How many حافظ hafiz were in یزید army.

[Goenitz]

And why so much media blitz on him being a Hafiz, just to get the positive sentiments in Army lower rank and file and in Awam, after so much ridicule and criticism.

The biggest thugs I have encountered are bearded guys with a religious background. All were property dealers and corrupt in business.

.haha this idiotic analogy takes it all.

I disagree with Mufti on some religious matters as he is just a graduate and not a scholar. Yes, he is a Mufti, a certified person to give Fatwa but he has no research. He just gives past precedence in this new age.

Nonetheless, he lacks knowledge about politics and his political opinion is naive. Lastly, Gen Zia achieved some feats in his tenure but still has an overall detest personality. He managed Afghan war well as a Gen and President. His political engineering has ruined the country.

 

[Cash GK]

Standing right side of history is main thing. We have life span of 50 or 70 mex....

And

There is no comparison between Nawaz Shareef and his daughter's struggle with the struggle of Prophet S.A.W and his beloved most respected daughter R.A. Similarly there is no comparison between Khan and Imam HUSSAIN R.A period.

No leader in today's world is equal to the dirt of Imam HUSSAIN R.A footwear.

First understand the topic then jump in conclusions. Lale

 

[truthseeker2010]

the Pak army are ultimately a force for the good of the people apart from the political engineering and dodgy dabbling by the top brass

What good have this army done for the country? Since you have actually answered it in your latter part of reply.

 

[mudas777]

The issue I had with the OP was the comparison between the army of يزيد and the Pak army. The army of يريد are ALL doomed to hell for their blatant spread of corruption, whilst the Pak army are ultimately a force for the good of the people apart from the political engineering and dodgy dabbling by the top brass

You need to grow up and broaden your horizons. Every country in the world have got army in some shape or form and they too loose lives and limbs that's the nature of the job and that's why they volunteer their services and they get paid for their services. Before they join the army they all know what's required of them for the job. Its a plain and simple job if they don't like it country can hire someone else and there are plenty of takers so lets stop this bull crap.
Now i must enlighten you what's the consequences of having such a large standing army are less jobs for others, no clean water and sewerage facilities for millions, no education for kids, plenty of my country folk go hungry at night and list is endless. If invaders are not killing us due to our brave army people are dying in their homes due to mal nutritionment and go check the statistics how many kids don't even see the 5th birthday.
Our generals are using our army for their economic and political gains and they being used as a tool for their budmashi. Up to officers rank i have got total respect but upper echelon need to be taken to the drying cleaning task no wander they have lost all the wars, Kashmir is still occupied and India is still sitting in the Siachen.
Look at our neighbours in China, India, Iran and Taliban its the people who rule not the army and they have gone through worse turmoil then us.

​

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

You need to grow up and broaden your horizons. Every country in the world have got army in some shape or form and they too loose lives and limbs that's the nature of the job and that's why they volunteer their services and they get paid for their services. Before they join the army they all know what's required of them for the job. Its a plain and simple job if they don't like it country can hire someone else and there are plenty of takers so lets stop this bull crap.
Now i must enlighten you what's the consequences of having such a large standing army are less jobs for others, no clean water and sewerage facilities for millions, no education for kids, plenty of my country folk go hungry at night and list is endless. If invaders are not killing us due to our brave army people are dying in their homes due to mal nutritionment and go check the statistics how many kids don't even see the 5th birthday.
Our generals are using our army for their economic and political gains and they being used as a tool for their budmashi. Up to officers rank i have got total respect but upper echelon need to be taken to the drying cleaning task no wander they have lost all the wars, Kashmir is still occupied and India is still sitting in the Siachen.
Look at our neighbours in China, India, Iran and Taliban its the people who rule not the army and they have gone through worse turmoil then us.

​

It's a myth that army eats up money that was to be used on food and education.
Your self made delusion..

 

[Imran Khan]

less then we have in pak army

 

[AlKardai]

You need to grow up and broaden your horizons. Every country in the world have got army in some shape or form and they too loose lives and limbs that's the nature of the job and that's why they volunteer their services and they get paid for their services. Before they join the army they all know what's required of them for the job. Its a plain and simple job if they don't like it country can hire someone else and there are plenty of takers so lets stop this bull crap.
Now i must enlighten you what's the consequences of having such a large standing army are less jobs for others, no clean water and sewerage facilities for millions, no education for kids, plenty of my country folk go hungry at night and list is endless. If invaders are not killing us due to our brave army people are dying in their homes due to mal nutritionment and go check the statistics how many kids don't even see the 5th birthday.
Our generals are using our army for their economic and political gains and they being used as a tool for their budmashi. Up to officers rank i have got total respect but upper echelon need to be taken to the drying cleaning task no wander they have lost all the wars, Kashmir is still occupied and India is still sitting in the Siachen.
Look at our neighbours in China, India, Iran and Taliban its the people who rule not the army and they have gone through worse turmoil then us.

​

There is no way in hell that the military budget has such a large correlation with the poor state of the country that you talk about. I actually reckon that the Pak Army is one of the biggest contributors to GDP within Pakistan, because of their investments in Property chains, Fuel Stations, Infrastructure and Business.

The issue isn't their political engineering, or their involvement in these matters, but rather their incompetence in choosing the right leaders to increase the overall wealth of the country and make life better for the common man

 

[Goenitz]

biggest contributors to GDP within Pakistan, because of their investments in Property chains, Fuel Stations, Infrastructure and Business.

Nope.. It is natural resources (arable or orchards or mountains) which are taken by force or monopoly and converted into a real state. Now, it will generate income if it has offices, markets, and high pop density. Else, it is a one-time investment (land+construction). So, a metropolitan is required where companies (foreign mainly) invest and do business.
It can bring FDI if overseas Pakistanis buy it.
Fauji Fertilisers, PIA, etc, all are showing negative growth.

Fauji Foods losses continue, despite revenue growth

In a great year for its parent conglomerate, the food subsidiary continues to struggle as it faces stiff competition

profit.pakistantoday.com.pk

Lastly, the pensions of army personals come from the federal budget.

but rather their incompetence in choosing the right leaders to increase the overall wealth of the country and make life better for the common man

It is not their job and their biggest crime.
First, they go out of the constitution and the 2nsd that, they install corrupt to serve them.

 

[TheSolution]

It is not their job and their biggest crime.

If it has a net positive impact then it is not a crime and doesn't matter if isn't their job since they're doing something good

Question arises is when they're venturing into territory with no understanding and failing, now that is a crime

 

[Goenitz]

If it has a net positive impact then it is not a crime and doesn't matter if isn't their job since they're doing something good

Question arises is when they're venturing into territory with no understanding and failing, now that is a crime

I don't mind the machiavellian approach, but one should know when to quit. Because in the process we create too many loopholes and monsters that things may get out of control.

Like defeating the Soviets, creating extremists, using drug money, etc.. all can be justified/debated.

Islamic approach is to use the right path from the beginning. Even if we have to choose between two evils, go for the least one.

The establishment t goal was hegemony and not prosperous Pakistan. Their shallow thinking in the economy, foreign policy, and politics has created a fiasco.

In their mind, they do good things (or inheritedly evil), but they make it worse.

Now, in this case that Pak should be in the US camp and must be in the wets side in Ukr-Russia war. Let the politicians handle it. Perhaps, they can convince the US politicians about our neutrality.

But the army was so afraid that it killed the parliament and installed filth on top. That has taken back Pak years behind. In this global recession, even the US will not help Pak now. See their aid in our biggest flood disaster.

 

[AlKardai]

Nope.. It is natural resources (arable or orchards or mountains) which are taken by force or monopoly and converted into a real state. Now, it will generate income if it has offices, markets, and high pop density. Else, it is a one-time investment (land+construction). So, a metropolitan is required where companies (foreign mainly) invest and do business.
It can bring FDI if overseas Pakistanis buy it.
Fauji Fertilisers, PIA, etc, all are showing negative growth.

Fauji Foods losses continue, despite revenue growth

In a great year for its parent conglomerate, the food subsidiary continues to struggle as it faces stiff competition

profit.pakistantoday.com.pk

Lastly, the pensions of army personals come from the federal budget.

It is not their job and their biggest crime.
First, they go out of the constitution and the 2nsd that, they install corrupt to serve them.

Fauji foods in particular was a bit of a gamble. It seems to be a dying company anyway, even before the Fauj bought it.

Also, I'm pretty sure Fauji Fertiliser is doing well from what I can see, with 20% net growth in 2021

If it has a net positive impact then it is not a crime and doesn't matter if isn't their job since they're doing something good

Question arises is when they're venturing into territory with no understanding and failing, now that is a crime

At this point, the army not respecting the Constitution should be seen as a given.
We can't do much about this, nor will they likely change from this tack
However, we can make the best out of a bad situation and potentially turn it into a good one if the populace stands by them, and if they put good civilian leaders in place to deal with the economic matters and to aid the army's companies where they fall short.

 

[mudas777]

It's a myth that army eats up money that was to be used on food and education.
Your self made delusion..

I apologize we have got limitless money and oil and gas wells are working at their maximum capacity just happened to be our naughty kids are spoiled and they don't go to schools.
Have you ever been to rural schools where kids schools have got no roofs and in winter no heating? No wonder after having the most fertile lands we are importing food to feed the country? What percentage of people in Pakistan have got access to the clean water??? What portion of GDP Pakistan spend on the defence as compared to the other countries or our nearly 700K army is working for free ?? Bro change your reading glasses and go for a walk so you can think clearly.

 

[AlKardai]

Islamic approach is to use the right path from the beginning. Even if we have to choose between two evils, go for the least one.

What do you mean by this?

 

[TheSolution]

At this point, the army not respecting the Constitution should be seen as a given.
We can't do much about this, nor will they likely change from this tack
However, we can make the best out of a bad situation and potentially turn it into a good one if the populace stands by them, and if they put good civilian leaders in place to deal with the economic matters and to aid the army's companies where they fall short.

I feel that sometimes the constitution cannot be respected in unstable countries due to national security.

If it is done for the greater good in mind, then it is morally justified, in my opinion anyway

 

[AlKardai]

We need a thread along the lines of: "Is the Establishment truly a force for good?"

That clear a lot of things up, if we come to a proper conclusion