HOW do you win against an enemy who only needs to not lose?

[474474]

Might I suggest here what IK has been saying for a while ? Get the locals on your side, make them NOT sympathize with the Taliban, and they'l take care of the Taliban themselves. They are armed, they know the terrain, and most importantly, they know the people and their mindset. Support by the government, if any, should be salient and in the background.

we have tried that, either those tribal barbarians integrate and become productive members of society, or we fight them like any other taliban
Pushtoons have been given special treatment for too long. they come and ravage our cities, and we show them too much sympathy

 

[474474]

Why always this apologetic attitude and just trying to shift the blame on to the "bloody civilians"!

These civilians don't have any real power in security matters anyway, when they are allowed to nominally have power.

For more than half the time, the army was fully in control with no one to blame.

So, it is about finding scapegoats and not about resolving the issues.

Perhaps the issues are so intractable and of its own making. And there is no will to make a clean break still and leave what has clearly not worked, not produced result and has been devastating to country.

That disastrous policy was not of civilians' making even if they are being sought to be made scapegoats.

The problem is that Pakistanis consider Military and Civilian leadership as 2 separate entities.. Where as military is one of the tools of the trade of the civilian govt in a democracy. And there in lies the problem

there goes the thread

 

[RabzonKhan]

we have tried that, either those tribal barbarians integrate and become productive members of society, or we fight them like any other taliban
Pushtoons have been given special treatment for too long. they come and ravage our cities, and we show them too much sympathy

474474, please refrain from bringing in ethnicity into the debate. Most of our Armed Forces jawans fighting these barbarians are Pashtuns. ANP has lost more leaders and workers than any party in Pakistan. Taliban barbarians do not in any way represent Pashtuns, but in fact, they are the number one enemies of Pashtun culture and traditions.

 

[474474]

474474, please refrain from bringing in ethnicity into the debate. Most of our Armed Forces jawans fighting these barbarians are Pashtuns. ANP has lost more leaders and workers than any party in Pakistan. Taliban barbarians do not in any way represent Pashtuns, but in fact, they are the number one enemies of Pashtun culture and traditions.

I have met and worked with real pashtuns, and I know what our soldiers are like - i respect them and they are an irreplacable part of our country. BUT the taliban do have a softer image because of the pashtun facotr, they play the pashtun card and it works more often than not. Also, ANP openly accepts they're pro pushtunistan or loy afghanistan whatever

 

[RabzonKhan]

I have met and worked with real pashtuns, and I know what our soldiers are like - i respect them and they are an irreplacable part of our country. BUT the taliban do have a softer image because of the pashtun facotr, they play the pashtun card and it works more often than not. Also, ANP openly accepts they're pro pushtunistan or loy afghanistan whatever

Hey 474474, but that was in the past, now they are part and parcel of Pakistan. We should welcome them with open heart. Here are few excerpts from their manifesto:

Democracy and the rule of law.

No discrimination of any kind based on race, creed or gender. Every citizen of Pakistan shall have equal rights in the political, economic and social fields. Every citizen shall have the right to hold any public office and all discriminatory laws shall be repealed. The essence of security will be guaranteed among the religious and ethnic minorities.

Full provincial autonomy with the centre retaining control of defense, foreign affairs, currency, (communications and such other subjects which the federating units agree to.

Special attention to be paid to relations with Afghanistan. In view of the commonalities in culture, faith, language and history between people of Pukhtunkhwa and those of Afghanistan, determined efforts shall be made to promote cooperation in every field including economic, commercial, educational and cultural. Bilateral relations shall be conducted strictly on the basis of sovereign equality and non interference in each other’s internal affairs.

Relations with all countries will be governed by the principles of sovereign equality and no outside pressure, whether overt or covert, would be allowed to influence Pakistan’s policies and actions, which would be based solely on the national interest.

Please take some time and read the entire manifesto.



ANP Manifesto

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

we have tried that, either those tribal barbarians integrate and become productive members of society, or we fight them like any other taliban
Pushtoons have been given special treatment for too long. they come and ravage our cities, and we show them too much sympathy

I agree with you , Stone-aged , barbaric, bearded, scary pathans need a good lesson. When a part of body catch gangrene, it is removed, so you would agree with me that gangrenous FATA should be handed over to its real parent afghanistan, is'nt?
Pashtuns ravaging your cities? I assume you are a mohajir of karachi.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

I have met and worked with real pashtuns, and I know what our soldiers are like - i respect them and they are an irreplacable part of our country. BUT the taliban do have a softer image because of the pashtun facotr, they play the pashtun card and it works more often than not. Also, ANP openly accepts they're pro pushtunistan or loy afghanistan whatever

You might have worked with real pashtuns and you must have assumed them talibans because they were praying 5 times and because you might be-nimazi yourself.
Its fashion in karachi to view every pashtun as taliban and its MQM propaganda to blame ANPites as supporters of talibans. So you are confusing ANP, pashtuns and talibans as one.
Its true that most of supporters of talibans are among pashtuns. It was a pashtun , zia ul haq, who sowed seeds of jihadism, extremism in pakhtunkhwa and afghanistan. It was pashtun organization, ISI, who created and nortured talibans. The city of deoband is in afghanistan, from where deobandism and tablighi jamat has spread to pashtun areas after 1947, and have made them ultra-conservative.

 

[Vassnti]

Once Pak Army clears an area , it should rehabilitate its residents , teach them how to earn without killing , give them education , teach them the difference between Right & Wrong , if people are with you & they know you care about them , then next time a terrorist comes to them & tries to hire them they will catch him & hand that person to Army themselves.

Thats the mistake the Americans made twice, its not the Armies job to educate, rehabilitate and rebuild.
Armies make bad police but in an area where no one representing the Goverment other than the army has been seen for 50 years i dont see a lot of choices.

 

[Joe Shearer]

You might have worked with real pashtuns and you must have assumed them talibans because they were praying 5 times and because you might be-nimazi yourself.
Its fashion in karachi to view every pashtun as taliban and its MQM propaganda to blame ANPites as supporters of talibans. So you are confusing ANP, pashtuns and talibans as one.
Its true that most of supporters of talibans are among pashtuns. It was a pashtun , zia ul haq, who sowed seeds of jihadism, extremism in pakhtunkhwa and afghanistan. It was pashtun organization, ISI, who created and nortured talibans. The city of deoband is in afghanistan, from where deobandism and tablighi jamat has spread to pashtun areas after 1947, and have made them ultra-conservative.

Two mistakes, therefore doubts about all other 'facts' cited.

Zia ul-Haq was not Pashtun, he was Arain. Deoband is not in Afghanistan, it is in India, in UP.

 

[KS]

Two mistakes, therefore doubts about all other 'facts' cited.

Zia ul-Haq was not Pashtun, he was Arain. Deoband is not in Afghanistan, it is in India, in UP.

It was a see-yourself-in-the-mirror reply to a Karachiite (Mohajir) about ANP and Pashtuns being extremist.

Sarcasm. You need a crash course in it.

 

[RazorMC]

The current government should not be expected to look beyond ISB. Civilian administrators need to focus their energy on securing FATA and other hotspots through development, rehabilitation and re-education. Otherwise we are going to be looking at a constant battle-ground scenario for decades to come, cultivating hordes of terrorists and anti-Pakistan elements.

No army in the world can keep up with this cancer-like growth nor can they sustain a permanent state of battle beyond a certain time-frame. Pakistan's resources would be unable to support a war for so long.

It was a see-yourself-in-the-mirror reply to a Karachiite (Mohajir) ...

Karachiite only means someone from Karachi. It doesn't automatically make one Mohajir.