with many countries on the sale of JF-17's after internal orders are exhausted. There is also serious development being committed to JF-17's (Block II & Block III) as well as development of a twin seat trainer/fighter Jet.

 

[Storm Force]

Mav3RICK

I can gurantee that THE IAF will sleep very well knowing the PAF are spending all their time, money and effort on securing 150+ JFT Thunders.

WHAT would worry the PANTS off indians is IF THE PAF ever found the FUNDS secure 150 F16 lock 52S or 150 AESA equipped FC20...

JFT is a excellent programme we all acknowledge its VERY LOW COST allows PAF to acquire a BVR capable fighter in very large nos.

BUT it was never designed top FIGHT against a mid 4th generation fighter in a secario where it will be OUTNUMBERED.

its radar power is lightweight by virtue of size and a MSA attena is a slow processor on yiour JFT ... YOU cant match the massive phassed array processor of a BARS PESA radar. The avionics and jammers are world class from israel & france and the AOA is giving the mki huge flexibility.

i am astonished that people think AWACS suppoprt & JFT combined is a credible deterrant..

I BELIEVE THE ATTITUDE IS " LETS HOPE ITS ENOUGH " to seriously damage any indian onslaught "

People talking about JFT block 2 & 3. SOME OF YOU wil be disapointed with both the time ot takes and the overall improvement that JFT can make.

WE are talking about a lightweight fighter its radar its jammers and avionics wll be limited in SIZE and power

More importantly to add compsites and Aesa radars will require HUGE investment and time.

whislt PAF can afford 150+ JFT @ $15m each

CAN IT AFFORD 150 JFT @ £25M each

maveruick thinks PAF will have 150JFT in 4 years with 2 block improvemenmts.

4 YEARS IS TOO SHORT to make significant improvements

AS THE JFT project director quoted JFT currently is a 3.5 gen fighter and 4 years away from becoming a mature reliable platfiorm.

LOOK AT THE TYPHOON & RAFALE & GRIPEN & J10 projects they will a decade into service and their block upgrades dont arrive til 2015 and these nations have resouces and experience we can only dream about.

 

[Aphex]

After Su-30 MKI gets the Super Sukhoi upgrade then you guys won't have chance to counter the plane with plane of your own. You guys probably have to rely on SAMs and other air defense. But really in a war scenario would kinda be useless especially if India moves far into pakistan territory then we would be able to capture some on your air defenses. JFT is a plane that is equal to the lca tejas and f16 would be good against mig 29 but f16 would probably beat it .

 

[INDIAISM]

I don't know how PAF can counter the
Su30 Mki....But i definatly know how Pakistan
Govt can counter Su30 Mki and that is by not indulging in any kind of war against India...
Simple Na Hoga Bas Na Bajegi Bansuri...

 

[chauvunist]

I don't know how PAF can counter the
Su30 Mki....But i definatly know how Pakistan
Govt can counter Su30 Mki and that is by not indulging in any kind of war against India...
Simple Na Hoga Bas Na Bajegi Bansuri...

Yeah and we saw your Govt's response in 2001-02 and after Mumbai attacks...kinda of wise response of your govt otherwise you know what would have happened...

 

[Storm Force]

65 pages into this thread and i think we can summarise

THE SU30MKI threat is massive and growing year in year out...

The are numerous options out there that can counter the MKI even if outnumbered BUT that are not avialable to PAF due to financial limitations & political issues...

It leaves EITHER THE JFT and attempts to UPGRADE this as quickly as possible and get the nos up asap and THEN IN 7-10 YEARS try and get the J31 fifth gen figghhter from CAC

OR to go out and get the SOFT LOANS for J10/FC20 today and invest in yet another 4th gen platform.

IMO the PAF are stil deciding which route is best ..

FOR PAF money is a big issue which means each decision has to be critically assessed and well thought out.

 

[Yeti]

tell me are their RCS same , if su-30 would have been stealthy it would surely have been a threat , but now it is not that much threat to us , our jets can easily detect it from about 100km away that,s what they need ... in battle they will need range of 50 km or little more


jammer doesn't guarantee that your jet is secure , work has been done on it , and we have advance quality anti jamming pods from china , remember china too have access to this technology

It is impossible to say what the outcome will be without ever having faced each other also there are various Electronic countermeasures the Su-30MKI has in place not to mention the Bars radar which is very powerful and can also act as a mini-AWACS. A fighter is only as good as the weapons it holds that is something which is not even being discussed on here.

 

[selvan33]

Yeah and we saw your Govt's response in 2001-02 and after Mumbai attacks...kinda of wise response of your govt otherwise you know what would have happened...

we are not afraid of you. but we want to develop our nation.that's why we are avoiding war. but not like you peoples. you wont develop your own nation and also you are not allowing other peoples to develop.

 

[DARKY]

Yes but the award has yet to be awarded.....deliveries and training is a matter in some distance too. You will see swift reaction from our side once acquisition begins.

yeah the swift reaction against 200+ Su 30MKI can be already seen.

Lol.....you like repeating nonsense.
Yes it will, probably even sooner.
All that are in service and more.
Google
Spada is the tip of the iceberg.

Yeah sense is non sense there in your country and for you It seems.
Bars are a generation ahead of KLJ-7 simply due to the fact that it uses a phased array antenna while KLJ-7 uses slotted planar array which is mechanically steered.
The Figures for KLJ-7 stands at 75Km for 3m^2 in look up and 35km for the same in look down mode.
While for BARS its stands at 220Km for 3m^2... Besides that It the radars stand replacement with a more powerful Zhuk-ASE which would give figures of upto 400km for 3m^2 targets.
However It is useless explaining such things as your madarsa educated brain would find that funny and nonsense.

It isn't as of now.. and you didn't mention which AWE&C.

I asked "What are ground based EW/ECM/ECCM ? What affect they have on air borne radars ?"
since you claimed you prove... or is it done otherwise there in Pakistan.

And Su30 is Just the tip... there are death stars and Aladdin's lamp with our airforce.

And invest time, on you?? Why don't you do a bit of research, for your own self?

For your own good.
How can Know what you collected and conclude about such.

Right!! Do you, even yourself believe that?

Yeah is there any problem with that ?
Or is it wrong according to your madarssa logic ?

Reading Wiki again? Anyway, the Russian Jammers are crap, all that you can rely on are some Israeli Jammers (not available on all MKI's).

I cannot help you on that... you simply seem to defy Physics here the SAP518/SAP14 combo which is more powerful than the ALQ jammers and ECM present on Growler is somehow crap.
Israeli jammers are available for Mig21bisons even and they did score kills on F-15/16s using that.. during cope Indias.

I did, but still cannot find any such encounter where the MKI had supposedly completed it's mission before being 'escorted' out

How can a destroyer escort a supersonic fighter... same with a SAM battery... are you all right ?

I am saying that there has never been a Russian BVR kill!!! Not a single one! How's that my friend? I am also saying that the Russians rely on missile salvos because their missiles are not reliable enough for a single shot single kill probability or any probability above 0.7, They have to usually fire 4 missiles for a probability kill of 0.8 or greater. The Americans achieve that probability with a single Missile!

USAF has fired 13 AIM120 BVR and achieved success on only 6 a success rate of 45% much higher than your claimed estimate about Russians BVRs.

I found no such link, not only that....I couldn't find any confirmed kills of any Russian BVR Missile anywhere!

You'll find only when you look for it
Its at the post #906.

There would be no restrictions on use of F-16's if a war is thrust upon us. That's all that matters.

You cannot datalink F-16block52 with your swedish or chinese AWACS is one example of it... where is the trust ?

 

[Bratva]

yeah the swift reaction against 200+ Su 30MKI can be already seen.






Yeah sense is non sense there in your country and for you It seems.
Bars are a generation ahead of KLJ-7 simply due to the fact that it uses a phased array antenna while KLJ-7 uses slotted planar array which is mechanically steered.
The Figures for KLJ-7 stands at 75Km for 3m^2 in look up and 35km for the same in look down mode.
While for BARS its stands at 220Km for 3m^2... Besides that It the radars stand replacement with a more powerful Zhuk-ASE which would give figures of upto 400km for 3m^2 targets.
However It is useless explaining such things as your madarsa educated brain would find that funny and nonsense.

It isn't as of now.. and you didn't mention which AWE&C.

I asked "What are ground based EW/ECM/ECCM ? What affect they have on air borne radars ?"
since you claimed you prove... or is it done otherwise there in Pakistan.

And Su30 is Just the tip... there are death stars and Aladdin's lamp with our airforce.



For your own good.
How can Know what you collected and conclude about such.





Yeah is there any problem with that ?
Or is it wrong according to your madarssa logic ?






I cannot help you on that... you simply seem to defy Physics here the SAP518/SAP14 combo which is more powerful than the ALQ jammers and ECM present on Growler is somehow crap.
Israeli jammers are available for Mig21bisons even and they did score kills on F-15/16s using that.. during cope Indias.




How can a destroyer escort a supersonic fighter... same with a SAM battery... are you all right ?






USAF has fired 13 BVR and achieved success on only 6 a success rate of 45% much higher than your claimed estimate about Russians BVRs.




You'll find only when you look for it
Its at the post #906.





You cannot datalink F-16block52 with your swedish or chinese AWACS is one example of it... where is the trust ?

DARKY, KLJ-7 official range is 135 KM according to recent updated stats.. You should keep yourself updated more. Instead of spreading BS here and there.

Who says we can not datalink F-16 with Swedish and chinese AWAC? Another BS madeup by you?

And ofcourse, you are going to be banned for this post of yours. be Ready. you have crossed the threshold even after Mod Warning.


MIG-21 made Kills againg F-15 because DOG fight under a restricted environment where F-15 were restrcited to use it's ability. Good BS example you qoute in a debate which is discussing an all out war scenario

 

[Bratva]

Go to JF-17 Info Pool to get the updated states disclosed by JF-17 Project Director. 135 Km for 5m^2 And PAF is not found of releasing any kind of news. What kind of source codes needed for data linking with Swedish AWAC? That's the first time i'm hearing this from you.

 

[DARKY]

Go to JF-17 Info Pool to get the updated states disclosed by JF-17 Project Director. 135 Km for 5m^2 And PAF is not found of releasing any kind of news. What kind of source codes needed for data linking with Swedish AWAC? That's the first time i'm hearing this from you.

Which is 30Km more than the original for 5m2... can you provide me the link... searching over 600 pages is not what you do on the Christmas night.

Link 16 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You'll hear a lot of new things If you clear the cobwebs of BS information which has been floating around since an year or 2 here on this forum.

 

[abdulbarijan]

Which is 30Km more than the original for 5m2... can you provide me the link... searching over 600 pages is not what you do on the Christmas night.

Link 16 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You'll hear a lot of new things If you clear the cobwebs of BS information which has been floating around since an year or 2 here on this forum.

Kanwa had an interview with PAF's General Javaid Ahmed, during which he stated that:
- In 2012, they will be bring out the JF17 Blk 2. The main improvements are the addition of IFR, the development of a twin seat version, adding datalink and development of an export version JF17.
- happy with the performance of the KJL7, so no immediate plans to switch to AESA (KJL7 specs: detection range for fighter sized target 130km; can track 16 targets and engage 2 at the same time; have SAR mapping capability)
- The Chinese indigenous engine is currently undergoing flight testing and may be a while before it is fitted to a JF17
- In 2011 the JF17 test fired: 1 x C802 (hit a seaborne target 90km away, max range 180km); 2 x LS-6 bombs, one is a 500kg GPS guided weapon with 60km range and CEP of 15m, the other was a 250kg laser/IIR+GPS guided weapon with a range of 65km and CEP of 5.3-7.5m; SD10 and other weapons.
translation credits -Plawolf

Its not 135 its stated at 130 Km for 5m2 RCS as per PAF's Javaid ahmed which was then published by Kanwa

 

[DARKY]

Its not 135 its stated at 130 Km for 5m2 RCS as per PAF's Javaid ahmed which was then published by Kanwa.

Which is to be used on block 2... and aren't present on block 1 as of now.