How good is a BLOCK70 F16 in comparison.

[iceman2009]

This beauty could quiet easily win the MRCA deal....

It will come with APG79 radar and even some JSF era electronics...

The AMRAAM 5D which is the best BVR missle in USA..

BUT

on the negative side it is a old platform compared to say rafael or F18SH

and has little or zero room, for upgrade to next generation level.


My guess is is inferior to Rafael Typhoon & F18SH cause these 2 planes have better newer airframes like more stealth or low RCS...


but is is a far cheaper to buy and in deed to maintain.

 

[Kharian_Beast]

It's not far cheaper, and with India's infrastructure, not easier to maintain either. Good luck, but I don't see MRCA materializing until 2015 and by then these platforms will not be as invincible as they might seem now. MiG 35 would be the cheapest option, let's see what happens.

 

[iceman2009]

Sorry Kharian.


The question was is the F16/70 on par to say F18SH or Rafael or even Typhoon

and your right MMRCA may not happen at all...........

 

[iceman2009]

Russians have quoted IAF $55M for mig35 mki thats before the israelis add their AESA ELTA 2052 and avionics kits/jammers.

its too much like the SU30MKI but $10m more expensive

 

[Kharian_Beast]

Russians have quoted IAF $55M for mig35 mki thats before the israelis add their AESA ELTA 2052 and avionics kits/jammers.

its too much like the SU30MKI but $10m more expensive

Right, but Block 70 would easily touch the $90+ million mark, though the capability it offers is pretty nice. In terms of comparison, I think the Rafale deal is sweeter on paper but the F-16 is a much more safe investment as it is a tried and tested bird. Rafale is still going through puberty. Eurofighter is nice but lacking AESA for now and at $120 million the most expensive option.

FA/18 is a nice bird but lacks some of the tech transfer India requires. The Gripen is pretty much out (it was a top 2 choice IMO).

 

[Lockheed F-16]

Russians have quoted IAF $55M for mig35 mki thats before the israelis add their AESA ELTA 2052 and avionics kits/jammers.

its too much like the SU30MKI but $10m more expensive

I am happy that we got a member like you, who's neutral and knows the subject, keep it on!

 

[Kharian_Beast]

Sorry Kharian.

and your right MMRCA may not happen at all...........

Indeed, and there are many sources that are starting to point this way.

 

[iceman2009]

Kharian.

I have herd that India has lost over $40 billion in forex in 1 year and the recession globally will slow down india,s GDP growth
to less than 6.5%. IT HAS AVERAGED over 8.5 last 3 years.

Also the other 2 services need urgent modernisation programmes like the Army wants to order 1500 MOBILE ARTILLARY and india wants TO modernise over 1 million men with western style battle comms head gear and body armour.. The NAVY needs 8 new submarines & the russians have tripled the asking price of GORSKHOV.

all of this is serious money..........

Some believe that IAF should wait and develope the LCA mk2... rather than spend $10 billion on mrca.

Don,t forget india will soon have to start contributiing $1 billion a year to russia for PAK FA this alone could go over $10 billion. in 10 years ....

INDIA WILL HAVE DROP ONE out of PAK FA or MMRCA

will know more by end of this year........

 

[Kharian_Beast]

$10 billion is also a very conservative estimate. Some people I've talked to regarding this deal suggest that in the end it would easily balloon up to $12-15 billion.

I think India will hush down the MMRCA while using more SU30MKI as a stopgap till 2025 when a stealth option becomes available.

LCA IMO will face the same fate as Arjun.

 

[iceman2009]

Kharian.

The IAF needs to replace 125 mig21 BISONS & 120 mig27m BY 2020...

Both of these platforms should already have gone....

They have both been upgraded because the LCA is 10 years late.

1. Worst case scenario = India cancels both MMRCA & PAK FA goes with 100 or so LCA with GE F414 engine from USA and ELTA radar from Israel from 2012 onwards (cost $5 billion+)

2./ Mid range scenario = The Above and continues with massive investment on PAK FA to induct 2025 onwards....(cost $5 billion + $12 billion for PAK FA research/development)


or cancels PAK FA saves $12 billion buys MMRCA in stead

3. DOES ALL 3 " THIS IS UNLIKELY " TOO MUCH MONEY.....FOR INDIA

 

[iceman2009]

IF I WAS MAKING THE DECISION...........

I wud go with mid range option..... ie option 2 defo keep with russia for PAK FA cause india can learn a lot from RUSSIA...

and go for LCA even with USA engine & Radar therefore sanction proof.

SAME ROUTE AS PAF for JF17 "" sanction proof "

 

[ju87]

LCA IMO will face the same fate as Arjun.

Check the Indian Defence section of the forum. LCA is slated to be inducted by 2012. I'd say that means it's not a failure.

 

[Kharian_Beast]

Check the Indian Defence section of the forum. LCA is slated to be inducted by 2012. I'd say that means it's not a failure.

Arjun will be inducted in small numbers. So will LCA.

We have differing definitions on what is considered a failure.

 

[iceman2009]

Kharian don,t be fooled by some of the NATIONILISTIC posting by both indians & pakistans on LCA project.

The LCA TEJAS is late by 10 YEARS i have already hinted at that.

As a result over half the IAF fleet is obselete ie too old.....

LCA stil does not have a indian engine THE KAVERI,,,,,, or a indian radar

AND THE indian BVR missle ASTRA is stil in testing phase........

but make no mistake india has learnt massively from this project...

FRM NIL/ZERO scientific base the LCA TEJAS has established a good base for 4 generation combat deveopment.

THE LCA has good FBW quaruplex system. glass cockpit,, compsite materials of body of over 50% so its light agile and strong.

IF IAF takes the American engine it will achieve the 95nt thrust that iaf is demanding.

And if the IAF accepts either the ELTA 2032 or even better the ELTA 2052 frm israel

THIS COULD YET BE A GOOD CAPABLE Light MRCA..

to replace those old MIGS and at a low cost of just $24m each....

 

[Kharian_Beast]

I agree that LCA has potential. Realistically though, MRCA would not be reality if IAF had much hope in LCA, to me it's just looking like a learning project and not going to replace 200+ obsolete fighters. I think SU30MKI + MRCA or SU30MKI + FGFA is what the IAF is looking at over the course of next 25 years, LCA will be something of a novelty I guess, unless MRCA or FGFA unwravel.