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How Isreal attacked Gaza Hospital, My assessment.

The current claim is 500 dead. If so, there must be corresponding PHYSICAL evidences of a weapon and attack method that would produce such casualty count.

So either it is a failed rocket fired by someone else, Hamas or Islamic Jihad, or an Israeli tank attack. As long as the 500 dead claim persists, the physical evidence cannot implicate Israel.

Only degenerates attack hospitals

And biggest physical evidence is that your ally is a country of degenerates

So it is only Israel that is behind attack on hospital and not some rocket
 
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A bomb traveling at supersonic speed and exploding. You would have seen the explosion first and herd the sound of bomb tavelling later.

Because bomb is traveling faster than speed of sound.

That does not happen in this case.
The bomb made the similar sound to what JDAM and GBU-39 makes, do the travel at supersonic speeds?
 
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Only degenerates attack hospitals

And biggest physical evidence is that your ally is a country of degenerates

So it is only Israel that is behind attack on hospital and not some rocket
You can resort to name calling all you want, but global opinions started moving away from that narrative because their own military said the physical evidences do not, and cannot, match the 500 dead claim.

The problem for you is that now the Palestinians cannot back off that claim. They cannot say it is now an Israeli tank attack because the ground invasion is not started. So if it is not possible to call it a tank attack, and the physical evidences do not match an air strike, what ?
 
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First of all it it was an airburst it wouldn't have that small little crater in the first place. Second why airburst in the parking lot when you can drop a JDAM directly on a hospital and flatten it. That doesn't make sense at all. It be like trying to airburst a bunker.
There were many people in and around the parking lot sheltering, Airburst does not make a big crater as it explodes in the Air.

High pitch noise does not necessarily mean supersonic. And as someone suggested, you would have seen the flash before you hear the sound because light travel a lot faster than sound, if that bomb travel SUPER-sonic, it mean it would detonated before you hear the bomb detonate, because it is travel faster than sound. That's what supersonic means

And from his video (which most people show depicting the "bomb" hitting the hospital)

You can clearly hear the sound before the flash, which mean whatever it was exploding is slower than sound.


No, I am saying it is a fuel explosion. It could be anything, it could be fuel leak from car, fuel from a rocket, fuel from a missile. It most likely not a Kinetic Explosion as in conventional bomb attack.

Even Airburst bomb, you will still kick up dust and soil and create cratering, not to mention shrapnel damage, so if that car lot is where the bomb hits, all those are not there in the car park. Kinetic Damage radiate, so you cannot be next to a target of a kinetic strike and have not a single sign.
The sound of the bomb is similar to what JDAM and GBU-39 makes. I don't know how fast they are before the impact.
 
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Abnsence of craters in Gaza hospital attack suggests use of ‘proximity fuse’: Ammunition specialist

Retired military officer, ammunition specialist tells Anadolu there is strong possibility that attack carried out with MK-84 guided bomb​

Serhat Tutak |19.10.2023 - Update : 19.10.2023

ANKARA
The Israeli attack on a hospital in Gaza was carried out with a “proximity fuse” bomb that explodes high above the ground, an expert told Anadolu on Wednesday.

Retired military officer and ammunition specialist Engin Yigit said there was a strong possibility that the attack was carried out with an MK-84 guided bomb.
Yigit said considering the images of the moment of the attack, the probability that the ammunition was a JDAM-equipped 2,000-pound (910-kilogram) Mark 84 (MK-84) bomb increased.

He noted that Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) is the name of one of the guidance kits. “You can make the bomb guided with a kit that you attach to the front or back of MAK-82, MAK-83, MAK-84 bombs.”
“JDAM is a type of kit that allows precise delivery of the bomb to the target,” he said. “The said kit attached to the bomb makes the bomb smart and provides precision strike capability.”

Yigit said there are several fuses to detonate the bombs and some can explode on impact, while others can explode at the desired moment and height before impact.

“Bombs with proximity fuses or proximity sensors may not create craters where they explode,” he said. “The hospital attack in Gaza may have been similar. How high the bomb explodes can be set by the user.”
The strike by Israel on the al-Ahli Baptist Hospital killed at least 471 victims, according to revised figures by the Gaza Health Ministry.

The conflict began Oct. 7 when Hamas initiated Operation Al-Aqsa Flood -- a multi-pronged surprise attack that included a barrage of rocket launches and infiltrations into Israel by land, sea and air.
Hamas said the incursion was in retaliation for the storming of the Al-Aqsa Mosque and growing violence by Israeli settlers.

The Israeli military then launched Operation Swords of Iron against Hamas targets in the Gaza Strip.
At least 3,478 Palestinians have been killed. The death toll in Israel stands at more than 1,400.
 
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Well, at least I support my claim with evidence I see and I did not see, tell me why yours are the "truth" when mine are disinformation??

But you are right, let's call mods and let them decide who is posting disinformation? Shall we?

@LeGenD @waz


You can clearly see those 2 cars flip over from the picture of yours, this does not happened on the Hospital car lot

View attachment 963383

Cellulose case means less shrapnel, that does not mean the explosive force is also minimized.
The cars in parking lot are badly damaged, one being completely destroyed and we don't know if it and others were moved from their original place.

Look carefully in this video between 0:30 to 0:31.

You will see the airbrust round pushes concussion wave down along with the fireball into the ground.

If this happened in that parking lot, then

A.) All the car will be thrown around by this concussion wave.
B.) This will bring the fire down and scotch everything under that concussion wave.

Again, that mean you won't have half burn car fully intact on that parking lot, those cars would have been push down compacted, and burn from top to bottom.

Plus the hospital explosion don't explode the same way than this airburst round, if you compare the flashes, there are always 2 flashes from an airburst round, first with the bomb explode in the air, second is the concussion wave pushes the flash down because of the inertia force. The Hospital explosion only have one giant flash and more importantly, the flash is from ground up into the air, it goes the other direction of an Airburst round.
The cars were burnt as you pointed that the Airburst will bring fire down under the concussion wave, plus some cars are badly destroyed and damaged, and may have been moved from the original position as seen from the image and one car is actually flipped.
F8tUAY8XEAAra5x.jpeg
 
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You can resort to name calling all you want, but global opinions started moving away from that narrative because their own military said the physical evidences do not, and cannot, match the 500 dead claim.

The problem for you is that now the Palestinians cannot back off that claim. They cannot say it is now an Israeli tank attack because the ground invasion is not started. So if it is not possible to call it a tank attack, and the physical evidences do not match an air strike, what ?

I don't give a f@ck about global opinion I really don't

You can keep bullshitting whole day to defend your degenerate ally but you and me both know it was Israel who bombed that hospital and is bombing hospitals even now
 
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The cars in parking lot are badly damaged, one being completely destroyed and we don't know if it and others were moved from their original place.

Then I will say you and I have a different definition of "Badly Damage" and "Destroyed"

Both of these are a aftermath of car bomb

1697725801971.png


This is badly damaged (Car bomb exploded next to these car)

1697725738239.png

This is my definition of completely destroy (This is the car bomb target)

and you are comparing to this

1697637460765.png


The cars were burnt as you pointed that the Airburst will bring fire down under the concussion wave, plus some cars are badly destroyed and damaged, and may have been moved from the original position as seen from the image and one car is actually flipped.View attachment 963453
lol, how are these car "burnt" when I can still make out the orange and blue and black car in or around the "Ground zero" The paint job would have been the first thing to go if they were burnt. Not to mention a variety degree of burn from inside the supposed "Ground Zero" which would be strange occurrence because the downdraft. would have engulf the entire area with the same fireball if they were an airburst.

And then what kind of damage radius is this "Air burst" attack? The area I can see is lined from 4 car going across and 5 rows of cars, on average you are talking about a single medium size car is about 2 meters across and 4 meters long, which mean you are talking about an area no bigger than 10m x 20m ??. Where you can literally see the silver hatchback is lightly damage and the red 7 seater and the silver 7-seater as well as the metallic black hatch is in a rather prestige state?

I don't think I have ever seen an air burst munition drop from the air make such as small impact area... In fact, I don't think I have seen 500 pounder go off ground level have such as small impact area......a ground det Mk82 500lbs bomb have a blast radius of 80mx30m, which make the effective affected area of 2400 square meters, compare to this, which is roughly 200 sq m
 
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Then I will say you and I have a different definition of "Badly Damage" and "Destroyed"

Both of these are a aftermath of car bomb

View attachment 963485

This is badly damaged (Car bomb exploded next to these car)

View attachment 963484
This is my definition of completely destroy (This is the car bomb target)

and you are comparing to this

View attachment 963487


lol, how are these car "burnt" when I can still make out the orange and blue and black car in or around the "Ground zero" The paint job would have been the first thing to go if they were burnt. Not to mention a variety degree of burn from inside the supposed "Ground Zero" which would be strange occurrence because the downdraft. would have engulf the entire area with the same fireball if they were an airburst.

And then what kind of damage radius is this "Air burst" attack? The area I can see is lined from 4 car going across and 5 rows of cars, on average you are talking about a single medium size car is about 2 meters across and 4 meters long, which mean you are talking about an area no bigger than 10m x 20m ??. Where you can literally see the silver hatchback is lightly damage and the red 7 seater and the silver 7-seater as well as the metallic black hatch is in a rather prestige state?

I don't think I have ever seen an air burst munition drop from the air make such as small impact area... In fact, I don't think I have seen 500 pounder go off ground level have such as small impact area......a ground det Mk82 500lbs bomb have a blast radius of 80mx30m, which make the effective affected area of 2400 square meters, compare to this, which is roughly 200 sq m
Take a look at this, it is completely destroyed and flipped.
Damage.jpg


People were all around this place and the bomb was dropped to cause maximum casualties, as one of the purposes of an Airburst Bomb is to cause maximum human casualties.
 

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First of all, I did not say who did what, in fact, I have already said I can't pinpoint to whoever did this because to do this, you will need to be in on the ground and collect evidence. No one can just by a look of what happened.

However, I don't need to be there to know what is missing in a scene, so I can say for sure what this is not.


On the other hand, you have offered NOTHING toward this, I am not really too sure if you even offered your opinion, instead of jump right into trolling. Maybe you need to heed what THE MOD, whom you called, said here and Let me quote them here for you
Just like I said before twisting and turning like a mottled eel or should I say like a motley fool.
Definitions of motley fool. a professional clown employed to entertain a king or nobleman in the Middle Ages. synonyms: fool, jester. type of: buffoon, clown, goof, goofball, merry andrew. a person who amuses others by ridiculous behavior.

Nothing - just ask your governments to stop blocking and censoring actual coverage of the genocide. And maybe you don't know ( I will give you the benefit of doubt even though you don't deserve it) how many journalists have been murdered by the israeli scum so no one will be able to counter their propaganda and disinformation. (Apparently Al Jazeera is still there but I fear for their lives after Sanad agency debunked the israeli claim)
 
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Doha, Qatar – Al Jazeera’s Sanad Agency has investigated the Israeli claim that the bombing of Gaza’s al-Ahli Arab Hospital was the result of a rocket misfire from Palestinian Islamic Jihad and not a result of Israel’s relentless bombing of the Gaza Strip since October 7.
Sanad’s investigation analysed time-coded footage from several sources, including a live broadcast by an Al Jazeera journalist at the time.

end of list
Also analysed was live footage of Gaza from Israel, which clarified that the live Al Jazeera broadcast lagged by 35 seconds.
The investigation reveals that Israeli statements seem to have misinterpreted the evidence to build a story that one of the flashes recorded by several sources was a rocket misfire.
Based on a detailed review of all videos, Sanad’s analysts conclude that the flash Israel attributed to a misfire was in fact consistent with Israel’s Iron Dome missile defence system intercepting a missile fired from the Gaza Strip and destroying it in mid-air.
SOURCE: AL JAZEERA
 
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What is Israel’s narrative on the Gaza hospital explosion?​

Denials of responsibility and deleted social media posts arouse suspicion around Israel’s view of the attack.

People react at the area of Al-Ahli hospital, where hundreds of Palestinians were killed in a blast

Hundreds of Palestinians were killed in a blast at al-Ahli Arab Hospital that Israeli and Palestinian officials blamed on each other [Mohammed Al-Masri/Reuters]
Published On 18 Oct 202318 Oct 2023

At least 500 people were killed in an explosion at al-Ahli Arab Hospital in Gaza City at around 7.30pm on Tuesday, the deadliest strike since war broke out between Hamas and Israel on October 7.
In the fog of war, reactions have been confused, with denials of responsibility from both Israeli and Palestinian camps against a backdrop of competing online narratives and widespread disinformation.

But many are disinclined to believe Israel’s claim that the explosion was caused by a rocket launched by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) group. This scepticism has been fuelled by contradictions between Israel’s immediate and later responses.
So how has the narrative shifted since the explosion?

How did Israel react?​

Initial posts on X sent by Hananya Naftali, a digital aide to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, aroused suspicion. “Israeli Air Force struck a Hamas terrorist base inside a hospital in Gaza,” he wrote, but the post was almost immediately deleted.
By 10.58pm, Naftali apologised on X for sharing “a Reuters report” that “falsely stated Israel struck the hospital”. He said he had since deleted the tweet. “As the [Israeli army] does not bomb hospitals, I assumed Israel was targeting one of the Hamas bases in Gaza,” he added.


A bit earlier, at 9:04pm, the Israeli army had published a post blaming the strike on a misfired missile launched by PIJ: “From the analysis of the operational systems of the [Israeli army], an enemy rocket barrage was carried out towards Israel, which passed through the vicinity of the hospital when it was hit,” it said.



However, it transpired the post had been edited. An earlier version had included alleged video evidence.

But Aric Toler, a journalist on the visual investigations team at The New York Times, disputed the accuracy of the footage, noting that the time stamp indicated it had been recorded 40 minutes after the time of the explosion.


As a jumbled narrative emerged, sceptics seized on comments by Tal Heinrich, a spokesperson for Netanyahu, who told CNN on Tuesday night that the “[Israeli army] does not target hospitals”, adding, “We only target Hamas strongholds, arms depots and terror targets”.
But in a statement issued on the night of the explosion, the World Health Organization (WHO) pointed out that there had actually been over 51 attacks on healthcare facilities in Gaza since the start of the conflict on October 7. Fifteen healthcare workers had been killed and 27 injured.
The Israeli military itself had issued evacuation orders last week from 22 hospitals treating more than 2,000 patients in the Gaza Strip as it intensified its bombing campaign. A senior health official in Gaza told Al Jazeera that Israel had fired two artillery shells as a “warning” at al-Ahli Arab Hospital days before the explosion.
“Now, even a hospital is not a safe place anymore …” said Dr Richard Peeperkorn, WHO representative for the West Bank and Gaza.

What ‘evidence’ is out there?​

The Netanyahu government has denied that the blast could have been the result of an Israeli air strike.
On October 18, Netanyahu reposted evidence collated in a video from the army, showing examples of craters caused by army bombs, including holes of seven and nine metres, and aerial images of the hospital site. There were “no visible signs of craters or evidence of craters or significant damage to buildings,” said the video.


“The entire world should know: It was barbaric terrorists in Gaza that attacked the hospital in Gaza, and not the [Israeli army],” Netanyahu said in another post.
A widely circulated video of the blast, obtained from an Israeli Telegram account called Intellinews, doubled down on the Israeli army’s misfired rocket theory. Israeli analyst David Lisovtsev said: “This is a surface explosion, almost no soil is thrown up, so it’s not an air bomb. Looks like a failed Hamas rocket that landed there, what a tragedy has Hamas brought to the people of Gaza!”


On October 18, Justin Bronk, a senior research fellow for Airpower and Military Technology at the Royal United Services Institute think-tank in London, posted an image of the hospital’s burned-out parking lot circulated by an analyst at the US Center for Naval Analyses, with no crater visible. “Still not conclusive, but IF this is the extent of the damage then I’d say an airstrike looks less likely than a rocket failure causing an explosion and fuel fire,” he said.



The Israeli army also released a video showing spokesperson Daniel Hagari translating a recording of a conversation between purported Hamas officials, where they appear to talk about the misfired rocket that had caused the hospital blast.
To some, it seemed too neat. As one journalist later asked Hagari: “I’d like you to address the question of credibility, because … the [Israeli army] has a less than perfect track record with the issue of credibility”.
In his response, Hagari admitted that the military had lied before, but that now was different.


Why the scepticism?​

Many are inclined to disbelieve the Israeli government and army since the death of Al Jazeera journalist Shireen Abu Akleh. The Israeli government first denied any role in her death. Then, after multiple independent investigations confirmed that only an Israeli soldier could have killed her, the country’s government conceded that she likely did die from an Israeli shot.
Assassinated in May 2022, while reporting on Israeli incursions into the Jenin refugee camp, the veteran Palestinian-American journalist was shot in the head by a soldier.

At the time, Naftali Bennett, then the prime minister of Israel, responded with an online message, accusing Palestinians of her murder. “According to the information we have gathered, it appears likely that armed Palestinians – who were firing indiscriminately at the time – were responsible for the unfortunate death of the journalist,” he said.
Later, the Israeli military said there was a “high possibility” that slain Abu Akleh was “accidentally hit” by Israeli army fire. However, it decided not to pursue a criminal investigation into her death. This month, a report from a UN-mandated investigative body said Israeli forces used “lethal force without justification” when they shot and killed the journalist, violating her “right to life”.
Scepticism is also fuelled by the ruthlessness of the Israeli attacks on the besieged population of Gaza. At 7pm on October 17, shortly before the blast, Itamar Ben-Gvir, Israel’s minister of national security, had said on X: “As long as Hamas does not release the hostages in its hands – the only thing that needs to enter Gaza are hundreds of tons of explosives from the Air Force, not an ounce of humanitarian aid.”


Shortly after the blast, Netanyahu deleted a message from his X feed that repeated a line from his address on October 16 to the Knesset. It said: “This is a struggle between the children of light and the children of darkness, between humanity and the law of the jungle”. The message appeared to echo the tone used earlier by Israeli Defence Minister Yoav Gallant, who had described Palestinians as “beastly people”.
SOURCE: AL JAZEERA AND NEWS AGENCIES
 
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Take a look at this, it is completely destroyed and flipped.View attachment 963534

People were all around this place and the bomb was dropped to cause maximum casualties, as one of the purposes of an Airburst Bomb is to cause maximum human casualties.
.........So one car out of 12 flipped?? I don't know what you think about "Maximum Casuality" I called JDAM strike before, I can tell you my definition of causing "Maximum" casualty is not just to flip 1 car out of 12, those terminal controllers would probably laugh at me when I call out the target.

Again, even if you do Mk82, a 500-pound bomb, which is the smallest we used today, you are talking about a ground det of everything within the 2400 sq meters be destroyed, everything in that 2400 sq meters will be gone, nothing, everything is mangled, and an airburst will cause less destruction,, yes, but its not going to be one car being flipped and the other 11 cars is okay. the affected area is going to be a lot bigger than this car lot. Those clay roof you see in the lower left corner will either be gone or peppered with Shrapnel. You are not talking about Airbrushing an AP mine field; we are talking about Airbrushing a 500 pounder.

If you think this is "Maximum Damage" then my suggestion for you is, don't go to war..........

Just like I said before twisting and turning like a mottled eel or should I say like a motley fool.
Definitions of motley fool. a professional clown employed to entertain a king or nobleman in the Middle Ages. synonyms: fool, jester. type of: buffoon, clown, goof, goofball, merry andrew. a person who amuses others by ridiculous behavior.

Nothing - just ask your governments to stop blocking and censoring actual coverage of the genocide. And maybe you don't know ( I will give you the benefit of doubt even though you don't deserve it) how many journalists have been murdered by the israeli scum so no one will be able to counter their propaganda and disinformation. (Apparently Al Jazeera is still there but I fear for their lives after Sanad agency debunked the israeli claim)
Yes, sure, why not.

Think you mistaken me with someone important.
 
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I think its a war crime to bomb a hospital.

But I think Hamas should not be provoking Israel either.

Two state solution and Jerusalem as an international city administered by United Nations is the best solution.

Most people would agree to this.
 
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I don't give a f@ck about global opinion I really don't
You are essentially a nobody, and I say that kindly, and your opinion do not matter, really.

You can keep bullshitting whole day to defend your degenerate ally but you and me both know it was Israel who bombed that hospital and is bombing hospitals even now
No, it is YOU who believe that. As for me, I will wait for more evidences for either way, but for now, the PHYSICAL evidences do not match with the claim of 500 dead.

Take a look at this, it is completely destroyed and flipped.View attachment 963534

People were all around this place and the bomb was dropped to cause maximum casualties, as one of the purposes of an Airburst Bomb is to cause maximum human casualties.
If it was an air burst, those rooftop solar panels would be gone. The ground would be more charred than what we see now. The PHYSICAL evidences indicate a ground explosion of something that seems to be fuel based.
 
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