How LETHAL is PAF J-10C Vigorous Dragon? The Game Changer for Pakistan Air Force...by Sqn Ldr (R) Fahad Masood, a former PAF mirage specialist.

[Signalian]

aggressors will stay with F16 variants in CCS. J10 wont unless we get J10D/E/F of future....the least no in CCS for any a/c type is 6.

BTW 16/16+ sqn strength isnt hard n fast rule for high end a/c. Point still stands. Another example, check the strength of Nauman Akram Shaheed's f16 sqn.

And J10 is a HIGH END FIGHTER! its now the PAF's high end and best fighter, F16 is dethroned.

haha u might want to follow the PAF affiliated twitter public accounts to truly gauge the mood in PAF abt j10c and her impact on PAF's psyche. For whom F16 used to be the hallmark of excellence before 2020 shaheen exe when PLAAF allowed for the first time unrestricted use in these exe. For the first time PAF SAW what truly is a 4.5++ is, and how the real n true 5th gen technology that it carries of J20 are! That a/c backed up by unrestricted PLAAF jammer/EW aircrafts, Their latest AWACS that they brought for these exe. etc Had really raped PAF no matter what they threw at them they had an answer for it. They truly made PAF felt helpless and beaten them constantly as if u tide a person then starting yr barrage of laatain mukkay on him. As much as helpless he feels, thats how helpless PAF felt infront of them. And According to windjammer, these exercises almost gave somebody in PAF high command a heart attack back in december 2020. Now thats whats happening amongst the regular PAF pilots too specially amongst F16 sqns.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1550161378106904576

My God man! i still cant forgive myself of how wrong i was abt the analysis of @MastanKhan all these years. And whatever Mastan Sahab used to say, is now proving right one by one. He and @Khafee both were right abt J10C.

Relax, PAF also had 3 x F-16 squadrons in past from the initial batch of 40 aircrafts although a few were lost by then.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Relax, PAF also had 3 x F-16 squadrons in past from the initial batch of 40 aircrafts although a few were lost by then.

beshak! but what im saying, heed to that, as its the latest stuff and mood in PAF. Now with J10 coming with dorsal spines. And if that really is for PAF as Chinese internet is claiming, then ye to thjori bohot izzat F16 ki baki ha na, ye b jany wali ha!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1550141933519093760

waisy ye phir dekhain, Song barra classy ha. Pta ha to btain kissne gaya ha ye?

Waisy masla sqn strength ka nai ha......PAF's high end sqn usually have been under equipped historically. eg Starfighters and so on.

Now however since J10 is becoming the new frontline jet, so those old f16 sqn will be equipped to their strength of 16+. One them them may get j10 probably while its old f16s maybe dispersed to strengthen older f16 sqns(i presume).

Lets see, but aik cheez apne zehen main betha lain, if f16 dont get their due updates, this decade will be most likely be their last as they may start getting replaced by Project Azm/or other foreign interim 5th gen fighter in 2030s along with old jf17 Block 1/2 sqns. Since threat environment in south asia is fast changing.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

PL-15 and PL-15E are very different. This is what needs to be determined most.

already is using pl15. my post#16......i proved that with pics. of real PL15 undergoing trials in jf17 blk 2s back in march 2019. Atleast 2 years BEFORE PL15E was announced in 2021 i think.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Just chiming in a bit about PL-15 that PAF is using. We are aware the PL-15E has a range of 145km, but that's the export model shown at Zhuhai airshow. Pakistan generally utilizes the same models as PLAAF with slight modifications, rather than the dumbed down export versions. During the Kargil Conflict, PAF had the option to directly pull from PLAAF inventory should it needed additional planes. That's not just some friendly gesture, but indications that PAF pilots were already well familiar with operating Chinese planes and weapon systems. Without some degree of interoperability, pilots can't jump into a random plane and expect to perform in combat.

Going by that bit of tradition, Pakistan is likely using China's domestic version of PL-15 with over 180km range.

Pak's armed forces have officer exchange programs with PLA. Meaning Airforce, Navy and Army officers r exchanged b/w Pak armed forces and China Armed Forces(PLA). thats done besides regular exercises, Military Staff courses etc etc
Its going on since 80s or 90s i think, but im not sure how long this has been going on. Meaning PLA officers serve in Pak Armed forces for sometime as well as Pakistan's in PLA. Thats how we learn from eachother experiences as well as ensure interoperability. Thats why u see PAF pilots flying in PLAAF's Su30MKK sqns. This Current PAF Chief was one of those pilots.

That mastermind of our operation swift retort in 2019 against IAF. Air Marshall Haseeb Paracha also had served in PLAAF during his carrier, He was a highly respect fellow amongst PLAAF.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1551818271934058496

eek letter ki maar hey yeh lethal phetal J10ABCD

not going to happen bro. America has failed to secure IMF loan for Pak. It has again proven itself what Pakistan has always believed, an unreliable partner.
Things have failed on that front!

 

[MastanKhan]

My God man! i still cant forgive myself of how wrong i was abt the analysis of @MastanKhan all these years. And whatever Mastan Sahab used to say, is now proving right one by one. He and @Khafee both were right abt J10C.

Now this fact is coming on the surface right in public view.

Hi,

Thank you for the post.

PAF did not have access to the material that I had. So, I don't blame them for that.

The real problem was---that they did not listen either---.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Hi,

Thank you.

PAF did not have access to the material that I had. So, I don't blame them for that.

The real problem was---that they did not listen either---and their power of observation and ANALYSIS was extremely weak---so weak that you could call it PREJUDICIAL ( when that happens, you stop listening to what is being told and stop seeing what is being shown ).(I don't lick my spit type of mentality is very dangerous).

So---again---here were my 4 projections for pak military

1. JH7A's---supposedly did not happen

2. submarines---did happen ( almost ready )

3. Type 054's---did happen

4. J10's---did happen

To our foreign member---Son you don't know sh-it.

jh7B is out of production thats why.....it no longer even participates in shaheen exes.

 

[SQ8]

A bit of leeway from the video OP but it’s understandable due to his sources and former service. The J-10C is a lethal machine but the key focus is integration of weapons specifically for A2G standoff for some cases.

Oddly enough - seems the thread is going again the way of F-16 vs J-10 even though the two aircraft came with a different requirements and onboarding process focus.

One was the PAF need to maintain local air superiority regardless of what India purchased while the other was to keep that capability across the entire force.

The only true “revelation” is that Pakistan operates the PL-15E but that it is not a dumbed down version.

 

[Raider 21]

Hi,

Thank you for the post.

PAF did not have access to the material that I had. So, I don't blame them for that.

The real problem was---that they did not listen either---.

Did you try calling them or sending them an email. Though they do ignore those most of the time.....

 

[iLION12345_1]

with respect, its conformed by a pilot who himself is a mirage pilot and mirage pilots r flying j10s in PAF. AND WITH RESPECT AS WELL, his own home sqn no 15 cobras is being reequipped with j10s.

So he knows very well what he is talking abt. And his specific words were PL 15 has a range of 200+ that ''+'' is the key word here be it really 250 or 300 as USAF believes. Whatever the case it out ranges METEOR which is what we want.

and PAF has PL15 from PLAAF stock (since early march 2019 atleast, much before PL15E were revealed) NOT PL15E who have 145 km range.

No it cannot. You do not have a basic understanding of how Missile ranges work. The same missile can have both a 100KM range and a 200KM range depending on Literally nearly two dozen factors. Please, for the love of god, stop talking about missile ranges like concrete numbers, it is possibly the utmost stupidest way to measure their capability, especially with how many other things go into making a good missile.

The PL-15 cannot, will not and should not be able to reach 250KM under the most ideal of conditions, but it does not have to. If it can reach even a 145 KM range under average conditions, it is one of the best missiles in service already.

I also highly doubt there is any major range difference in Chinese export and Local use missiles. Literally changing a missiles range by 100KM is not a simple task, the tiniest weight imbalance changes the entire behavior of a missile. You simply do not take that much range off without a costly redesign that I am 100% sure China did not do. There are probably some minor downgrades, but I doubt range and lethality have anything to do with it.

I don’t know where all these stupid claims came from of absurd ranges And why people on this forum cannot leave them alone.

yup, for the first time i agree with wikipedia information.

View attachment 866764
PL15 spotted on JF-17 Block 2 under trials in the skies of Pakistan. Earlier PAF has received it's first consignment of 100 PL15 missiles from China for integration on it's existing fleet of Thunders.
This pic was shared on march 14 2019 by ACE OF PAF's FB page.

https://www.facebook.com/ACEofPAF/photos/a.710120069095290/2041290365978247

If u guys dont know ACE OF PAF is a page ran by 2 serving F16 pilots of PAF, They were the first ones back in 2019 as well who revealed the specs of JF17C Block III in their page's utube account. Before them sharing its details, jf17C Block III was all speculation.

Here is a Photo they shared abt themselves(obviously blurring their faces) with their F16BM.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRzh3wgnYv9J3TSPJqXiFUg/community?lb=UgyBO_MbEh_msU3dMIJ4AaABCQ

There was no such thing as PL15E with 145km range back then. PL15E was revealed in 2021 if im not wrong, 2 years AFTER existence of pl15 in PAF's service.

@bilal read this post, and carefully.


12 most likely.

That photo is fake. It’s a photoshop. I mean no offense but if I was you I’d delete every single post you’ve made in this thread so far.

PL-15 and PL-15E are very different. This is what needs to be determined most.

I highly doubt they are.

A bit of leeway from the video OP but it’s understandable due to his sources and former service. The J-10C is a lethal machine but the key focus is integration of weapons specifically for A2G standoff for some cases.

Oddly enough - seems the thread is going again the way of F-16 vs J-10 even though the two aircraft came with a different requirements and onboarding process focus.

One was the PAF need to maintain local air superiority regardless of what India purchased while the other was to keep that capability across the entire force.

The only true “revelation” is that Pakistan operates the PL-15E but that it is not a dumbed down version.

The last line is what I’ve been repeating for quite a while. Chinese export versions are NOT major downgrades. They have never been. It makes absolutely no sense to downgrade a system to that degree just for export to such select nations. If the PL-15 can accurately and regularly achieve just what the claimed performance figures are for the PL-15E, it is already one of the best BVR missiles in service right now. It’s not that the PL-15Es claimed figures are bad, it’s that the PL-15 (Local versions) figures are so absurdly overrated and faked that it makes the PL-15Es claimed figures look bad in comparison. I remember explaining about half the factors that effect a missiles range once on another thread (when PL-15Es “range” was revealed), it seems people have not caught on. Unfortunately we are still comparing missiles the wrong way.

 

[iLION12345_1]

looking from the size of PL15, JF17 might be able to carry 4 Max...

Two with the current engine. Four with dual racks maybe, but that will depend on how it effects it’s flight performance.

Just chiming in a bit about PL-15 that PAF is using. We are aware the PL-15E has a range of 145km, but that's the export model shown at Zhuhai airshow. Pakistan generally utilizes the same models as PLAAF with slight modifications, rather than the dumbed down export versions. During the Kargil Conflict, PAF had the option to directly pull from PLAAF inventory should it needed additional planes. That's not just some friendly gesture, but indications that PAF pilots were already well familiar with operating Chinese planes and weapon systems. Without some degree of interoperability, pilots can't jump into a random plane and expect to perform in combat.

Going by that bit of tradition, Pakistan is likely using China's domestic version of PL-15 with over 180km range.

Pakistan has many precedents of using PLA equipment of the same level instead of the export version.
I also think PAF will use PL-15 instead of PL-15E.

I simply doubt China downgrades it’s export variants that much in general, it makes little technical and economic sense, especially for things being sold to such few countries. But your points are still valid. Pakistan has, and does, get special access to Chinese stocks of weaponry when and if needed, this benefits China just as much, because the target is india.

"The missile features an active electronically scanned array radar seeker,[7] and has an alleged range exceeding 200 km – comparable to that of the Russian R-37 missile. The composite guidance system supports mid-course datalink led by AEW&C aircraft and autonomous terminal guidance.[4] It's measured between 3.8 to 4 meters long and incorporates a dual-thrust solid-fuel rocket motor,[3][4] capable of a speed of Mach 4.[5]

In Zhuhai air show 2021, China unveiled an export variant of PL-15 named PL-15E with a maximum range of 145km. The export version reportedly has less range than the parent version, similar to the situation between SD-10 and its domestic counterpart PL-12."

Wikipedia is the worst source for military information.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

No it cannot. You do not have a basic understanding of how Missile ranges work. The same missile can have both a 100KM range and a 200KM range depending on Literally nearly two dozen factors. Please, for the love of god, stop talking about missile ranges like concrete numbers, it is possibly the utmost stupidest way to measure their capability, especially with how many other things go into making a good missile.

The PL-15 cannot, will not and should not be able to reach 250KM under the most ideal of conditions, but it does not have to. If it can reach even a 145 KM range under average conditions, it is one of the best missiles in service already.

I also highly doubt there is any major range difference in Chinese export and Local use missiles. Literally changing a missiles range by 100KM is not a simple task, the tiniest weight imbalance changes the entire behavior of a missile. You simply do not take that much range off without a costly redesign that I am 100% sure China did not do. There are probably some minor downgrades, but I doubt range and lethality have anything to do with it.

I don’t know where all these stupid claims came from of absurd ranges And why people on this forum cannot leave them alone.


That photo is fake. It’s a photoshop. I mean no offense but if I was you I’d delete every single post you’ve made in this thread so far.


I highly doubt they are.


The last line is what I’ve been repeating for quite a while. Chinese export versions are NOT major downgrades. They have never been. It makes absolutely no sense to downgrade a system to that degree just for export to such select nations. If the PL-15 can accurately and regularly achieve just what the claimed performance figures are for the PL-15E, it is already one of the best BVR missiles in service right now. It’s not that the PL-15Es claimed figures are bad, it’s that the PL-15 (Local versions) figures are so absurdly overrated and faked that it makes the PL-15Es claimed figures look bad in comparison. I remember explaining about half the factors that effect a missiles range once on another thread (when PL-15Es “range” was revealed), it seems people have not caught on. Unfortunately we are still comparing missiles the wrong way.

sqn ldr Fahad Masood in OP himself has described pl15 as a 200+ km missile.....baat he khatam ho gye......i think he knows better then laymen like u and me.

BTW that ACE OF PAF pl15 being tested on blk 2 isnt photoshopped just a low resolution pic in which ''White'' color missile is visually seems more visible due to background gray color of jf17.
Dubara zarra ghaor sy dekho.

And NEZ is different for dual pulse missiles, vs single pulse motor missiles.

 

[SQ8]

No it cannot. You do not have a basic understanding of how Missile ranges work. The same missile can have both a 100KM range and a 200KM range depending on Literally nearly two dozen factors. Please, for the love of god, stop talking about missile ranges like concrete numbers, it is possibly the utmost stupidest way to measure their capability, especially with how many other things go into making a good missile.

The PL-15 cannot, will not and should not be able to reach 250KM under the most ideal of conditions, but it does not have to. If it can reach even a 145 KM range under average conditions, it is one of the best missiles in service already.

I also highly doubt there is any major range difference in Chinese export and Local use missiles. Literally changing a missiles range by 100KM is not a simple task, the tiniest weight imbalance changes the entire behavior of a missile. You simply do not take that much range off without a costly redesign that I am 100% sure China did not do. There are probably some minor downgrades, but I doubt range and lethality have anything to do with it.

I don’t know where all these stupid claims came from of absurd ranges And why people on this forum cannot leave them alone.


That photo is fake. It’s a photoshop. I mean no offense but if I was you I’d delete every single post you’ve made in this thread so far.


I highly doubt they are.


The last line is what I’ve been repeating for quite a while. Chinese export versions are NOT major downgrades. They have never been. It makes absolutely no sense to downgrade a system to that degree just for export to such select nations. If the PL-15 can accurately and regularly achieve just what the claimed performance figures are for the PL-15E, it is already one of the best BVR missiles in service right now. It’s not that the PL-15Es claimed figures are bad, it’s that the PL-15 (Local versions) figures are so absurdly overrated and faked that it makes the PL-15Es claimed figures look bad in comparison. I remember explaining about half the factors that effect a missiles range once on another thread (when PL-15Es “range” was revealed), it seems people have not caught on. Unfortunately we are still comparing missiles the wrong way.

It’s basic marketing and part threat illusion as far as ranges go. AIM-120C can go as far as a 100km or more depending upon a head-on non-maneuvering target at altitude and barely make it 12-15km against a target running away from it at high speed at low altitude.

People should subscribe to DCS content creators to get some basics of air combat because otherwise they cling onto nonsense like the gospel truth.

The 200km range is as valid as 145km - it is likely the 145km figure is averaged out.

MBDA does a similar trick for the meteor

 

[iLION12345_1]

sqn ldr Fahad Masood in OP himself has described pl15 as a 200+ km missile.....baat he khatam ho gye......i think we knows better then laymen like u and me.

BTW that ACE OF PAF pl15 being tested on blk 2 isnt photoshopped just a low resolution pic in which ''White'' color missile is visually seems more visible due to background gray color of jf17.
Dubara zarra ghaor sy dekho.

And NEZ is different for dual pulse missiles, vs single pulse motor missiles.

Then the squadron leader is partially wrong. It’s simple as that. I don’t know why or how his word became gospel, especially considering the things he got wrong and the fact that all the information except one fact he stated was common knowledge. That doesn’t mean he’s entirely wrong, I’m not saying the missile cannot go 200+ KM. It probably can under some conditions, but that’s exactly the issue, as I said before, the range alone as a concrete number is an absolutely useless metric. It can vary by over 50% depending on launch conditions. “Laymen” like me know a thing or two as well. If the army chief comes out and says that the Pakistan army has better force projection than the American one, would you start believing that too? And one last time, the range alone is an absolutely useless metric.

Very few engagements are going to be taking place at those ranges anyways, no self respecting pilot will take a Pot-shot with a BVR at even 100 KM ranges let alone 200. How the missile performs in the ranges where 80% of engagements will take place (below 80KM ranges) is far more important of a metric than it’s total range under the best circumstances.

The Squadron leader only knows what he’s been told, he didn’t design or test the missile. I don’t even think he knew that many specific details of the aircraft or the deal given he’s going off common knowledge. Just because someone was in the service doesn’t make them instantly correct about everything. I’m sure he knows plenty that I don’t but this is beyond logical reasoning. If anything it holds their words to a higher standard and when they get it wrong it’s a bigger issue. that’s also why they’re often used to (blatantly) give out common or inaccurate information.

The picture is definitely photoshopped. Anyone with a keen eye can see that. JF17 has not been seen with PL15 yet. It’s been known for years. You’re blatantly spreading misinformation at that point, do you not think that photo was tirelessly debated on this forum when it came out?

I don’t see how the last point is relevant to anything, if anything it just proves my point further that the range is a useless metric.

 

[SQ8]

Then the squadron leader is partially wrong. It’s simple as that. I don’t know why or how his word became gospel, especially considering the things he got wrong and the fact that all the information except one fact he stated was common knowledge. That doesn’t mean he’s entirely wrong, I’m not saying the missile cannot go 200+ KM. It probably can under some conditions, but that’s exactly the issue, as I said before, the range alone as a concrete number is an absolutely useless metric. It can vary by over 50% depending on launch conditions. “Laymen” like me know a thing or two as well. If the army chief comes out and says that the Pakistan army has better force projection than the American one, would you start believing that too? And one last time, the range alone is an absolutely useless metric.

Very few engagements are going to be taking place at those ranges anyways, no self respecting pilot will take a Pot-shot with a BVR at even 100 KM ranges let alone 200. How the missile performs in the ranges where 80% of engagements will take place (below 80KM ranges) is far more important of a metric than it’s total range under the best circumstances.

The Squadron leader only knows what he’s been told, he didn’t design or test the missile. I don’t even think he knew that many specific details of the aircraft or the deal given he’s going off common knowledge. Just because someone was in the service doesn’t make them instantly correct about everything. I’m sure he knows plenty that I don’t but this is beyond logical reasoning. If anything it holds their words to a higher standard and when they get it wrong it’s a bigger issue. that’s also why they’re often used to (blatantly) give out common or inaccurate information.

The picture is definitely photoshopped. Anyone with a keen eye can see that. JF17 has not been seen with PL15 yet. It’s been known for years. You’re blatantly spreading misinformation at that point, do you not think that photo was tirelessly debated on this forum when it came out?

I don’t see how the last point is relevant to anything, if anything it just proves my point further that the range is a useless metric.

The PAF air chief was on record citing “We can get the F-22 if we want to and funds permit”

Completely oblivious to the US law that forbids the F-22 for export. Now, is the Chief or Air Staff correct or US legislation?
Or perhaps the Air Chief was giving a statement to the best of his knowledge and exposure for the question much as the good Sdn Ldr is.
Doesn’t mean they aren’t qualified but that it wasn’t the CASs knowledge sphere to what surrounds the F-22 and it may be that the Sqn Ldr retirement and lack of DIRECT exposure and learning perhaps has him omit or obfuscate certain details.

After all, when the PAF is now wary of talking to former servicemen after too much was said after 27/2/19 then they may be wary of revealing that.

A personal story of mine which I was state regardless of acceptance:

Some years ago I sat across from Dr. S M’mand in his home and asked him if the Shaheen 3 was capable of evasive maneuvers based on an interview he gave
His reply “Its on the internet, watch it there”

I switched and asked about the babur (whose initial guidance code I happened to peek upon once so not like I didn’t know a little) and gave some context to “what happened to that planned feature”
He smiled and poker faced me

I casually mentioned something regarding the Ghaznavi
His reply, was exactly the same.

So, some are unbelievably good with opsec.. others will state a little(such as the performance for the SD-10 hinted to me or that there were 3 5th gen routes the PAf was looking at)

But for the most part - serving ofcrs and especially those in key positions wont state a thing. Those retired do like the idea of speaking a lot such as AVM SL and being in the limelight.
Others will never speak up because not only do they know a lot, a slip of the tongue can mean everything from disappearing to accidental death or worse

 

[iLION12345_1]

ok sir!!! orr kuch???

yr a real life maverick!!!!

tom cruise take that!!!

or han, NEZ mean No Escape Zone......its the same bull crap that u have written in this post abt optical BVR missile launch parameters.. NEZ varies for different kind of missiles. For a slim single pulse missile like AIM120C-5 NEZ is different. For fatter missiles like AIM-54 Phoenix, SD10A/B, PL12 its different. The more u go high in altitude the better for these kind of missiles. Best launch parameters for SD10 for max performance are above 30K feet, below that it starts suffering drag. Air get thinner and thinner as u go high. And get thicker and thicker as u go low resulting in different flight performances of an a/c as well as in performance of these missiles and bombs. Thin air, u dont suffer as much of a drag as much u suffer in denser air and the more u go down the denser it becomes. There is a reason why these days hardly any pilot flies his a/c at mach 2 at low terrain hugging altitudes. Unless absolutely necessary to get out of hot zone try to stay below radars.....

What yr talking abt r the flight launch parameters of an aim120c which is slimmer and BTW if u dont know, below 3K feet it also starts suffering drag. Resulting in its lower performance interms of range/speed. That so called 10-12km yr talking abt of aim120 failing to reach a target going cold is due to that! Its most likely was fired around 1500 or 1000 feet altitude or below.

And now lets talking abt pl15 in view of the above, the reason why i said that NEZ r different b/w single pulse and duel pulse motor missiles is because, when fired at an altitude ie above 30K ideally......It will go even faster ie at mach 4 and with longer ranges upto even 200+ if u loft it. Loft ka pta ha na k kya hota ha when it comes to missile launch k wo b btaon? PL15 is basically 2 pl12 merged together with an AESA seeker giving it lock after launch capability in other words its fire n forget same as israeli I-Derby-ER. Means pilots will just have to get their bearings right and just launch this missile even if their own a/c radar is not picking any target, by launching this missile in the general direction of enemy a/c at high altitude, he can just turn cold or dive to loose his altitude ie defensive maneuvers save his life and the aircraft's. and forget abt the missile. Missile's own AESA at terminal phase will guide her to the target all by herself picking the closest target herself autonomously. These both PL15/12 have huge fins for maneuverability resulting in their 95% kill rate vs an Aim 120C-5 according to ACE OF PAF guys, the trick is to just launch it in its correct parameters. PAF had score a record 80km su30 kill in op. swift retort with an aim120c by doing exactly the same thing, as they launched it at altitude and lofted the missile while launching, resulting in its better NEZ while average NEZ for aim 120 is around 20-37 nm(37-68.5km). That 80km kill was a 43.2nm kill.

Now these modern missiles like Meteor and PL15 AIM120D and AIM262 and new Russian R series missiles abb NEZ ka chakkar he khatam ho gya ha. Now a/c can go far beyond their usual NEZ which was ideally b/w 20 to 37 nm before for older missiles like aim120C series which were actually designed in 80s/90s. One of the reasons why now America is investing on newer 21st century missiles like AIM262 with extremely high ranges.

And this Meteor is an excellent low altitude launch missile same as MICA. French missiles r known to perform excellently in low altitude........And why is Meteor is excellent in low altitude is because of its ramjet engine, its an air breathing missile meaning its never going to lose energy till the last second of its entire 180km flight path and will only stop when its internal fuel runs out......Meaning in low altitudes where air is denser its performances would be best, and more lower u will go the better. While in high altitude it will be shit because of the same reason, thinner air. It wont give u its full 180 km range and its full speed of mach 4. Its NEZ is claimed to be 60km in google but thats no correct if its launched at its right parameters.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, an english idiom.....u know things only over the surface but answers are in details. Update yourself, aim120c is old missile u no longer can use it as a benchmark of excellence to compare modern 21st century BVRAAMs.
So let the professionals talk abt these things, they know better, this Fahad Masood is a guy whose home sqn no15 cobras is being reequipped with j10s, his own course and sqn maters r right flying this jet as i write this post. SO LISTEN TO HIM!

@SQ8 or han Amreeki chacha, read this post.....i do watch DCS world, am a long time subscriber, i even follow DCS World events

https://www.youtube.com/c/DCSWorldEvents1

I would suggest u to subscribe to them, real life young PAF pilots also take part in their tournaments and championships they arrange. And r learning the art of BVR, tactics, tricks, correct and optimum launch parameters for different types of missiles from playing their championships. Following only Growlingsidewinder isnt enough.

Or just focus on yr grocery store in US, i heard a Black man with a knife was roaming around yr store today to loot yr bihari a'''' Focus on yr new life buddy not on foreign countries like ours.

I won’t bother to read this badly written waste of time. Should have stopped responding when I saw the -20 ratings. I don’t know why people like this are allowed on the forum. All they do is spread misinformation and insult others because they can’t do anything worthwhile to feed their egos. Pathetic.