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How Kashmir was stolen from Pakistan by Mountbatten

Pakistan is concerned about the safety of its people. There are over 140 armed secessionist groups operating in India, the largest in the world. That is why these people may not be allowed in a country which is infested with such groups, have massive law and order problems, Assam riots are a recent example and lot of people are getting killed. That's the reason.

Really!!??
You are the epicenter of Global terrorism ..worlds most wanted terrorists flourish in your land ..you have terrorist attack/bombing/beheading every second day in your country.
Your allies bomb you on a regular basis..just because they believe you to be harboring terrorists.

And you think India is unsafe compared to yours??!!
 
Well ! Bangladesh or Bangalistan only belongs to bangladeshi peoples , their liberation forces killed millions of non-bengalis with help of indian establishment to clearly imposed the basic lesson that its even not for india niether for Pakistan. So Nor they were our people before partition , niether they were same before liberation. We even don't share similar culture niether we had linked bordar so we could communicate and understand each others traditions. Well ! we had faced similar insurgencies in western part too but does it succeded? Leave everything indian forces even not managed to liberate Pakistan's Kashmir on western front.
As far as Kashmir is concerned I don't support militancey against unarmed public, But peaceful protest is their right and you know better why you have to implement curfew everytime on your part of Kashmir. and , I personnally think that people of Kargil mostly Shia are more nearer to Iran then india or Pakistan
:hitwall::hitwall::hitwall:...Why the hell did I read this, its gibberish.....

You are against all popular beliefs even of Pakistanis. Even they will laugh at you. Read some history.
 
Agreed with your previous post , Thats why Peoples of disputed territory continued their struggle against occupiers in srinagar section.

What will happen! More Bangladeshis will settle in West Bengal till the desired demographic change occurs.



Yes. Any problem with that.
Well ! this same poster seems more worried in Threads related to Bangladeshi Immigrants, Here his typical cheers reflects that term "Akhir dushman ku bhi tu dekhana hey k sub theek hey".
 
Really!!??
You are the epicenter of Global terrorism ..worlds most wanted terrorists flourish in your land ..you have terrorist attack/bombing/beheading every second day in your country.
Your allies bomb you on a regular basis..just because they believe you to be harboring terrorists.

And you think India is unsafe compared to yours??!!

Yes I do. You have any problem with that.
 
Pakistan will continue providing moral and diplomatic support to Kashmiri Freedom Fighters. ;)

Exactly.. so UNSC resolution can go into the dustbin... FTW the moral and diplomatic support for the freedom fighters everywhere in the world.. Kashmir, Balochistan etc etc.. ;)
 
Exactly.. so UNSC resolution can go into the dustbin... FTW the moral and diplomatic support for the freedom fighters everywhere in the world.. Kashmir, Balochistan etc etc.. ;)

Yeah, some of these chaps don't seem to understand. We can give the same "moral & diplomatic support" to freedom fighters in Baluchistan with the added advantage that we don't have to worry about any reduction in water due to that "support", if you get my drift......
 
Exactly.. so UNSC resolution can go into the dustbin... FTW the moral and diplomatic support for the freedom fighters everywhere in the world.. Kashmir, Balochistan etc etc.. ;)

Moral and diplomatic support will continue. UN resolutions will also stay.

Offcourse!! Cause I believe Schizophrenia should not go untreated.

Agreed. Please get yourself treated.

Yeah, some of these chaps don't seem to understand. We can give the same "moral & diplomatic support" to freedom fighters in Baluchistan with the added advantage that we don't have to worry about any reduction in water due to that "support", if you get my drift......

Aren't you already providing such a support. Please continue.

Yes you will have to worry about reduction of water, in your knees.
 
if u guys cant give kashmir 2 pakistan make it an independent state

u guys slaughtering those people in their own land

Will you apply the same logic if Burma disputes some BD territory??
 
He is Rehman Malik. Even we don't understand what he is saying.

:lol: but you did not restrain yourself from giving reasons for his statement and decision.. You see that is what is wrong with your country... With nationalism you guys loose your bearings... :cheesy:
 
Quote from Nassr’s post earlier ……

Withdrawal of Pakistani Forces from Kashmir is one big contentious point Indians talk about all the time. Sir, when meetings were sought by Pakistan to decide on the framework, strength of Indian remaining forces etc and timings of withdrawal, the Indians balked out and did not hold any meeting. Pakistan was ready to withdraw the forces in order to hold the plebiscite, but it were the Indians who would not sit down to decide on the framework.

And then, when Nehru didn’t intend to allow a plebiscite, withdrawing of Pakistani Forces from Kashmir was not worth it at all.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...en-pakistan-mountbatten-38.html#ixzz238rF1IXv

Nehru in his Note, stated that towards the end of 1948 that he ruled out the plebiscite for all practical purposes (Selected Works of Jawaharlal Nehru; volume 19, pages 322-330).

Please read the discussion before you opine through the little grayish matter left in your ankles.

United Nations Military Observer Group in India and Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As far as I've read, Pakistan refused to leave P0K (<---Why is the word blacklisted again?). We wanted an excuse to not hold a plebiscite, you guys gave it to us, :yahoo:. And still Kashmiris prefer India over Pakistan any day.
 
Withdrawal of Pakistani Forces from Kashmir is one big contentious point Indians talk about all the time. Sir, when meetings were sought by Pakistan to decide on the framework, strength of Indian remaining forces etc and timings of withdrawal, the Indians balked out and did not hold any meeting. Pakistan was ready to withdraw the forces in order to hold the plebiscite, but it were the Indians who would not sit down to decide on the framework.
Rubbish.

Pakistan was was demanding something that they were not entitled to. I am quoting one of my earlier posts with minor adaptation.

Part II/B(1) of Cease Fire Agreement (13th August, 1948) reads:


“When the Commission shall have notified the Government of India that the tribesmen and Pakistan nationals referred to in Part II A 2 hereof have withdrawn, thereby terminating the situation which was represented by the Government of India to the Security Council as having occasioned the presence of Indian forces in the State of Jammu and Kashmir, and further, that the Pakistan forces are being withdrawn from the State of Jammu and Kashmir, the Government of India agrees to begin to withdraw the bulk of their forces from the State in stages to be agreed upon with the Commission”


Nehru, while seeking clarifications on the resolution of 13th Aug, 1948, had sought to identify the parties to the negotiation concerning demilitarization. He wrote to Joseph Korbel, the Chairman of the Commission, on 20th Aug, 1948 (UNCIP’s 1st Report):


“...the paramount need for security is recognized by the Commission, and the time when the withdrawal of Indian forces from the State is to begin, the stages in which it is to be carried out and the strength of Indian forces to be retained in the State, are matters for settlement between the Commission and the Government of India(para 4)​


Joseph Korbel, wrote back, on 25th Aug, 1948, confirming Nehru’s interpretation (UNCIP’s 1st Report):


“The Commission requests me to convey to Your Excellency its view that the interpretation of the Resolution as expressed in paragraph 4 of your letter coincides with its own interpretation...”


Pakistan, too, had sought clarification on this very issue. Joseph Korbel, in his letter to Zafarulla Khan, dated 3rd Sept, 1948, stated (UNCIP’s 1st Report):


“As regards paragraphs B 1 and 2 of Part II, the Commission, while recognizing the paramount need for security of the State of Jammu ad Kashmir, confirms that the minimum strength required for the purpose of assisting the local authorities in the observance of law and order, would be determined by the Commission and the Government of India. The Commission considers that it is free to hear the views of the Government of Pakistan on the subject.”


In other words, India was neither obliged to negotiate with Pakistan nor to share information about demilitarization with anyone other than UN Commission. Neither did Pakistan have any right to dictate terms and conditions for its own withdrawal or seek information from India, about India’s withdrawal. Pakistan’s role was relegated to that of someone who Commission may ‘hear’, and not that of a party to the negotiation. As far as India was concerned, UN was ‘free to hear views’ of whoever UN decided.

UNCIP’s 3rd Report, clarifies the positions of the two countries on this issue of demilitarization and the process of negotiations.


''...the Pakistan delegation held (a) that the objective of the truce agreement is to create a military balance between the forces on each side and (b) that the withdrawal of her regular forces depended upon plans acceptable to the Pakistan Government for the synchronization of this withdrawal that of the bulk of the Indian forces. (para 229)

India, on the other hand, has (a) never accepted the claim of Pakistan to equality of rights in a military or any other sphere, but considers that the presence of Pakistan troops in Kashmir constitutes an act of aggression and a violation of international law; and (b) has refused to discuss with Pakistan any feature of the withdrawal of Indian forces, maintaining that the timing and staging of the Indian withdrawals and the strength of Indian forces to be retained in the State were matters for settlement between the Commission and the Government of India. The Government of India at this time also made it clear that the fulfillment by the Government of Pakistan of the conditions of withdrawal was a condition precedent to the implementation by the Government of India of any arrangement regarding the withdrawal of its own forces."
(para 230)​


The Truce Agreement is clear that Pakistan would have to evacuate the territories captured by it and the local authority will be looking after the administration of the evacuated territory under the direct supervision of the UN Commission.


“Pending a final solution the territory evacuated by the Pakistan troops will be administered by the local authorities under the surveillance of the Commission.” [Part II/A(3)]​


By no stretch of imagination can this be construed that ‘the objective of the truce agreement is to create a military balance between the forces on each side’. This deliberately flawed position of (a) led to (b). From Pakistan’s point of view, if it could be established that the withdrawal was about bringing in a ‘military balance’, it would then naturally mean that Pakistan got to decide what, for them, was an acceptable ‘military balance’. This in turn would mean that Pakistan’s withdrawal was contingent upon its agreement with Indian plan of withdrawal. It would then be very easy for Pakistan to weasel out of its own obligation by simply citing its disagreement with Indian plan of demilitarization. That’s exactly what they did eventually.

The Commission had on several occasions, clarified, that Pakistan had to ‘completely’ withdraw from the occupied part. The evacuated land was then to become UN’s concern and Pakistan had absolutely no role to play in it (not even in the subsequent plebiscite). Pakistan’s argument, based on its flawed premise, deliberate in any case, was in complete contradiction with the Commission’s clarifications. For example, UNCIP’s 3rd Report states:



“...the Resolution […], as has been pointed out, draws a distinction between the withdrawal of Indian and Pakistan forces. Pakistan troops are to begin to withdraw in advance of the Indian troops and their withdrawal is not conditioned on Pakistan's agreement to the plan of the Indian withdrawal.” (para 242)

“That Resolution does not suggest that Pakistan should be entitled to make her withdrawals conditional upon the consultations envisaged between the Commission and the Government of India having led to an agreed schedule of withdrawal of Indian troops. What Pakistan could expect would be that assurance be made that the withdrawals of the two armed forces be arranged and carried out in such a way as to prevent the creation of a situation which might constitute an opportunity for one or the other party to reopen the hostilities.”
(para 243)​



To summarise, (a) negotiations regarding demilitarization was very much a bipartite affair, where Pakistan had limited role to play, if at all it had any role to play, and (b) Pakistan’s withdrawal was ‘unconditional’ and ‘unilateral’, in the sense that it didn’t depend on India’s plan for demilitarization.
 
I will quote your post .........

UNCIP’s 3rd Report, clarifies the positions of the two countries on this issue of demilitarization and the process of negotiations.

''...the Pakistan delegation held (a) that the objective of the truce agreement is to create a military balance between the forces on each side and (b) that the withdrawal of her regular forces depended upon plans acceptable to the Pakistan Government for the synchronization of this withdrawal that of the bulk of the Indian forces. (para 229)

India, on the other hand, has (a) never accepted the claim of Pakistan to equality of rights in a military or any other sphere, but considers that the presence of Pakistan troops in Kashmir constitutes an act of aggression and a violation of international law; and (b) has refused to discuss with Pakistan any feature of the withdrawal of Indian forces, maintaining that the timing and staging of the Indian withdrawals and the strength of Indian forces to be retained in the State were matters for settlement between the Commission and the Government of India. The Government of India at this time also made it clear that the fulfillment by the Government of Pakistan of the conditions of withdrawal was a condition precedent to the implementation by the Government of India of any arrangement regarding the withdrawal of its own forces." (para 230)

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...en-pakistan-mountbatten-45.html#ixzz23A3CNRON


To say that Pakistan did not want to withdraw its forces stands denied from your own post. Pakistan agreed to withdraw its forces and wanted to discuss the withdrawal plan with India. Indians did not agree. Period.

The reason they did not agree becomes secondary.

I thank @Nassr for bringing out the farce of Indian claim and argument that it was because Pakistan did not agree to withdraw its forces from IOK and Plebiscite could not be held.

Thank you @Nassr.
 
^^ You need to read carefully dude, it says that Pakistan held despite the committee making it crystal clear that there was no relation between the withdrawal of Pakistan to Indian forces withdrawal..

See the emboldened part for clarification

&#8220;As regards paragraphs B 1 and 2 of Part II, the Commission, while recognizing the paramount need for security of the State of Jammu ad Kashmir, confirms that the minimum strength required for the purpose of assisting the local authorities in the observance of law and order, would be determined by the Commission and the Government of India. The Commission considers that it is free to hear the views of the Government of Pakistan on the subject.&#8221;

and

&#8220;That Resolution does not suggest that Pakistan should be entitled to make her withdrawals conditional upon the consultations envisaged between the Commission and the Government of India having led to an agreed schedule of withdrawal of Indian troops. What Pakistan could expect would be that assurance be made that the withdrawals of the two armed forces be arranged and carried out in such a way as to prevent the creation of a situation which might constitute an opportunity for one or the other party to reopen the hostilities.&#8221; (para 243)


Pakistan can hold anything, like it holds that there is no state sponsored terrorism inside Pakistan -the facts speak otherwise - does not mean that it is correct!


Please do not puke without reading completely.. :sick:
 
I will quote your post .........

UNCIP’s 3rd Report, clarifies the positions of the two countries on this issue of demilitarization and the process of negotiations.

''...the Pakistan delegation held (a) that the objective of the truce agreement is to create a military balance between the forces on each side and (b) that the withdrawal of her regular forces depended upon plans acceptable to the Pakistan Government for the synchronization of this withdrawal that of the bulk of the Indian forces. (para 229)

What you are stating is the position of pakistan. India was not bound to accept your propositions.
 

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