How many brahmos does India have and how we defend against this ?

[Khan vilatey]

Hi,
After, ahem a look (very quick) on the internet I was able to find weird claims on the operational numbers of Brhamos which is 14000 which is bit unrealistic as Pakistan has been producing baktar Shikan in Pakistan and have only been able to produce 30000+ in the same time period. The later is an ATGM with far less complex system. Hence the claim seems a bit grandiosity. My research led me to This article which I believe most people use to determine numbers


“the Russians or Indian military.

We can guestimate it though.

When the production was started in 2005, the news was that about 2000 would be made in 10 years. That should have been complete by now.

Now, the nation has added 2 more production lines bringing the capacity to 3 lines while increasing the indigenization levels. We can assume 3 times the capacity. This means the last 5 years we should have made another 3000 of new generation variants.

So a total of 4500 - 5500 would be a good estimate. Most of these would be land based variants. Only 20% of that might be naval variants.

In 2016 there was a news of ramping production to 100 missiles a month. By 2018 the third production line was added. So current production should be 150 - 200 missiles a month. That's 1800 - 2400 missiles a year. In 5 years that will translate to 9000 - 12000 missiles. That's the second most aggressive manufacturing in Indian defense second only to Pinaka MLRS at 5000 rockets a year since 2005. India must have produced over 80,000 rockets by now, but most of the initial rockets are either used or expired. Rocket propellant as well as warhead are primarily chemicals that means they come with an expiration date i.e a use by dd/mm/yyyy. Usually 8 - 10 years for open units like 80 mm rockets and MLRS rockets while those in casister like brahmos have 15 + years.

There was also news last year of “service life extension” for brahmos which means a test and replace of expired chemicals and batteries. Warhead I believe are also replaced.”

article 2:

It is difficult to give you number of Brahmos which are currently NOT Inducted - but i will give you the exact figure of the amount of Brahmos India and russia Intend to make, as well as the details and numbers of Brahmos currently inducted in Indian and Russian armed forces.

Before i present you the Statistics , let me give a brief introduction about Brahmos missiles.

The BrahMos is a short range ramjet supersonic cruise missile that can be launched from Submarine , ships , land or Aircraft. It is being developed by Russian Federations NPO Mashinostroeyenia & India’s Defense research & development Organisation(DRDO)

Russia and India have decided that they will be producing around 2000 Brahmos super sonic cruise missiles in next 10 years of which around 50% can be exported to strategic partners.

At this point Indian armed forces are the only ones where Brahmos has been inducted below are the required details.

1. Indian Navy (200 Brahmos - 100 live and 100 as back up inventory)

As of today ,Brahmos has been inducted in 12 warships of the Indian Navy.

A) Rajput-class destroyers -INS Rajput has four Brahmos missiles in 2 twin inclined launchers with in 2003. - (4 missiles ). INS Ranvir and INS Ranvijay were armed with one 8-cell Brahmos VLS launcher. - 16 missiles

B) Talwar-class frigate –The three later ships, INS Teg, INS Tarkash, INS Trikand were armed with one 8-cell Brahmos VLS launcher. - 24 missiles

C) Shivalik-class frigate –The three frigates in this class are armed with one 8-cell Brahmos VLS launcher. - 24 missiles

D) Kolkata-class destroyer (two active and one more under construction) –armed with two 8-cell Brahmos VLS launchers. - 16 missiles

E) Visakhapatnam-class destroyer (building)-Armed with two 8-cell Brahmos land attack and anti ship VLS launchers. - 16 missiles

2. Indian Army ( total of 288 Brahmos live plus 288 Back up inventory)

Indian Army has inducted 1 regiment of Brahmos Block 1 and 2 regiments of Brahmos Block 2& 1 very recent Brahmos Block 3, each regiment has 72 Brahmos Missiles

A) 861 Regiment (BrahMos Block I in Rajasthan) - 72 missiles

B) 862 Regiment (BrahMos Block II, in Rajasthan) - 72 missiles

C) 863 Regiment (BrahMos Block II, in Rajasthan) - 72 missiles

D) 864 Regiment (BrahMos Block III, in Arunachal Pradesh) - 72 missiles

Indian air force has not yet inducted any Brahmos variants , how ever it will very soon be inducting Air variant of the missile for its Super Sukhoi or Su-30 Mki

Russian Navy has intimated that due to the size and hull specifications of the BrahMos, they will not be able to accommodate Brahmos in any of its ships.

Russian Airforce too will soon induct Air version of Brahmos in its Su-30Sm fighter.

I hope my article helped you in some way , please do give me feedback and point my areas of improvement.

Regards,

Puneet

Founder - War-Wiki [1]

Footnotes

How many brahmos missiles are in stock in India? - Quora

not believing anything provided by Indian media I would say they produce about 300-600 missiles a year with a unit price of 5 million resulting in a cost of about 1.5-3 billion a year meaning spend 22.5 - 45 billion us $ with Russia taking 15- 30 billion of this cash lol.

so really they have around 6000 missiles.

My ask is

1)what do you think the number of missiles and delivery systems ?

my guess is 3000 operational with ships using about 400 of these only destroyers can carry these. Of the180 ( minus the 3 PAF shot down) results in 50 aircraft varying 3-4 in a sortie resulting in a need 400 again

and finally 8 Indian refiners with 72 missiles each resulting in about. 1400 missiles needed for multiple strikes

2) question how does Pakistan defend against these, as this will affect our ability to defend our fixed assets like airbase, ports and supply and repair depots

k

 

[The Maverick]

I heard India was planning to Induct 1500 over s decade .

I bet there must be between 1000 and 1500 today

 

[arjunk]

A cyber attack would cripple India completely. I believe that is what China plans. We should also develop such a capability. A Pakistani made the first computer virus. We can do it.

If the PAF can gain air superiority, quickly taking out Brahmos vehicles/stores should be easy. A properly executed,
larger scale version of Operation Chengiz Khan (1971) will devastate the IAF:

Moreover, they can then focus on attacking Indian ships (which carry Brahmos) along with PN instead of focusing on stopping the IAF.

In terms of detection, Brahmos is easier to defend against than stealthy missiles like Babur/Tomahawk. It is fast and generates a lot of heat around it. However, we do need a good early warning system in place as the time window for stopping this missile is short due to its speed. IMO we should get long range SAMs from China or something similar. If not long range, at least high end medium/short range ones around major cities and nuclear facilities.

We can use MRBMs in retaliation like we were about to last year when India was about to launch Brahmos strikes.

We could possibly use militant groups to pre emptively attack brahmos missiles, as India has tried with our military assets.

If all conventional methods fail we can always use Nasr.

 

[Suriya]

LO AYYA BRAHMOS.....
BrahMos Missile - World's Best Supersonic Cruise Missile In Action - YouTube

 

[nahtanbob]

A cyber attack would cripple India completely. I believe that is what China plans. We should also develop such a capability. A Pakistani made the first computer virus. We can do it.

If the PAF can gain air superiority, quickly taking out Brahmos vehicles/stores should be easy. A properly executed,
larger scale version of Operation Chengiz Khan (1971) will devastate the IAF:
View attachment 693787
Moreover, they can then focus on attacking Indian ships (which carry Brahmos) along with PN instead of focusing on stopping the IAF.

In terms of detection, Brahmos is easier to defend against than stealthy missiles like Babur/Tomahawk. It is fast and generates a lot of heat around it. However, we do need a good early warning system in place as the time window for stopping this missile is short due to its speed. IMO we should get long range SAMs from China or something similar. If not long range, at least high end medium/short range ones around major cities and nuclear facilities.

We can use MRBMs in retaliation like we were about to last year when India was about to launch Brahmos strikes.

We could possibly use militant groups to pre emptively attack brahmos missiles, as India has tried with our military assets.

If all conventional methods fail we can always use Nasr.

I would say 2000 is the upper end. I doubt India is producing too many because next generation of the missile is either lighter or longer in range which has its advantages

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

 

[Lincoln]

Hi,
After, ahem a look (very quick) on the internet I was able to find weird claims on the operational numbers of Brhamos which is 14000 which is bit unrealistic as Pakistan has been producing baktar Shikan in Pakistan and have only been able to produce 30000+ in the same time period. The later is an ATGM with far less complex system. Hence the claim seems a bit grandiosity. My research led me to This article which I believe most people use to determine numbers


“the Russians or Indian military.

We can guestimate it though.

When the production was started in 2005, the news was that about 2000 would be made in 10 years. That should have been complete by now.

Now, the nation has added 2 more production lines bringing the capacity to 3 lines while increasing the indigenization levels. We can assume 3 times the capacity. This means the last 5 years we should have made another 3000 of new generation variants.

So a total of 4500 - 5500 would be a good estimate. Most of these would be land based variants. Only 20% of that might be naval variants.

In 2016 there was a news of ramping production to 100 missiles a month. By 2018 the third production line was added. So current production should be 150 - 200 missiles a month. That's 1800 - 2400 missiles a year. In 5 years that will translate to 9000 - 12000 missiles. That's the second most aggressive manufacturing in Indian defense second only to Pinaka MLRS at 5000 rockets a year since 2005. India must have produced over 80,000 rockets by now, but most of the initial rockets are either used or expired. Rocket propellant as well as warhead are primarily chemicals that means they come with an expiration date i.e a use by dd/mm/yyyy. Usually 8 - 10 years for open units like 80 mm rockets and MLRS rockets while those in casister like brahmos have 15 + years.

There was also news last year of “service life extension” for brahmos which means a test and replace of expired chemicals and batteries. Warhead I believe are also replaced.”

article 2:

It is difficult to give you number of Brahmos which are currently NOT Inducted - but i will give you the exact figure of the amount of Brahmos India and russia Intend to make, as well as the details and numbers of Brahmos currently inducted in Indian and Russian armed forces.

Before i present you the Statistics , let me give a brief introduction about Brahmos missiles.

The BrahMos is a short range ramjet supersonic cruise missile that can be launched from Submarine , ships , land or Aircraft. It is being developed by Russian Federations NPO Mashinostroeyenia & India’s Defense research & development Organisation(DRDO)

Russia and India have decided that they will be producing around 2000 Brahmos super sonic cruise missiles in next 10 years of which around 50% can be exported to strategic partners.

At this point Indian armed forces are the only ones where Brahmos has been inducted below are the required details.

1. Indian Navy (200 Brahmos - 100 live and 100 as back up inventory)

As of today ,Brahmos has been inducted in 12 warships of the Indian Navy.

A) Rajput-class destroyers -INS Rajput has four Brahmos missiles in 2 twin inclined launchers with in 2003. - (4 missiles ). INS Ranvir and INS Ranvijay were armed with one 8-cell Brahmos VLS launcher. - 16 missiles

B) Talwar-class frigate –The three later ships, INS Teg, INS Tarkash, INS Trikand were armed with one 8-cell Brahmos VLS launcher. - 24 missiles

C) Shivalik-class frigate –The three frigates in this class are armed with one 8-cell Brahmos VLS launcher. - 24 missiles

D) Kolkata-class destroyer (two active and one more under construction) –armed with two 8-cell Brahmos VLS launchers. - 16 missiles

E) Visakhapatnam-class destroyer (building)-Armed with two 8-cell Brahmos land attack and anti ship VLS launchers. - 16 missiles

2. Indian Army ( total of 288 Brahmos live plus 288 Back up inventory)

Indian Army has inducted 1 regiment of Brahmos Block 1 and 2 regiments of Brahmos Block 2& 1 very recent Brahmos Block 3, each regiment has 72 Brahmos Missiles

A) 861 Regiment (BrahMos Block I in Rajasthan) - 72 missiles

B) 862 Regiment (BrahMos Block II, in Rajasthan) - 72 missiles

C) 863 Regiment (BrahMos Block II, in Rajasthan) - 72 missiles

D) 864 Regiment (BrahMos Block III, in Arunachal Pradesh) - 72 missiles

Indian air force has not yet inducted any Brahmos variants , how ever it will very soon be inducting Air variant of the missile for its Super Sukhoi or Su-30 Mki

Russian Navy has intimated that due to the size and hull specifications of the BrahMos, they will not be able to accommodate Brahmos in any of its ships.

Russian Airforce too will soon induct Air version of Brahmos in its Su-30Sm fighter.

I hope my article helped you in some way , please do give me feedback and point my areas of improvement.

Regards,

Puneet

Founder - War-Wiki [1]

Footnotes



not believing anything provided by Indian media I would say they produce about 300-600 missiles a year with a unit price of 5 million resulting in a cost of about 1.5-3 billion a year meaning spend 22.5 - 45 billion us $ with Russia taking 15- 30 billion of this cash lol.

so really they have around 6000 missiles.

My ask is

1)what do you think the number of missiles and delivery systems ?

my guess is 3000 operational with ships using about 400 of these only destroyers can carry these. Of the180 ( minus the 3 PAF shot down) results in 50 aircraft varying 3-4 in a sortie resulting in a need 400 again

and finally 8 Indian refiners with 72 missiles each resulting in about. 1400 missiles needed for multiple strikes

2) question how does Pakistan defend against these, as this will affect our ability to defend our fixed assets like airbase, ports and supply and repair depots

k

You can't stop a barrage of supersonic missiles.
But there are ways you can make the overall impact less, and difficult.

1. Pakistan needs a stronger navy, it needs to grow faster, and should be the military's top priority right now. The whole reason is Karachi, and its value. If the Navy can control further out in the waters comfortably without having to rely on the port city to keep itself at an advantageous position, Indian Navy wouldn't be able to get even a chance to launch Brahmos missiles at Karachi. And that means a non stop inflow and outflow of goods and money.

2. Need many early warning detection systems along the region of Upper Punjab and Kashmir border, because it's those borders along which most of our major cities are close to, including the Capital. We also need a stronger air defence system along there. Brahmos are not stealthy, but they're really fast, and each hit matters.

3. Also there should be an intelligence wing assigned to only, and only, monitor the border and areas close to border. Look out for deployments or possible missile depots.
And locations which are strategic, meaning where they can potentially deploy land launchers, should be pinpointed with artillery in place as a cautious measure.

4. Air Superiority, ofcourse, is needed, and this would require superior BVR platforms so that planes capable of carrying Brahmos are not safe for launching them from the other side of the border either.

That's all I can think of.

 

[Mrc]

Best way would jam /deceive the seeker. Its a non stealth missile. U always know exactly where it is.

Also shud have 5x more in our inventory which are stealth subsonic and nuclear capable

 

[nahtanbob]

You can't stop a barrage of supersonic missiles.
But there are ways you can make the overall impact less, and difficult.

1. Pakistan needs a stronger navy, it needs to grow faster, and should be the military's top priority right now. The whole reason is Karachi, and its value. If the Navy can control further out in the waters comfortably without having to rely on the port city to keep itself at an advantageous position, Indian Navy wouldn't be able to get even a chance to launch Brahmos missiles at Karachi. And that means a non stop inflow and outflow of goods and money.

2. Need many early warning detection systems along the region of Upper Punjab and Kashmir border, because it's those borders along which most of our major cities are close to, including the Capital. We also need a stronger air defence system along there. Brahmos are not stealthy, but they're really fast, and each hit matters.

3. Also there should be an intelligence wing assigned to only, and only, monitor the border and areas close to border. Look out for deployments or possible missile depots.
And locations which are strategic, meaning where they can potentially deploy land launchers, should be pinpointed with artillery in place as a cautious measure.

4. Air Superiority, ofcourse, is needed, and this would require superior BVR platforms so that planes capable of carrying Brahmos are not safe for launching them from the other side of the border either.

That's all I can think of.

Pakistan's fundamental problem is most of main population centers and other military targets are disportionately close to the Indian border. No amount of early warning is going to fix this issue

 

[Baibars_1260]

Pakistan's fundamental problem is most of main population centers and other military targets are disportionately close to the Indian border. No amount of early warning is going to fix this issue

There is no firm way of stopping these missiles even if they are detected. The two ways we could minimize the damage.
1. Sensitive targets (CCC and MRBM ) would need to be protected in blast proof shelters.
2. The CCC and missile assets must survive to deliver a massive retaliation in kind.
It's a kind of MAD ( Mutual Assured Destruction) doctrine followed during the Cold War.
But even if the missiles hit lightly protected targets like the 57 Tomahawk missiles attack on the Shayrat Air Base in Syria on April 7 2017 the airbase it is unclear how much damage actually is done.

Syrian and Russian propaganda outlets showed the base back in action within two hours, launching operational sorties, and mysteriously there were no further USN missile attacks. Russian propaganda claimed 75 missiles had been launched and 23 of the missiles had been jammed and deflected claiming that even the advanced JASSM missiles had been defeated. There was no official confirmation that JASSM missiles had been used and the USN claimed 75 + solid hits.

Post strike video footage from USN sources showed substantial damage to Shayrat but planes ( vintage Su 24s and Mig 21s ) were
also shown taxi-ing on the runway.

This attack is relevant because Pakistan could face exactly this type of one off "punishment " strikes.
Unlike Syria which was in no position to escalate or even feebly retaliate Pakistan will probably retaliate and go up the escalation ladder. The question is what happens next?

 

[Lincoln]

Pakistan's fundamental problem is most of main population centers and other military targets are disportionately close to the Indian border. No amount of early warning is going to fix this issue

That's why it's important for Pakistan to keep eyes on the bordering locations. Leave no space for missile deployments close to the border.

Anything deeper into India would be normal game.

 

[Khan vilatey]

I think some of the thinking is for Pakistan to get about 300 to 400 strike drones and use them for mission such as:

• Suppression off enemy air defence (SEAD)
• Close air support (cas)
• Anti artillery strikes
• Anti armor
• Anti ship
  

This would leave the air force for air superiority and air defence missions

k

 

[White and Green with M/S]

I think some of the thinking is for Pakistan to get about 300 to 400 strike drones and use them for mission such as:

• Suppression off enemy air defence (SEAD)
• Close air support (cas)
• Anti artillery strikes
• Anti armor
• Anti ship

This would leave the air force for air superiority and air defence missions

k

Drone can carry much less payloads and specific sensors than fully develop jet, so your point 1/2/5, its Airforce job drones could be complementary with CAS/SEAD/anti ship jets (SWARM TACTICS)

 

[Avatar]

I suppose the only viable means of countering a barrage of supersonic missiles is to have an extremely high tech laser defence system densely scattered across every potential pathway that missiles will follow. Such systems are probably in use by US, Russia and China to some extent but lacking in maturity and numbers to be really effective. I imagine the future of warfare to be a fully integrated suite of AI enabled drones of various kinds which are always in the air and on lookout for any potential threats, as well as a range of defensive systems such as SAMs, anti ballistic missile systems, defensive laser weapons, autonomous jammers and EW suites that will all work together to neutralize all threats instataneously as threats are identified. Even so a rapid barrage of supersonic missiles can overwhelm even the best of systems and many will go through and hit the target. However - such an attack will take place only in a doomsday like scenario when 2 nations are hell bent on eradicating each other, which has never happened before in Indo-Pak history and unlikely to happen in the future ..as consequences of such action will be nuclear warfare and planet earth will enter another ice age from the resultant changes in earths atmosphere.

 

[Baibars_1260]

Is there any open source intelligence on the Russian claim that the Tomahawk/JASSM attacks on Syria were partially stopped?
How about Russia's own Kalibre 3M54AE missile attacks in Syria?
Russia used air, submarines, and ship launched versions of this missile. The Kalibre maintains a maneuverable terrain hugging sub-sonic mode for most its flight path but goes supersonic and electronically passive mode in its terminal stage of its flight path to avoid being jammed or shot down by anti-missile defenses.
Russia has used these missiles against the Al Nusra front in Syria. Once again there are conflicting reports of its accuracy and immunity from CIWS, or Patriot SAM batteries. Though these missiles have been used at least 15 times since it first saw action in 2015 the largest number used was a total of 26 missiles fired from air and surface ships into Daesh positions around Aleppo on 7th October 2015. Russia revealed videos of the bombing but the US claimed that these video were fake not a single one of the 26 missiles fired found their targets. All either went astray or some that did reach the target zone were destroyed by the Al Nusra Front and Free Syrian Army ground based air defenses.
Don't know whom to believe.