What's new

How much debt China can bear?

Status
Not open for further replies.

I think the article you referenced had wrong number of China's GDP. It goes "China's government debt amounts to about 17.5 trillion yuan (2.78 trillion U.S. dollars), about 43 percent of the country's gross domestic product..."

But China's GDP in 2011 was 41 trillion. 17/41=36%

freaking ponzi scheme. they hide their debt under state govts and central govt has no debt at all. loll an economy of 6 tril and debt only 16% :cheesy:

i am not gonaa argue with this chini dragon as he knows the reality but will try his best to hide it, infact calling india a ponzi scheme.



nop thats just central, its close to 160% overall and if u add the debt of spv idk maybe 200%, this is the view of the 90% of economists and bilionares around the world.

China's economy was 7.3 trllion USD last year. And government debt was 17 trillion RMB or 2.6~2.7 trillion USD in 2012.
 
.
indian use these made up numbers to prove that chinese economy is in danger.
In fact ,those numbers are mass produced by guys like jim chanos firstly.Because they bet heavily on the collapse of china.
Indians just took it without thinking as usual.
But apparently most of international investors doesn't trust those BS.
that's why It's indian rupee falls so fast,not chinese RMB.
 
.
indian use these made up numbers to prove that chinese economy is in danger.
In fact ,those numbers are mass produced by guys like jim chanos firstly.Because they bet heavily on the collapse of china.
Indians just took it without thinking as usual.
But apparently most of international investors doesn't trust those BS.
that's why It's indian rupee falls so fast,not chinese RMB.

Go.. find how usdcny changed between 1984 to 1994 .. and you'll surprise yourself.

something like 3-4 times !!!
 
.
indian use these made up numbers to prove that chinese economy is in danger.
In fact ,those numbers are mass produced by guys like jim chanos firstly.Because they bet heavily on the collapse of china.
Indians just took it without thinking as usual.
But apparently most of international investors doesn't trust those BS.
that's why It's indian rupee falls so fast,not chinese RMB.

It maybe not their fault. China's economy grows too fast that gdp statistics soon becomes outdated after release.
 
.
Here’s some terrific news about China’s economy: at the end of last year, the debt-to-GDP ratio of the Chinese government, the key measure of its fiscal sustainability, stood at 16.3%. That’s an improvement from the already impressive 17% at year-end 2010.

Based in large part on Beijing’s low debt load, the Economist’s “wiggle-room index,” which ranks economies on their ability to afford stimulative measures, assigns a great rating to China. Of 27 emerging nations, only petroleum-blessed Saudi Arabia and Indonesia look stronger.


China does not have as urgent a need to bolster growth as other newly developing countries, the Economist suggests, and in any event it has lots of space to wiggle. “China’s ample room for easing supports the case for a soft rather than a hard landing of its economy,” the publication says.

All this sounds wonderful, but none of it correlates with the facts. The 16.3% calculation excludes Beijing’s “hidden liabilities.” Once you add them in, China’s debt-to-GDP ratio increases to somewhere between 90% and 160%. And if you believe Beijing has been overstating its GDP recently—it has, at least starting from the last quarter of last year—China’s ratio approximates Greece’s 164%.

Analysts, surprisingly, don’t seem to be concerned about Beijing’s debt, no matter how it is calculated. As Tom Holland of the South China Morning Post points out, the assumption is that China can grow its way out of this problem because it has always been able to do so in the past.

China’s economy, despite the Economist’s assessment, is already landing hard. January’s results were dismal—the economy looks like it may even have contracted last month—and there will not be much improvement until the summer, if then. If there is no marked uptick this year, Beijing faces difficult choices because, as the “ghost city” phenomenon indicates, there has been a gross misallocation of capital since the end of 2008.

What are Beijing’s choices? First, central government technocrats could force the banks to absorb losses. At first glance, it appears the banks could afford substantial write-offs. The industry’s non-performing loan ratio was 0.96% at the end of last year, down from an already unbelievable 1.14% at the end of 2010. Yet the central government will not force banks to write off large quantities of loans because the year-end 2011 ratio does not reflect the real state of bank balance sheets. The Ministry of Finance could again recapitalize the banks, but that may not be feasible. The central government has yet to clear all the bad loans from the big bailout at the end of the 1990s. China’s hidden liabilities include warehoused loans from that era, which Holland estimates amount to 7.5% of GDP.

So there is no or minimal growth, the banks are not strong enough to shoulder significant losses, and the central government is weighed down by 1990s-era bad loans. What is a central government technocrat to do?

“Beijing can take the path traditionally followed by other governments around the world and inflate its way out of the problem,” Holland wrote on Friday. The general downward trend in consumer inflation looks to offer some flexibility, but prices—and especially those for food—are going up much faster than the numbers issued by the Bureau of National Statistics indicate.

It would be easy to create more inflation. The renminbi has strengthened recently, but most analysts believe Beijing will end the upward movement in the next few months, in large measure to rescue ailing export factories, to make Chinese products cheaper on world markets. The inevitable result of a depreciating currency would be inflation, which would help the central government erode the value of its mounting debt.

Of course, China’s citizens, who accumulated 37.0 trillion yuan in household deposits by the end of last month, would be hurt by this tactic, but for more than three decades Beijing, by fixing deposit rates at abnormally low levels, has maintained an economic model that has punished them to help borrowers. Low deposit rates would depress consumption by keeping money out of the hands of citizens, but Chinese leaders have never been serious about building a consumer economy. In no economy today does consumption play a lower role.

And in a China where everything is political, there is one more factor to consider. Communist Party leaders are extraordinarily sensitive to inflation due to its potential to create widespread social unrest.

So, yes, there would be many disadvantages to using inflation to solve China’s debt situation, but at this moment it looks like the least bad option for Beijing’s out-of-solutions technocrats. The Economist may believe they once had lots of room to wiggle, but their choices are all unpalatable—and they are narrowing fast.

How Will China Pay Off Its Debt? - Forbes
 
.
Go.. find how usdcny changed between 1984 to 1994 .. and you'll surprise yourself.

something like 3-4 times !!!

If you don't know the history of China's exchange rate reformation in the late 80s and early 90s, you should stop talking like stupid.

As for Greek's 164% are the government bond to GDP ratio while China's government bond (central government debt) is about 17% of GDP. (The local government debts are of the same scale.)

Japan's government bond to GDP ratio is 210%, yet it's still a country 40 times richer than India.

Lol,that's 20 years before,indian cow.

You shouldn't had talked like that about Indian Gods.
 
.
yeah.. so.. 3-4 times depreciation is 10 years ... and then buy dollars by selling china cheap (under FDI)..

(most of the dollars were bought at cheap usdcny of 8.6 .. so USA bought china will lower number of dollars).

and now, when dollars are being withdrawn from china.... usa companies pay only 6.4 units to get back a dollar.!!!

When USA wants to get into China .... depreciate so that they enter cheap ...and when they want to withdraw, appreciate .. so that they exit with large profits .. Stupid Chinese.

Anway, Good service to Uncle Sam ... like true good slaves.
usd/cny has bever been trade at 2 or 3,it was just a meaningless number,you know nothing about chinese economy.you are too stupid.
 
.
.
Look who bowed to America in the last few days. :rofl:

India bows to US pressure, cuts Iran oil import by 11% - Times Of India

India also said there were 500 incursions from Chinese forces across the Indian border in recent years, yet you bowed once again by doing nothing. You just whined instead. :cheesy:

check out how .. china replied .. to all this.

And we should benefit from both Iran and USA ... why to choose one?

Paying Iran in rupees ... and nuclear power from USA.

True.. we need to import a LOTTT of energy... have to live with it.

Footnote: I can't call chinese cows .. like your friend wanted to refer us .... rat is the only appropriate thing, i could find. So, don't inflate passions by "bolding" it.
 
. .
check out how .. china replied .. to all this.

And we should benefit from both Iran and USA ... why to choose one?

Paying Iran in rupees ... and nuclear power from USA.

True.. we need to import a LOTTT of energy... have to live with it.

Footnote: I can't call chinese cows .. like your friend wanted to refer us .... rat is the only appropriate thing, i could find. So, don't inflate passions by "bolding" it.

Really?I think some indian worship rats too?
 
.
Hey Indians, how's your crashing economy treating ya? Still too lazy to actually work?
 
.
.
simple logic.. higeher you go harder you fall.. i am waiting for chinas fall with a cold beer
 
.
China government revenue 2011: $1.65 trillion
China government expenditure 2011 : $1.72 trillion.
The fiscal deficit : $75 billion, 5% of government revenue and 1% of GDP.
See my post:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/168293-2011-china-government-revenue-up-24-8-1-65-trillion.html

China trade surplus in 2011: $200 billion.

How could China has a 170% GDP debt? All the expenses all been checked by the audit and supervision, also open to the public.
What a huge government spending, who can hide? If officials hope to corruption, they will hide the revenue, not hide the expenditure.


Now we turn to India.
India government revenues 2011: $218.7 billion
India government expenses 2011: $311.2 billion
The fiscal deficit : $100 billion, 50% of government revenue and 6% of GDP ....wow.


India trade deficit in 2011 : 185 billion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_India

Through the comparision, you may know why China has a AA rating , while India is only BBB-.
 
.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom