How important are Pakistan's nuclear weapons?

[pakdefender]

if Pakistan didnt have nuclear weapons then by now the international thugs led by the americans and financed by torah real estate enterprise would have engineered a fake charge sheet against us and would have attacked us by now , with india playing the role of piggy in the middle

 

[qamar1990]

1974 smiling budha was a device not a bomb.
Same as bikini atoll hydrogen bomb was a device the size of a warehouse unfit for firing on an adversary.
Plus at the time india did not have enough uranium for making enough bombs for 'annihilating' Pakistan.
Then at the time tough sanctions were put on india at least on any equipment which could be used in a nuclear bomb..
So india wasnt being generous by not putting nuclear bomb in the equation....they simply didnt have any.

lol good reply brother

 

[dabong1]

Dude have you seen our punjabi movies. The hero in those movies does impossible acts that will put Rajnikant to shame. .

Didnt know who Rajnikant was.....just watched some youtube videos of the guy......his great!!!

 

[Capt.Popeye]

If Pakistan didnt have those weapons..India had 'tried it' long ago.
It the scare of tit for tat stopping india.

India does not even need Nukes to 'try it'. Or for that matter Conventional Weaponry.
Warfare is now fought by different means.

 

[araz]

There are 200+ countries, less than 10 have any nuclear weapons.

If your hypothesis were correct, the 190 countries would be at war with each other now. That's not the case. In fact, some of them, eg. South Korea, are doing remarkably well.

In pakistan's case, many believe nuclear weapons are a deterrent against India. I don't. If India wanted to annihilate Pakistan, it could've done so right after 1974's Smiling Buddha test... Yes, the yield was < 10kT, but with their expertise they could've easily built a 100 kT one within 1980 if they really concentrated on it. I still believe India's nuclear weapon yield (at least their potential yield) is much higher than reported. Pakistan simply doesn't have the scientific talent pool that India has. Even it's chief nuclear scientist is involved in smuggling nuclear materials to Iran and North Korea.

By the same token give me two countries bearing Nukes that have had a fight. This argument can work both ways. You have to remember that Pakistans search for and sacrifices for having a nuclear weapon were not some wet dream dreamt by a junkie with a dildo up his backside. there are a few very intelligent people wh0 have devised the plan and the need for it.
there is another aspect of it that you have to take into account. Nukes are not just about war. There is associated technology that in some ways is more important to us than the nukes themselves. There is progress made in many other spheres which has previously been denied to us and which we have had to strive hard for and sometimes steal, but we have gotten here.
The perception that pakistan is poor because odf the nukes is also without any basis. pakistan is poor because of the lack of imagination of its polity and the lack of institutions which can stop the rampant corruption which is single handedly destroying every fibre of the nation. As to wars, think of where you would have been in 2002and 2008 without nuclear weapons. Do you think the indians would have been so charitable as to just amass 200 000 men at the border for a picnic for 2 yrs and then gone home. Or for that matter a few surgical strikes to blow up their ego would not have been comntemplated with more conviction and confidence. in some ways the fact that we are apupers makes us that much more dangerous as our threshold will be that much lower.
people must understand that i will always be the first one to stand for peace between indai and Pakistan, but there will never be peace from a position of weakness and that is a proven fact that can be gleemed from history.
Araz

 

[Jango]

Warfare is now fought by different means.

Not all of the time...

 

[Dubious]

Dude have you seen our punjabi movies. The hero in those movies does impossible acts that will put Rajnikant to shame. So if throws back the bomb, our hero will bounce it on his right knee then his left knee and then bounce it on his head and again bounce it on his right knee and then kick it so hard that it will land in New Dehli.

@Slayer786 that was funny :rolf:

 

[FaujHistorian]

India did attack in 71 knowing fully well the capability of pakistani army. It may not repeat the success but attacking a non-nuclear pakistan for domestic political reason is not really a streach of imagination.

Its very much a deterrent against conventional war.

Why it is that so many posters on this thread have refused to study history and thus, show up with 3rd grade sarkari school issued kiddie books knowledge.

Pathetic. Really Pathetic. !


Here is a bit of education for the kiddos (based on the intellectual level unfortunately).


71 war had two fronts. East and the West.


Eastern front started with economic and later social unrest in the then E. Pakistan.
-- This allowed India to push 60,000 regular and irregular terroirsts into the area
-- These terrorist wrecked heavoc from March 1971 through end of November.
-- These terrorists raped Bengalid and Behari women (repeat of 1946 incidences)
-- However Pak army held its ground



Then for $tupid reasons (well there was intel that India is about to attack the Easter front)

-- Pakistani army opened up the Western front.
-- This was based on an outdated plan by Pakistani army that said we'll defend East by attacking India from the West.


Then the rest they say was history.



Lessons learned.


**. Pakistan will not be attacked directly.
India used asymmetric means aka terrorism for good 9 months or so.
** Economic and social unrest will udo Pakistan first before any military means will be used against it.
**. This was long enough time for Pakistani government and especially politicians to come to some conclusion and stop the $tupid @rse bloodshed
**. And prevent India from doing anymore harm to Pakistan.
**. Starting the 71 war based on outdated plan was $stupid @rse idea by the Pak army.


**. Logistics for the pak troops posted in the Eastern front were practically zero when Pakistani government allowed the $stupid @rse Ganga to be blown up in Lahore airport.


And the list goes on.

And you my dear sitting in a comfy UK apartment refuse to go the local library and learn a bit before posting half-truths aka cr@p that is not too different from the OP. Sorry to say.


peace to you.

By the same token give me two countries bearing Nukes that have had a fight. ...

Sample set for your analysis is too small.

this is why your stance is filled with false assumptions sorry to say.


Peace.

 

[livingdead]

I just replied to your post that India wont attack because PA is not exactly iraqi army that will surrender.
Its the same pak army we were fighting (east or west), I am not doing anlysis of your loss, was replying that IA knows your capability.

One of the reason why India does not want to attack is nukes,(and not because PA is special) which is why OP is right.
Please note attacking and getting victory is different matter, so I am not making any claim about possible outcome of such war.

I would claim India was agressor of 71(if not technically), IG's instructions to the then chief makes me believe so.

I have filtered your long post and removed most of the unnecessary spaces (and personal remarks), please reply if you think I missed something.

 

[FaujHistorian]

If Pakistan didnt have those weapons..India had 'tried it' long ago.
It the scare of tit for tat stopping india.

There are two serious issues with the assumptions.


1. Having a weapon is different from waving one in the public.
2. A modern state can come across as strong without doing $stupid @rse explosions.
3. You behave like North Korea, you will be treated as a beggar thug by the international community
4. you behave like South Korea, you will be treated with respect as an economic and social super power.

The choice is yours, or ours to make.

To be an international thug like Kim-Kim, or Sad Damn, or Gaddah (donkey) fee, Chavez, Castro

or be a low key, but strong leadership from Turkey, or South Korea etc.


peace

oh ! realy But Bangladeshi wants to hang Pakistani army for Raping 90000 women , and All Authentic sources say same . lol:

False accusations at best.


All our POWs were in Indian Jails for many many many months.

If there was a single charge of rape against them, the would have and should have prosecuted.

But there was none.

So Indian had to let go of them (begrudgingly).

to tell you the truth

-- Most of the E. Bengalis died in India (in Indian camps), and their women raped in India (in Indian camps).

So all this tamasha is what I say, resulting from poor 3rd grade knowledge acquired from equally 3rd grade TV talk shows and worse the sunni-sunnai baatain (heresy).


peace

 

[FaujHistorian]

I just replied to your post that India wont attack because PA is not exactly iraqi army that will surrender.
Its the same pak army we were fighting (east or west), I am not doing anlysis of your loss, was replying that IA knows your capability.

One of the reason why India does not want to attack is nukes,(and not because PA is special) which is why OP is right.
Please note attacking and getting victory is different matter, so I am not making any claim about possible outcome of such war.

I would claim India was agressor of 71(if not technically), IG's instructions to the then chief makes me believe so.

I have filtered your long post and removed most of the unnecessary spaces (and personal remarks), please reply if you think I missed something.

IA knows about PA's capabilities

And

PA knows about IA's capabilities too.


And this is why IA will never attack directly unless Pakistan has been weakened economically and socially enough to begin with.

Nukes have accelerated our economic and social decline of Pakistan.

and hence the threat of India has increased.


However if you follow North Korean doctrine, then Nukes are you gods

If you follow South Koreans, then Nukes are not needed.


Take your pick and so should OP

 

[livingdead]

IA knows about PA's capabilities

And

PA knows about IA's capabilities too.


And this is why IA will never attack directly unless Pakistan has been weakened economically and socially enough to begin with.

Nukes have accelerated our economic and social decline of Pakistan.

and hence the threat of India has increased.


However if you follow North Korean doctrine, then Nukes are you gods

If you follow South Koreans, then Nukes are not needed.


Take your pick and so should OP

IA does not decide war, GoI does. Surely it takes input from IA.
There can be many reason to attack pakistan (depending on political entity in power, other domestic factors, opportunity ), but possibility of a nuclear war will always impact GoI's decision.

Kargil is a good example, although started due to PA generals, India showed considerable restraint. I would think its due to nukes.

North Korea is not only logical conclusion, recent economic decline is coincidental, and not due to nukes.
Sure you can go south korea way if you can find some country to guarantee your security, even china is too shy to do so.

 

[The Deterrent]

Nukes have accelerated our economic and social decline of Pakistan.

I respectfully disagree. The budget designated for development of nuclear weapons and their delivery systems is over-hyped, and is much less than estimated by foreign intelligence agencies (although I won't provide exact figures). Thats because Pakistan didn't do any major R&D in these fields, rather made modifications to the basic chinese developments.

Our economic decline has been accelerated by bad governance and short-sighted, wrong policies.
And I don't see how our social decline is affected by nuclear weapons

 

[FaujHistorian]

IA does not decide war, GoI does..

You are now doing behas-bra-eeay behas (useless arguments).

We already know the command structure of each other.


peace

I respectfully disagree. The budget designated for development of nuclear weapons and their delivery systems is over-hyped, and is much less than estimated by foreign intelligence agencies (although I won't provide exact figures). Thats because Pakistan didn't do any major R&D in these fields, rather made modifications to the basic chinese developments.

Our economic decline has been accelerated by bad governance and short-sighted, wrong policies.
And I don't see how our social decline is affected by nuclear weapons

Cost of nukes in one thing

Their impact on the larger economy is different.

Let's not confuse the two.


Doing nuke explosions and waving nukie dildo was the result of "bad-governance and short-sighted, wrong policies" (as you put it).

Peace

 

[The Deterrent]

Cost of nukes in one thing

Their impact on the larger economy is different.

Let's not confuse the two.

How so?

Doing nuke explosions and waving nukie dildo was the result of "bad-governance and short-sighted, wrong policies" (as you put it).

Yeah agreed, we could've kept a low signature just like Israel.