How PAF Should Counter the SU-30 MKI

[rockstarIN]

You need a source more credible than Sir Parvez Shamim . An individual who has served for more than 20 years in the PAF and worked for 10 years in General Dynamics. You cannot find a source more impeccable or trustworthy than Parvez Shamim or Murad Khan.



Really? So can you please explain how F7PG's were taking shots during High Mark 2010 exercises from a distance of 40 km, or how Mirage III's during an exercise in 2009 were taking shots from a distance of 60km. Strange isn't it that PAF is not in possession of a BVR according to you but they have been practising BVR warfare for over a decade.

Upgraded Mirage fire control radar (Grifo M3 radar) range is only 35km.

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

And each time you post something as the first line, you prove how "intelligent" you are.

Russian BVR's not finding their marks may have a lot of other factors but US BVR's finding their mark also had a lot of other factors, yet they vectored on to the target.

Yes, the other factors include:
Better American radars
Nicely maintained american jets
Better trained pilots

But idiots like you will put all blame on the missile since India posses these missiles. Shows your knowledge level.

 

[airomerix]

Now that you know what it is, you know that it is impossible for kill probability of a BVR missile to exist.

Note that probability of kill is defined for a particular combat situation, eg, a Su30 MKI firing an R77 at F16 blk 52 from a distance of 50 km when F16 is moving towards it, and the Falcon will take countermeasures against the incoming missile.

Note the number of factors involved in this. If EW suite of F16 or radar of MKI is upgraded, probability of kill for the scenario will change. Probability of kill is not a sole function of the missile and so kill probability of a missile cannot exist.

It is possible to determine the effectiveness of a missile if all other factors are kept standard. But those tests (if they take place) take place only the labs of companies like Raytheon and there is no way for us to know it. The only results in public domain are about real time combat situations which hardly gives an idea about the missile capabilities. When you give these missiles to countries like Eritria and Iraq, who use them bad maintained Mig-29s piloted by badly trained pilots, you can't expect very good kill ratio. If this gives some reason to cheer to our western friends, so be it. There are no taxes on dreaming.

What the F*** are you ranting now? All you have been doing is just posting baseless BS.

Note that probability of kill is defined for a particular combat situation

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...ould-counter-su-30-mki-104.html#ixzz2HNCa4tM5

What else do you expect? You'll be firing your BVR's in non combat situation?

Note the number of factors involved in this.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...ould-counter-su-30-mki-104.html#ixzz2HNCog3Jm

Now you're taking a look at number of factors. It was better to look at them before you bluntly refuted the existence of "Probability of Kill"

It is possible to determine the effectiveness of a missile if all other factors are kept standard

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...ould-counter-su-30-mki-104.html#ixzz2HNDCE6iO

Keep your 3rd copy of Einstine to yourself!

And find a shadow to disappear in it forever.

 

[Mav3rick]

Upgraded Mirage fire control radar (Grifo M3 radar) range is only 35km.

Grifo M series radars are licensed copies of APG-68 Radars, their actual track and scan ranges have always been classified. However, the range you have specified is not accurate as the 400-450 W Radar is estimated to have a scan range of 80+ km's and track range of 45+ km. But actual ranges are classified. Not only that, the PAF Mirages (ROSE upgraded) carried Exocet.AM39 anti-ship missiles that had a range of 50-70km's.

Have found an interesting post by a respected fellow member:

This is highly debatable as you are claiming something which is far from reality. JFT radar has publicized detection range of 105 km against 5m2 target and Su-30 even if, has RCS of 10m2, will be detected at around 200-210 kms!! I bet BARS cannot detect a 3m2 target even at 150 kms and JFT is much less than 3m2 so MKI will have a hard time detecting the JFT at advertised range. Reality is, it will most likely be the other way around.

I hope it makes sense to the highly "intelligent" Indians!

 

[DARKY]

So now, not even the F-16's are BVR capable? I don't know what to say.

I believe and rightly so... that yo have problem in reading and understanding things.
Read again... what was written there If its worth the effort.

First of all, how would you or anybody else know how many hours PAF pilots have clocked on the F-16's?? We have operated them for many decades and we were overhauling and manufacturing spares when they were blocked under the pressler amendment. Even under the severest of sanctions we kept our F's flying. It's quite amateurish to consider that PAF pilots have less experience then RSAF F-16 pilot.

Not only that, PAF pilots shot down IsAF Jets flying Russian Jets that they were not used to flying, I am sure PAF must be doing something right in their development and training.

And well, there is still no proof that IAF pilots ever flew RSAF F-16 B52's. The pictures merely show pilots standing and chatting, most likely the IAF pilots are admiring the F-16, from a safe distance after a flight on their own jets!

Go and read the data on F-16.net.. It gives the name of the pilots who clocked over 1000hrs on F-16.
Russian jets whose copies[Chinese] they had flown earlier... Its not your tricycle kid supersonic jets are no joke... and what makes you sure ?... If you are so sure why wasting other's time on thread.. be sure and sleep tight... you can report the thread and hope it closes down.
People like you cannot have proof... Is there a proof that you are human and not a Delusional bot ?
... what planes do you see on run way ?
Which is usually the case when a group returns from a sortie or is heading for one.
F-16 is not your favorite cartoon show and those pilots are not 8 year old girls.
Mean while there was also a link posted about Thai Airforce F-16...being flown by IAF pilots.

You, most likely, wouldn't be surprised if IAF pilots haven't even had a chance to climb into RSAF F-16's cockpit. But know something and admitting it are different matter. Anyway, provide proof and I will accept. I merely do not accept because there is no proof and because the US has very stringent policies about usage of their equipment.

No need to be surprised... what I know is that they have been flying them for more than 2-3 years... You can stay in your Delusion dreams.

Does that make any sense, in any part of the world??

Yes.. The for rest of the world.

You don't understand the term 'intelligence' or 'practicality' or 'proof' yet you keep ranting on those, you have no how to provide proof as the brochure that you posted had not a single line on TRMM's or the detection range of Phalcon!

Please provide proof, or GTFO!!

No one is coming to your place... better GTFO from the Delusion world and be reasonable... and stop embarrassing the name of your country on some international forum... there are always those alien no-body understand lang. forms where you can go and express your sure-ity about what PAF is doing and it must e doing well...

 

[Mav3rick]

I believe and rightly so... that yo have problem in reading and understanding things.
Read again... what was written there If its worth the effort.

A retard can do only that, post retarded things!

Go and read the data on F-16.net.. It gives the name of the pilots who clocked over 1000hrs on F-16.
Russian jets whose copies[Chinese] they had flown earlier... Its not your tricycle kid supersonic jets are no joke... and what makes you sure ?... If you are so sure why wasting other's time on thread.. be sure and sleep tight... you can report the thread and hope it closes down.
People like you cannot have proof... Is there a proof that you are human and not a Delusional bot ?
... what planes do you see on run way ?
Which is usually the case when a group returns from a sortie or is heading for one.
F-16 is not your favorite cartoon show and those pilots are not 8 year old girls.
Mean while there was also a link posted about Thai Airforce F-16...being flown by IAF pilots.

And the stupidity continues. The link that was posted, son, was about the 'possibility' yet no other information exists which states that any such thing actually happened either in Thailand or India!!!!

And you can continue your idiotic rants. I know you will not be bringing forth any proof so you by default have to revert to trolling.

No need to be surprised... what I know is that they have been flying them for more than 2-3 years... You can stay in your Delusion dreams.

It's no surprise, the whole world knows what IAF have been flying for the past 2-3 years and even before, too bad for you that F-16 is not one of them!!

And yet, just as expected, no proof!

Yes.. The for rest of the world.

You honestly need professional help, I hope your parents can afford it.

No one is coming to your place... better GTFO from the Delusion world and be reasonable... and stop embarrassing the name of your country on some international forum... there are always those alien no-body understand lang. forms where you can go and express your sure-ity about what PAF is doing and it must e doing well...

I can understand your frustration at lack of proof of imaginary things. Taking it out on me won't solve anything, you have already dragged the name of your country as low as I thought you could but you are still going on.

Now that I do know you have not even a hint of proof, GTFO!!

 

[Skull and Bones]

@Aeronaut

Don't you think this thread served it's purpose?

 

[arp2041]

@Aeronaut

Don't you think this thread served it's purpose?

Yes, i also think the same, now we should look ahead:

How PAF Should Counter the Dassault Rafale

 

[Skull and Bones]

Yes, i also think the same, now we should look ahead:

How PAF Should Counter the Dassault Rafale

Yes, and after 2017, how should PAF counter Sukhoi T-50 PAK FA.

 

[Markus]

105 pages and people still debating as to how PAF will face the MKI.

Tough bird the MKI is !

 

[arp2041]

105 pages and people still debating as to how PAF will face the MKI.

Tough bird the MKI is !

Imagine the no. of Pages if a new thread on countering Rafale or FGFA comes up

 

[Markus]

Imagine the no. of Pages if a new thread on countering Rafale or FGFA comes up

This forum will run out of bandwidth but even then those discussions will not end.

 

[DARKY]

A retard can do only that, post retarded things!

You are right about yourself on that part...

And the stupidity continues. The link that was posted, son, was about the 'possibility' yet no other information exists which states that any such thing actually happened either in Thailand or India!!!!

And you can continue your idiotic rants. I know you will not be bringing forth any proof so you by default have to revert to trolling.

The obvious response... now you ask for proofs.
I wonder you with your maths master... and you asking him the proof as to why 2+2=4

It's no surprise, the whole world knows what IAF have been flying for the past 2-3 years and even before, too bad for you that F-16 is not one of them!!

And yet, just as expected, no proof!

Why you burning you arse extra time... IAF already evaluated the Best F-16 package available on over 600 different parameters at different places all over India.
You want proof...

You honestly need professional help, I hope your parents can afford it.

something which your parents could not afford... obvious...

I can understand your frustration at lack of proof of imaginary things. Taking it out on me won't solve anything, you have already dragged the name of your country as low as I thought you could but you are still going on.

Now that I do know you have not even a hint of proof, GTFO!!

One can see where that is coming from.... pity you..
Long live .. you happy now... no Su30MKI will scare your nights.
you want proof of this too...

 

[rockstarIN]

Grifo M series radars are licensed copies of APG-68 Radars, their actual track and scan ranges have always been classified. However, the range you have specified is not accurate as the 400-450 W Radar is estimated to have a scan range of 80+ km's and track range of 45+ km. But actual ranges are classified. Not only that, the PAF Mirages (ROSE upgraded) carried Exocet.AM39 anti-ship missiles that had a range of 50-70km's.

Have found an interesting post by a respected fellow member:



I hope it makes sense to the highly "intelligent" Indians!

Even if I go by your figures, If the tracking range is 45km, how they shoot missiles @60km as written by N.E

And for the RCS v/s detection range, read my earlier post here regarding the antenna size.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Grifo M series radars are licensed copies of APG-68 Radars, their actual track and scan ranges have always been classified. However, the range you have specified is not accurate as the 400-450 W Radar is estimated to have a scan range of 80+ km's and track range of 45+ km. But actual ranges are classified. Not only that, the PAF Mirages (ROSE upgraded) carried Exocet.AM39 anti-ship missiles that had a range of 50-70km's.

That's a big lol. Weight of APG-68 is 164 kg with MTBF of 390 hours, while the weight of Grifo M is less than 120 kg with MTBF of about 220 hours.

This guy is shamelessly trolling in this thread, and we're feeding this troll. And FYI, every details of Grifo-M (200) is available on it's makers website.

Just a summary from Selex

http://www.selex-sas.com/~/media/Fi...backgrounders/04grifo-family-backgrounder.pdf