How long does this Ummah last : Study

[Ultima Thule]

That is strange ... That has been my point of discussion from the beginning. Then what is the point you continuing this discussion? I suggest you start reading my post from the beginning of the thread. I have been consistent on the issue of my discussion. Ask the OP @StormBreaker


Please guide me to that sahih hadith.

I AM WORKING ON IT

 

[aliyusuf]

I AM WORKING ON IT

Thank you brother.

 

[Indos]

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @StormBreaker

Aristotels who is a teacher of Alexandre the Great also belief to have Monotheist belief. So Alexandre possibility to be Zulkarnaen on Quran is even bigger. And this is why he can easily accept Judaism when he interacted with Jew after conquering Jerusalem.

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Yes, Alexander, as in Alexander the Great, who conquered the Land of Israel, circa 329 B.C.E. According to the ancient Jewish historian Josephus, Alexander had great respect for the Jewish people. In one story recounted in Josephus’ Antiquities, Alexander had a mystical vision which informed him that all his victories only happened because the God of the Jews allowed them to happen.

https://www.jta.org/jewniverse/2012/alexander-the-jew

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Is Aristotle a monotheist?

It would seem so because

1. in Book 8 of Aristotle's Physics he proves the existence of a single Primary Mover or Unmoved Mover.
   
   
2. of his views on truth and contradiction, viz., that he believes in the law of non-contradiction. The Greek gods contradicted each other; therefore, it would seem Aristotle would not believe in the mythological Greek gods but in Absolute Truth.
   

From ancient times to the modern day, Aristotle has been interpreted as holding this view (Monotheism). For example, Lactantius, writing around the end of the third century wrote:

"Plato asserts His monarchy, saying that there is but one God, by whom the world was prepared and completed with wonderful order. Aristotle, his disciple, admits that there is one mind which presides over the world." Lactantius

After investigating this question extensively, Thomas Aquinas wrote:


"Aristotle’s conclusion is that there is one ruler of the whole universe, the first mover, and one first intelligible object, and one first good, whom above he called God (1074:C 2544), who is blessed for ever and ever." Aquinas

The words of Aristotle themselves also make it clear that his metaphysics involve a belief in the existence of a single God:

"However, we must discuss this question by beginning with what has already been laid down and established. For the first principle and primary being is both essentially and accidentally immovable, but it causes the primary motion, which is eternal and unique. And since that which is moved must be moved by something else, the first mover must be essentially immovable, and eternal motion must be caused by an eternal mover, and a single motion by a single thing." Aristotle

In fact, Aristotle's theory simply does not admit of the possibility of there being more than one God. This is the basis for which he argues that his theory can explain the dilemma of contraries, such as that held by Empedocles who believed that love and strife are eternal principles in conflict. Aristotle considered such a view absurd, and he believed he avoided this difficulty precisely because there is only one primary mover:

"And on all other views it follows necessarily that there must be something which is contrary to Wisdom or supreme knowledge, but on ours it does not. For there is no contrary to that which is primary,since all contraries involve matter, and that which has matter exists potentially; and the ignorance which is contrary to Wisdom would tend towards the contrary of the object of Wisdom; but that which is primary has no contrary." Aristotle, Met. 12.1075b

He goes on to argue that a coherent understanding of the universe requires a single governing principle. As you noted, Aristotle seems to hold absolute truth as a presupposition, and any coherent theory about reality can only be harmonized by a belief in one God:

"Further, in virtue of what the numbers, or soul and body, or in general the form and the object, are one, no one attempts to explain; nor is it possible to do so except on our theory, that it is the moving cause that makes them one. As for those who maintain that mathematical number is the primary reality, and so go on generating one substance after another and finding different principles for each one, they make the substance of the universe incoherent (for one substance in no way affects another by its existence or non-existence) and give us a great many governing principles. But the world must not be governed badly: The rule of many is not good; let one be the ruler." Aristotle, Met. 12.1075b-1076a

https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/questions/42569/is-aristotle-a-monotheist

 

[Ultima Thule]

Thank you brother.

@aliyusuf
HERE IT IS
The Prophet

said: “Allah Almighty will say on the Day of Resurrection, ‘O Adam!’ Adam will reply, ‘I am at Your service, and all good is in Your Hand.’ Allah will say, ‘Get up, and take out the people of the Hellfire from among your descendants.’ Adam will say, ‘O Allah, and who are the people of the Hellfire?’ Allah will say, ‘From every one thousand, take out nine-hundred-and-ninety-nine to the Fire and one to Paradise.’ Thereupon, children will become hoary-headed, every pregnant female will have a miscarriage, and one will see mankind as drunken, yet they will not be drunken but dreadful will be the Wrath of Allah.' This was hard on them (the Companions of the Prophet

), so they asked, 'O Messenger of Allah! Which one of us is that one (who will be taken to Paradise)?' He

said, 'Rejoice, for it is one from you and one thousand from Gog and Magog.'

FROM QURAAN
Allah has mentioned in the Quran that the barrier raised by Dhul-Qarnayn (a righteous and powerful man) prevents them from getting out. If they get out, they will destroy crops, cattle and progeny.

Allah Says (what means): {Until, when he reached [a pass] between two mountains, he found beside them a people who could hardly understand [his] speech. They said, “O Dhul-Qarnayn, indeed Gog and Magog are [great] corrupters in the land. So may we assign for you an expenditure that you might make between us and them a barrier?” He said, “That in which my Lord has established me is better [than what you offer], but assist me with strength; I will make between you and them a dam. Bring me sheets of iron” - until, when he had leveled [them] between the two mountain walls, he said, “Blow [with bellows],” until when he had made it [like] fire, he said, “Bring me, that I may pour over it molten copper.” So Gog and Magog were unable to pass over it, nor were they able [to effect] in it any penetration.
https://www.islamweb.net/en/fatwa/81773/yajuj-and-majuj-gog-and-magog

 

[aliyusuf]

@aliyusuf
HERE IT IS
The Prophet

said: “Allah Almighty will say on the Day of Resurrection, ‘O Adam!’ Adam will reply, ‘I am at Your service, and all good is in Your Hand.’ Allah will say, ‘Get up, and take out the people of the Hellfire from among your descendants.’ Adam will say, ‘O Allah, and who are the people of the Hellfire?’ Allah will say, ‘From every one thousand, take out nine-hundred-and-ninety-nine to the Fire and one to Paradise.’ Thereupon, children will become hoary-headed, every pregnant female will have a miscarriage, and one will see mankind as drunken, yet they will not be drunken but dreadful will be the Wrath of Allah.' This was hard on them (the Companions of the Prophet

), so they asked, 'O Messenger of Allah! Which one of us is that one (who will be taken to Paradise)?' He

said, 'Rejoice, for it is one from you and one thousand from Gog and Magog.'

FROM QURAAN
Allah has mentioned in the Quran that the barrier raised by Dhul-Qarnayn (a righteous and powerful man) prevents them from getting out. If they get out, they will destroy crops, cattle and progeny.

Allah Says (what means): {Until, when he reached [a pass] between two mountains, he found beside them a people who could hardly understand [his] speech. They said, “O Dhul-Qarnayn, indeed Gog and Magog are [great] corrupters in the land. So may we assign for you an expenditure that you might make between us and them a barrier?” He said, “That in which my Lord has established me is better [than what you offer], but assist me with strength; I will make between you and them a dam. Bring me sheets of iron” - until, when he had leveled [them] between the two mountain walls, he said, “Blow [with bellows],” until when he had made it [like] fire, he said, “Bring me, that I may pour over it molten copper.” So Gog and Magog were unable to pass over it, nor were they able [to effect] in it any penetration.
https://www.islamweb.net/en/fatwa/81773/yajuj-and-majuj-gog-and-magog

Thank you brother.
Can you share the Hadith Source, volume, and hadith number?
Similarly can you share the Surah and Ayat number?
Then let me ponder on this first.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Thank you brother.
Can you share the Hadith Source, volume, and hadith number?
Similarly can you share the Surah and Ayat number?
Then let me ponder on this first.

I THINK ITS IN SURAH-E- KHAIF DIDN'T KNOW THE AYAT NUMBER
@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan BRO CAN YOU HELP ME TO GIVE THE SOURCES / VOLUME AND HADITH NUMBER FOR @aliyusuf

 

[StormBreaker]

Maybe some part of the Himalayan mountain have some gap that can easily be used by a cavaleri (horse) to sneak to the other part of the mountain. As we know Alexandre is maybe Zulkarnaen if we see Jews ancient historian. The other part of Himalayan is shared by Mongol/Chinese ethnic.

The wall itself will be some day collapse as stated by Zulkarnaen and in Quran this has been said:

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 18 Surah Kahf verses 94-97:

94 They said: "O Zul-qarnain! the Gog and Magog (people) do great mischief on earth: shall we then render thee tribute in order that thou mightest erect a barrier between us and them?"

95 He said: "(The power) in which my Lord has established me is better (than tribute): help me therefore with strength (and labor): I will erect a strong barrier between you and them:

96 "Bring me blocks of iron." At length when he had filled up the space between the two steep mountain sides he said "Blow (with your bellows)." Then when he had made it (red) as fire he said: "Bring me that I may pour over it molten lead."

97 Thus were they made powerless to scale it or to dig through it.

98. [Dhul-Qarnayn] said, "This is a mercy from my Lord; but when the promise of my Lord comes, He will make it level, and ever is the promise of my Lord true."

Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 21 Surah Anbiyaa verses 96-97:

96 Until the Gog and Magog (people) are let through (their barrier) and they swiftly swarm from every hill.

97 Then will the True Promise draw nigh (of fulfillment): then behold! the eyes of the Unbelievers will fixedly stare in horror: "Ah! woe to us! we were indeed heedless of this; nay we truly did wrong!"

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My interpretation

As Mongol cavalery can get trough it after the wall collapse (and become level/flat), then almost whole world get raid and attack, even until Japan, Vietnamese, Java (Indonesia) but the most damaged was experienced by Arab/Middle Eastern as they are the group of people who are God spoke to through prophet Muhammad in Quran.

Caucasian Mountain range, Russia
Allah may be put some kind of invisible barrier, so human can't detect them even with latest technologies/satellites, anything is possible, what about your opinion about Jins???


No most probably in Caucasian mountain range in Russia

so you mean, Allah can't hide any tribes of Yajooj and Majooj from humans, Allah created whole universe, and what your opinions about Jins and other invisible creatures, and are you denying ayat of Qura'an and explanations of Hadiths

LOL man, I have explained in many of my previous posts that Yajud and Majud is actually Mongol tribe who are very famous in raiding established ancient community/nations, which is also feared by Chinese, that is why they also made a wall to prevent them to attack China. Mongol used horses massively in raiding, so wall is very effective to prevent them attacking a nation in full force.

You can see on my previous post that Zulkarnaen has said that the wall someday will be collapsed and other Quran verse stated the time where the wall collapse and Yajod and Majood will pass the barrier and the people will see their arrival as Azab (punishment) from God.

As we know Mongol make many destruction to the Middle East, and particularly the Arab where Quran itself is first delivered to Arab people.

Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 21 Surah Anbiyaa verses 96-97:

96 Until the Gog and Magog (people) are let through (their barrier) and they swiftly swarm from every hill.

97 Then will the True Promise draw nigh (of fulfillment): then behold! the eyes of the Unbelievers will fixedly stare in horror: "Ah! woe to us! we were indeed heedless of this; nay we truly did wrong!"

As I previously stated that possibility of Alexandre the Great is Zulkarnaen is strong as he went to Jerusalem and defeat Jews without force and has been said by ancient Jew historian that he believe God of Jew (Allah) that bring his victory. So he may convert to Monoteism when interacted with Jew although the possibility for him to already follow Monoteism when he was still in Greek is also exist as some ancient Greek also worship one God as well as new founding reveal on Greek ancient temple.

I said the wall is between Mountain gap in Himalayan because Alexandre have come to Afghan/Pakistan as well and in the other side of Himalayan is the world of Mongol/Chinese. It is the possible location where local people ask him to make a wall on the Mountain gap that is usually used by Yajud and Majud people to pass through the mountain and raid them. As I said ancient cavalery with horse will be difficult to pass mountain if there is no easy pass

@seven0seven Brother,@aliyusuf was suggesting that yajoj majoj could have been abolished to some other dimension, away from the human eye, Remember when Hazrat Umar RA saw the Green wall, He described it back in Madinah, but when they visited it back, it was not to be seen.

So different dimensions are in play here, just like Jinn are from different dimensions,

Probably The Beast would also be from a different dimension or probably not as well, The Beast is what interests me the most out of all the predictions, Dragon straight outta myths but The Beast would be real.

Remember, 6 pillars of faith includes Belief in the unseen, A true muslim should just believe in what he can’t see but exists in The Book.

@Indos Zul Qarnain isn’t yet declared to be Alexander, Alexander had a very short life, Zul Qarnain lived around 700 years.

Two other strong contenders are Cyrus and Darius.

I THINK ITS IN SURAH-E- KHAIF DIDN'T KNOW THE AYAT NUMBER
@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan BRO CAN YOU HELP ME TO GIVE THE SOURCES / VOLUME AND HADITH NUMBER FOR @aliyusuf

It is Surah Kahf indeed

 

[Yaseen1]

looking at disorder and present condition it seems that this world will survive at maximum of 150 to 200yrs as environmental conditions are becoming adverse and weather have changed ,in addition various big signs of end of times are becoming more evident

 

[Ultima Thule]

looking at disorder and present condition it seems that this world will survive at maximum of 150 to 200yrs as environmental conditions are becoming adverse and weather have changed ,in addition various big signs of end of times are becoming more evident

No one knows when Qiyamt is coming, whether its 150-200 or thousand of years away only Allah knows

 

[Indos]

Caucasian Mountain range, Russia
Allah may be put some kind of invisible barrier, so human can't detect them even with latest technologies/satellites, anything is possible, what about your opinion about Jins???

I believe the barrier is visible as Quran said it was made from iron and the process of making the wall is recorded in Quran which is a process of making a steel.

Yajud and Majud is clearly a group of human/people as stated by Quran.

94 They said: "O Zul-qarnain! the Gog and Magog (people) do great mischief on earth: shall we then render thee tribute in order that thou mightest erect a barrier between us and them?"

95 He said: "(The power) in which my Lord has established me is better (than tribute): help me therefore with strength (and labor): I will erect a strong barrier between you and them:

About Caucasian mountain (Russia), I dont know whether Alexandre has been gone there (I have belief that he is Dzulkarnaen).

The verses that was talking about Yajud and Majud when it is said in Quran they will pass the barrier seems to talk about future event from prophet Muhammad time. And there is a disaster as well that accompany their arrival which is stated in the next verse. So from the time of prophet Muhammad until now, it seems there is only one time where Middle East have been badly raid which was through Mongol invasion.

The other possibility is Germanic tribe though who are now conquering many part of Europe, America, Australia, South Africa, and New Zealand where in the past they even conquer almost all lands including my nation. But Mongol invasion is more sadistic that IMO is more fit with the narration of Yajud and Majud recorded in Quran in which illustrate that the people see their arrival as Azab (punishment) from God.

Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 21 Surah Anbiyaa verses 96-97:

96 Until the Gog and Magog (people) are let through (their barrier) and they swiftly swarm from every hill.

97 Then will the True Promise draw nigh (of fulfillment): then behold! the eyes of the Unbelievers will fixedly stare in horror: "Ah! woe to us! we were indeed heedless of this; nay we truly did wrong!"

@Indos Zul Qarnain isn’t yet declared to be Alexander, Alexander had a very short life, Zul Qarnain lived around 700 years.

Two other strong contenders are Cyrus and Darius.

Alquran never said how long Zulkarnaen has lived, so can you please provide any hadith saying that he live 700 hundreds years ?

 

[Yaseen1]

i agree with that and only provide approx estimation and not certain timing as no one knows about certainty of timing of qayammat and its specific time but signs of end of times and rate of change in circumstances have become much faster as compared to past which shows that time is near

No one knows when Qiyamt is coming, whether its 150-200 or thousand of years away only Allah knows

 

[StormBreaker]

I believe the barrier is visible as Quran said it was made from iron and the process of making the wall is recorded in Quran which is a process of making a steel.

Yajud and Majud is clearly a group of human/people as stated by Quran.

94 They said: "O Zul-qarnain! the Gog and Magog (people) do great mischief on earth: shall we then render thee tribute in order that thou mightest erect a barrier between us and them?"

95 He said: "(The power) in which my Lord has established me is better (than tribute): help me therefore with strength (and labor): I will erect a strong barrier between you and them:

About Caucasian mountain (Russia), I dont know whether Alexandre has been gone there (I have belief that he is Dzulkarnaen).

The verses that was talking about Yajud and Majud when it is said in Quran they will pass the barrier seems to talk about future event from prophet Muhammad time. And there is a disaster as well that accompany their arrival which is stated in the next verse. So from the time of prophet Muhammad until now, it seems there is only one time where Middle East have been badly raid which was through Mongol invasion.

The other possibility is Germanic tribe though who are now conquering many part of Europe, America, Australia, South Africa, and New Zealand where in the past they even conquer almost all lands including my nation. But Mongol invasion is more sadistic that IMO is more fit with the narration of Yajud and Majud recorded in Quran in which illustrate that the people see their arrival as Azab (punishment) from God.

Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 21 Surah Anbiyaa verses 96-97:

96 Until the Gog and Magog (people) are let through (their barrier) and they swiftly swarm from every hill.

97 Then will the True Promise draw nigh (of fulfillment): then behold! the eyes of the Unbelievers will fixedly stare in horror: "Ah! woe to us! we were indeed heedless of this; nay we truly did wrong!"

That was a valuable addition to the talk.

Now that you have mentioned of Iron wall, Here is one more thing.

In the world of Dark arts, It is possible to hide an existing physical thing/being from plain sight.

Now we are talking about dimensions, Allah said in the Quran that there is a barrier.

Remember, Quran is an extremely amazing poetry of God Himself, He mentions things straight yet cyphered. The barrier here mentioned in Surah Anbiya might be talking about Dimensions and Unseen world while the Wall Built in Surah Kahf refers to the actual enclosure.

Take these two as different things, first you close them behind a wall, Then Allah sets a Barrier to the human eye.

Until the Gog and Magog (people) are let through (their barrier) and they swiftly swarm from every hill.

 

[Ultima Thule]

I believe the barrier is visible as Quran said it was made from iron and the process of making the wall is recorded in Quran which is a process of making a steel.

bro wall and tribes of yajooj and majooj is hided by Allah, and you're wrong about Alexander the great was ZULQURNAIN, HE ONLY CONQUERED EAST AND QURAAN VERY CLEARLY SAID ZULQARNAIN CONQUERER OF EAST AND WEST, NO ONE CAN CONFIM/OR KNOWS WHO IS ZULQARNAIN

 

[Longhorn]

O PaaJee,

@Mentee is preparing our Hukka .... so might pop in when he is done... good lad OurMentee is!

Mangus

Aap ne @Mentee sahib ko apna kammi samj rakha hai kya?

 

[Ultima Thule]

i agree with that and only provide approx estimation and not certain timing as no one knows about certainty of timing of qayammat and its specific time but signs of end of times and rate of change in circumstances have become much faster as compared to past which shows that time is near

NA, its suppose to be near in your point of view but may be hundreds of years from if not thousand of years from now, we don't know when big event and situation will start, like arrival of imam medhi, arrival of messiah, spreading of yajooj and majooj/ arrival of dajjal, are these events within can occur within few year or few hundred years if not few thousand of year from now, nobody knows