Kamikaze Pilot
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Please tell.
How many Western countries accept Chinese doctors?
- Thread starter Bharat Muslim
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Hack-Hook
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well let just say till the end of Iran and Iraq war the number of Iranian Doctors who were willing to work in underdeveloped areas were so little that we had to use foreign doctors in those areas and they were subject of many many less than satisfactory stories to the extent that today after more than 30 years ,the term of Indian Doctor is equal to a bad doctors.
SorryNotSorry
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average Chinese IQ is too high to practice medicine in the West. Low IQ Indian American baniye become doctors in the US.
Won’t suprised with that term..
For a country with abysmal education system , what kind of quality you expect?
Even their engineers not qualified as an real engineer
TruthTheOnlyDefense
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Here in Australia we have a lot of Indian doctors.
But they have to sit the Australian medical test first before they can practice.
They need to get retrained.
https://www.amc.org.au/assessment/pathways/standard/exams
But they have to sit the Australian medical test first before they can practice.
They need to get retrained.
https://www.amc.org.au/assessment/pathways/standard/exams
And Indian on average almost 10 years behind Chinese in life expectancy.
In this forum, I've heard about Indian choosing China as the most favorite destination to study medical. Am I wrong?
You have more IT workers in the US: Indian IT education is better than Chinese IT's
You have more CEO working for Western firms: Indian management skills is better than Chinese.
You have more construction workers in the Middle East: Indian construction workers are of better quality than Chinese.
Great logic of Indian. You gauge your capability by comparing who is the better slave to the West. Pathetic and delusional, as usual.
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kris
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First I am a doctor my self.
Second they won't fail international Medical graduates in their med schools- do u expect wonders from them?
Third if u can't believe how a Chinese degree is valued u can open any Arab countries health ministry website where the order of importance is given.
Overall standard of medical education in China is less than India. We have lot of made in China doctors here
seesonic
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Are India's medical schools broken?
Last December, Dilshad Chaudhry traveled with about 100 of his fellow villagers by bus to a local Indian medical-school hospital. They'd been told that foreign doctors were coming to tour the facility, and check-ups would be free.
There was nothing wrong with Chaudhry; he was accompanying his brother, who had a back problem. But "every person was told to lie in a bed even if they're not sick," he said. The 20-year-old electrician said he never saw any foreign physicians that day, but the hospital's Indian doctors kept checking that the phony patients were in bed. "They wanted to make sure no one escaped," he said.
That was the same month government inspectors visited the hospital, which is at Muzaffarnagar Medical College, 80 miles northeast of New Delhi. The inspectors checked, among other things, whether there were enough patients to provide students with adequate clinical experience. They determined there were.
But a year earlier, inspectors had found that most of the college hospital's outpatients "were fake and dummy and seems to be hired from nearby slum area," according to the official report. "In paediatric ward all children were admitted ... without any medical problem and were hired from nearby area!!!!!"
"I am not very keen to reply," said Dr. Anil Agarwal, the school's principal, when asked about the episode with Chaudhry.
India's system for training doctors is broken. It is plagued by rampant fraud and unprofessional teaching practices, exacerbating the public health challenge facing this fast-growing but still poor nation of about 1.25 billion people.
The ramifications spread beyond the country's borders: India is the world's largest exporter of doctors, with about 47,000 currently practicing in the United States and about 25,000 in the United Kingdom.
Schools and scandals
In a four-month investigation, Reuters has documented the full extent of the fraud in India's medical-education system. It found, among other things, that more than one out of every six of the country's 398 medical schools has been accused of cheating, according to Indian government records and court filings.
The Reuters probe also found that recruiting companies routinely provide medical colleges with doctors to pose as full-time faculty members to pass government inspections. To demonstrate that teaching hospitals have enough patients to provide students with clinical experience, colleges round up healthy people to pretend they are sick.
Government records show that since 2010, at least 69 Indian medical colleges and teaching hospitals have been accused of such transgressions or other significant failings, including rigging entrance exams or accepting bribes to admit students. Two dozen of the schools have been recommended for outright closure by the regulator.
Paying bribes – often in the guise of "donations" – to gain admission to Indian medical schools is widespread, according to India's health ministry, doctors and college officials.
"The next generation of doctors is being taught to cheat and deceive before they even enter the classroom," said Dr. Anand Rai. He exposed a massive cheating ring involving medical school entrance exams in the central Indian state of Madhya Pradesh in 2013. Rai was given police protection after he received death threats following the bust.
The poor state of India's medical education reflects a health system in crisis. The country has the highest rates of mortality from diarrhea, pneumonia and tuberculosis, creating pressure to train more physicians. Patients are regularly denied treatment at public hospitals that are so overcrowded, often the only way to see a doctor is to pay a bribe.
Read MoreDoctor shortages: Here's the real culprit
The causes of the crisis are manifold: Too few doctors. A government-backed surge in private medical schools which, to boost revenue, frequently charge under-the-table fees for admission. Outdated government regulations that, for example, require college libraries to keep paper copies of medical journals and penalize those that subscribe instead to online editions.
Charged with maintaining "excellence in medical education" is the Medical Council of India (MCI). But this government body is itself mired in controversy. Its prior president currently faces bribery allegations. The council is the subject of a mountain of lawsuits, many of them pitting it against medical schools challenging its findings. The cases often drag on for years.
"The best medical schools in India are absolutely world class," said David Gordon, president of the World Federation for Medical Education. But, he added, the Indian government's process of accrediting a "huge" number of recently opened, private medical schools "has at times been highly dubious."
India has been rocked by a series of recent medical scandals, including doctors accused of serious crimes. In November, a group of junior doctors at a medical college in the eastern city of Kolkata allegedly tied a suspected mobile phone thief to a pillar, slashed him with a razor and beat him to death with bamboo sticks, according to local police. Nine of the accused men remain in jail; they deny murder charges, say lawyers involved in the case. Three suspects remain at large.
The scalpel thrower
The system's problems are felt abroad, too. Tens of thousands of India's medical graduates practice overseas, particularly in the United States, Britain, Australia and Canada. All of these countries require additional training before graduates of Indian medical schools can practice, and the vast majority of the doctors have unblemished records.
But regulatory documents show that in both Britain and Australia, more graduates of Indian medical schools lost their right to practice medicine in the past five years than did doctors from any other foreign country.
In the United Kingdom, between 2008 and 2014, Indian-trained doctors were four times more likely to lose their right to practice than British-trained doctors, according to records of Britain's General Medical Council. (The U.S. and Canada lack publicly available centralized databases of disciplined doctors.)
The British cases include that of Dr. Tajeshwar Singh Aulakh, who received his medical degree in 1999 from Punjabi University in Patiala, India, according to Indian government records. He was assisting during a hip operation in 2008 in Shropshire, England, when he allegedly grabbed a scalpel, slashed the patient's stitches and threw it toward a nurse, according to British government records. The United Kingdom later struck him off its list of approved physicians. He could not be reached for comment.
The Australian cases include that of Dr. Suhail Durani, who graduated from an Indian government medical college in the northern city of Jammu in 2003. He was imprisoned in Perth for more than 18 months after being convicted in 2011 of sexually assaulting a female diabetic patient who had shown up in the emergency room with symptoms of a potentially serious illness.
In an interview, Durani maintained his innocence and described his medical training in India as excellent. He currently is not practicing medicine.
Dr. Ramesh Mehta, vice president of the Global Association of Physicians of Indian Origin, said there are "major problems" with some private Indian medical schools. But he added that a doctor's success depends as much on "personality and attitude" as on his or her college training.
Fake degrees
About 45 percent of the people in India who practice medicine have no formal training, according to the Indian Medical Association. These 700,000 unqualified doctors have been found practicing at some of India's biggest hospitals, giving diagnoses, prescribing medicines and even conducting surgery.
Balwant Rai Arora, a Delhi resident in his 90s, said in an interview that he issued more than 50,000 fake medical degrees from his home until his forgery ring was broken up by the police in 2011. Each buyer paid about $100 for a degree from fictitious colleges. Arora was twice convicted and jailed for forgery.
"There is a shortage of doctors in India. I am just helping people with some medical experience get jobs,'' said Arora. "I haven't done anything wrong."
India currently has about 840,000 doctors – or about seven physicians for every 10,000 people. That compares with about 25 in the United States and 32 in Europe, according to the World Health Organization.
The shortfall has persisted despite India having the most medical schools of any nation. That's because the size of graduating classes is small – typically 100 to 150 students.
Indeed, gaining admission to India's top medical schools is akin to winning the lottery. The All India Institute of Medical Sciences in New Delhi has been rated the best medical school in India Today magazine's past five annual surveys. According to the registrar's office, it takes in only 72 students for its undergraduate course each year out of about 80,000 to 90,000 who apply – an acceptance rate of less than one-tenth of one percent. As in the United Kingdom, most medical school students attend an undergraduate program.
Similarly, Christian Medical College, a top-ranked school in the southern city of Vellore, received 39,974 applications this year for 100 places, according to a school official – an acceptance rate of 0.25 percent. By contrast, the acceptance rate at Harvard Medical School for its entering class in 2014 was 3.5 percent.
Health ministry officials and doctors say India's medical-education system began to falter following a surge in new, private medical colleges that opened across the country during the past few decades, often in remote areas.
In 1980, there were 100 government-run medical schools and 11 private medical colleges. Thirty-five years later, the number of government medical colleges has nearly doubled. The number of private medical schools, meanwhile, has risen nearly twenty-fold, according to the Medical Council of India. There are now 183 government medical colleges and 215 private ones.
'Little better than quacks'
Many of the private colleges have been set up by businessmen and politicians who have no experience operating medical or educational institutions, said MCI officials. Sujatha Rao, who served as India's health secretary from 2009 to 2010, said the boom in private colleges was driven by a change in the law in the early 1990s to make it easier to open new schools because the government was struggling to find the money to build public medical schools.
"The market has been flooded with doctors so poorly trained they are little better than quacks," Rao told Reuters.
Not that a legitimate degree necessarily makes a difference.
A study in India published in 2012 compared doctors holding medical degrees with untrained practitioners. It found "no differences in the likelihood of providers' giving a diagnosis or providing the correct treatment." The study, funded by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, concluded that in India, "training in and of itself is not a guarantor of high quality."
Last year, an individual described as a "concerned" student at a rural government medical college in Ambajogai, in western India, posted a letter online with a litany of allegations about the school, Swami Ramanand Teerth Rural Medical College.
There were professors who existed only on paper, he alleged, and "no clinics and no lectures" for students in the medicine and surgery departments. Conditions were unsanitary at the hospital, and pigs and donkeys roamed the campus, he wrote. The writer also alleged that students had to pay bribes to pass exams.
Read MoreMedical school cures a midlife crisis
"We are not taught in this medical college," the letter stated. Students have graduated "without even attending a single day." The writer said the letter had been sent to various government agencies and health officials.
Records from the Medical Council of India, the body charged with maintaining the country's medical education standards, show that an inspection of the college this January found numerous deficiencies, including a shortage of faculty, residents and lecture theaters.
Dr. Nareshkumar S. Dhaniwala, who served as the principal of the college between 2011 and 2013, said "there is some truth in the letter." Animals, such as pigs and cows, do roam the campus, teachers and students don't turn up for lessons, and there is a scarcity of running water in the dormitories, he said. And before he joined, he said, he heard students had to pay to pass final exams.
"I found the students were not very interested in studying, they don't come to classes, they don't come to clinics," Dhaniwala said. "Medical education has gone downhill all over the country because the teachers are not as devoted as they used to be."
Sudhir Deshmukh, the college's current principal, did not respond to requests for comment.
The Medical Council of India, which was established by the government in 1934 and oversees medical education, has itself been swirling in controversy. Dr. Ketan Desai, the council's former president, faces criminal charges related to his arrest in 2010 for allegedly conspiring to receive a bribe to recommend authorizing a private medical college to accept more students. The case is still pending; Desai has denied the charges.
'Junk body'
In interviews, medical school officials complained that the MCI had onerous inspection requirements that were outdated and arbitrary.
"The Medical Council of India is a junk body," said Dr. A. K. Asthana, principal and dean of Subharti Medical College in the northern city of Meerut, which has been accused of demanding illegal fees for admission. Asthana denies the allegations. The council has tried – unsuccessfully so far – to close the school. "I'm totally frustrated with the MCI. Totally frustrated," he said.
Dr. Vedprakash Mishra, the head of MCI's academic committee, told Reuters that the agency has created "discipline and accountability" among medical colleges by imposing fines and, in several cases, prohibiting schools from admitting students for up to two years. "We don't compromise and mitigate on the requirements," he said.
Asked about allegations of corruption within MCI itself, Mishra abruptly ended the interview. "This is not what I want to be discussing," he said.
Under the government's current regulations, private medical colleges generally must have campuses on at least 20 acres of land. Because urban real estate in India is expensive, many schools open in rural areas where recruiting qualified, full-time doctors to teach is difficult because pay scales are low and living conditions are tough.
Interviews and MCI records show that some private colleges solve the problem by cheating – they recruit doctors to pose as full-time faculty members during government inspections. The physicians work there for just a few days or weeks. Two MCI officials estimated that there are several hundred Indian companies involved in recruiting them.
In October, a doctor in New Delhi received an email from a local company called Hi Impact Consultants with the subject line: "Urgent requirement of doctors for MCI Inspection in Ghaziabad"
The email offered up to 20,000 rupees a day (about $310) if the doctor appeared for an inspection at Saraswathi Institute of Medical Sciences in Hapur, east of New Delhi. The doctor, who requested anonymity, has no connection with the college.
"If interested please revert back ASAP," the email concluded. The sender described itself as "a Medical Executive Search firm."
In an interview, Sanjeev Priyadershi, Hi Impact's executive director, confirmed that the firm had tried to recruit doctors to appear during government inspections at medical colleges where they don't normally work.
"My client wanted to hire full-time faculty members for inspection purposes," he said.
Dr. Shailendra K. Vajpeyee, the principal of Saraswathi, said the college is constantly struggling to recruit qualified professors. Vajpeyee said he knew of Hi Impact Consultants, but denied he had employed them during his 18-month tenure.
"I don't know why that email was sent" by the company, he said. He declined to comment further about the matter.
'Biased' inspectors
At Muzaffarnagar Medical College, where electrician Dilshad Chaudhry was taken in December, students can read medical journals and books in a sprawling, circular library and take classes in clean and modern lecture halls.
But finding enough patients to provide students with clinical experience at rural, private teaching hospitals like Muzaffarnagar is a challenge. Many people in rural India simply can't afford the cost of treatment.
School principal Agarwal denied the allegations by MCI inspectors that the college's hospital had inflated its number of patients during a 2013 inspection. "Sometimes the inspectors are biased, that is for sure," he said. He also denied the hospital had ever recruited local villagers to pose as patients.
But Dr. Vaibhav Jain, a former student at the college, told Reuters that the hospital would conduct "free check-up camps," to lure rural villagers to the facility on inspection days. He said the hospital sometimes would promise free ultrasounds, but only a small number of people would be tested. Villagers often later complained about it to students at a clinic in Bilaspur where he worked, he said.
"We used to say we can't do anything, the machine was not working," he said.
Medical education is in trouble across India, said Jain. "The truth is that many medical students aren't prepared to be doctors when they finish" college. "And the result is the patient suffers."
https://www.cnbc.com/2015/06/16/why-indias-medical-schools-are-plagued-with-fraud.html
Indian fake doctor worked in NSW system for 11 years
Authorities are investigating how a man alleged to have stolen the identity of an Indian doctor was able to obtain Australian citizenship and work in the NSW hospital system for more than a decade without being caught.
Shyam Acharya is charged with falsely holding himself out as a medical practitioner — an offence that carries a fine of up to $30,000 — in this case as a doctor who worked in India many years ago, Sarang Chitale.
Mr Acharya is alleged to have used Dr Chitale’s identity and papers, as well as other fraudulent documents, to gain registration with the NSW Medical Board in 2003. Over the next decade, he worked in the Manly, Hornsby, Wyong and Gosford hospitals before ceasing employment — and his false medical registration — in 2014.
While Mr Acharya was employed as a junior doctor, requiring supervision, at least one case arose where his clinical competency was called into question. The details of that case were not
known last night but already have prompted legal action by the patient.
Mr Acharya’s current whereabouts is unclear. He appears to have sought to start a medical communications business in 2016 out of a Sydney premises, but its phones were not answered last night. Other attempts to contact him proved unsuccessful.
The Australian Health Practitioner Regulation Agency alerted NSW Health to the allegations in November last year and the case was mentioned in Sydney’s Downing Centre Local Court on Monday. It was made public only yesterday afternoon and it is not known how long authorities had suspicions.
“Investigations of the two relevant local health districts have found only one clinical incident where there were concerns about the adequacy of the treatment, although it is noted that Mr Acharya’s involvement was only as one of a number in the clinical team that treated the patient,” NSW Health said in a statement.
“The Medical Council of NSW and the Health Care Complaints Commission have advised they have received no complaints about Mr Acharya.”
As a consequence of the medical fraud investigation, the Australian Federal Police, Department of Immigration and Border Protection and Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade have now started investigating how Mr Acharya came to become an Australian citizen.
“The matters currently before the court do not deal with how he was able to enter and leave Australia or how he obtained Australian citizenship in the name of the other doctor,” NSW Health said in its statement.
An Immigration Department spokesman said last night citizenship fraud was “a serious matter with serious consequences” and the case was under investigation.
A spokeswoman for AHPRA, which is preparing further submissions for the court, gave no further information yesterday.
Mr Acharya was registered as a doctor the same year Indian-trained American surgeon Jayant Patel began working at Bundaberg Base Hospital. He worked throughout the Patel controversy and the subsequent tightening of regulations for overseas-trained doctors. While Patel trained as a doctor, he hid his past malpractice. He was accused of criminal offences as serious as murder but subsequent convictions for the unlawful killing of three patients, and grievous bodily harm to a fourth, were quashed. He pleaded guilty to two counts of dishonestly gaining registration and two related to dishonestly gaining employment in Queensland.
It was unclear last night whether Mr Acharya faces further charges, but NSW Health has appealed for any of his former patients who had concerns to contact the department.
“NSW Health’s recruitment processes have been strengthened since 2003,” the department said. “Since 2011, in addition to written references, direct verbal referee checks are required for all junior medical officers, including overseas-trained doctors — one from a current supervisor.”
Opposition health spokesman Walt Secord last night demanded the government contact all of Mr Acharya’s former patients and reveal what steps it had taken to ensure no other fake doctors were working in the system.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/health/indian-fake-doctor-worked-in-nsw-system-for-11-years/news-story/68d6b40a4aef1d5faae774133c79c64f
Tauren Paladin
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Blah blah blah, how do you know Chinese doctors have poorer quality? Did you pulled that from your peanut sized brain? Chinese doctors don't need to leave China for western countries for job opportunities when there are plenty at home. Only Indian doctors want to leave due to the scarcity of job opportunities at home.
Look at the University rankings, China has many universities in the top 200, if their medical schools suck and produce low quality graduates then they won't be there.
kris
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May be your bigger than thou brain stops thinking at that level.
Many Chinese doctors leave every year to USA for better life. Nothing new in it
Infact China has better surplus of doctors than India, which makes foreign nations better destiny for them.
China do have very good med schools- but you can't beat us in hard work. In the end your effort matters.
You can search for Indian doctors contribution in other nations.
Sadly these mighty brains flew for better pastures
nang2
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China is a developing country. Case closed.
kris
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You car mileage won't give as advertised ever as mileage depends on lots of factors. Similar life ezexpectan
Tauren Paladin
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Only according to you zzzzzzzzzz
