How do Turkish nationals feel about the US / Kurd angle ?

[Timur]

with respect to the US/Kurd alliance

respect? respect towards terrorists?

I am out...

 

[TheCamelGuy]

should just return the situation to the early 90's when the kordish problem was dealt with militarily by every neighbor.

 

[KediKesenFare3]

You're talking about PKK. Using the terms PKK and Kurd/Kurdish synonymously is not acceptable.

respect? respect towards terrorists?

I am out...

https://www.seslisozluk.net/with-respect-to.-nedir-ne-demek/

@cabatli_53

Ustam bu konunun basligini bir zahmet US/PKK diye degistirebilir misin lütfen?

 

[TheCamelGuy]

You're talking about PKK. Using the terms PKK and Kurd/Kurdish synonymously is not acceptable.

Nearly all of them are a problem for neighbors when the right circumstance is there for them to choose who they support. A Kurd identifying as a Kurd will mean he seeks a country based on the lands they claim, they might be opposed to the PKK politically but they certainly are not at odds with their armed operations in Turkey when it comes to targeting military personnel. Yes, you will find some Turkified 'Kurds' who are different, they're a minority and do not even identify as Kurd when it comes to nationality.

You can say the above, it sounds politically correct but it's false. On this forum however it doesn't matter as we all are no politicians. When the opportunity is presented the masses of Kurds will do anything they can to destroy/take advantage of their neighbors, there has been enough evidence of this in all 4 states dealing with the kurdish problem.

Ancestors should've Turkified, Arabized the kurds instead, the whole concept of Kurdish nationalism is based on little that they share in common hence the non-ending kurdish civil wars, an identity created by some tribal monkey. No such thing as a Kurd.

Regards.

 

[KediKesenFare3]

Nearly all of them are a problem for neighbors when the right circumstance is there for them to choose who they support. A Kurd identifying as a Kurd will mean he seeks a country based on the lands they claim, they might be opposed to the PKK politically but they certainly are not at odds with their armed operations in Turkey when it comes to targeting military personnel. Yes, you will find some Turkified 'Kurds' who are different, they're a minority and do not even identify as Kurd when it comes to nationality.

You can say the above, it sounds politically correct but it's false. On this forum however it doesn't matter as we all are no politicians. When the opportunity is presented the masses of Kurds will do anything they can to destroy/take advantage of their neighbors, there has been enough evidence of this in all 4 states dealing with the kurdish problem.

If we're talking about the Turkish Kurds, you're simply wrong. In our case, a majority of at least 60% - 65% is pro Turkish. Another 15% - 20% is politically opportunistic. They support HDP mainly for economic reasons. Only 10% - 15% is hardcore pro PKK because of ideological beliefs. Why do you think PKK usually bombs bridges, burns schools, hospitals and tries to interrupt the development of infrastructure projects? Look at the Turkish map, every region with high support for PKK is extremely poor and underdeveloped. That's no coincidence.

You're an Iraqi. Iraqi Kurds are totally different from Turkish Kurds. Compared to Turkish Kurds, "your" Kurdish population is 100 times worse in every regard. Look, I know people from both groups. Iraqi Kurds are often teasing Turkish Kurds because of their limited ability to speak proper Kurdish. In Turkey, many Kurdish farmers & shepherds are getting billion Dollars of subsidies from the Turkish state every year. If you want to return to your village, you got money and state support. You have free health care if you're poor. I don't want to sound arrogant, as I always supported a unified Iraq. But comparing Iraq and Turkey in this regard is nonsense. Despite everything the Turkish state is more attractive to a Kurdish individual than the Iraqi, Syrian or Iranian state. As a Kurd, you can become a general, MP or dean in Turkey.

Outsiders like you always point to a higher birth rate among the Kurdish population of Turkey to forecast a coming disaster. But what you don't see is that 15 years ago, they had 7 to 9 children per woman. Within 10-15 years their birth rate declined to 3 - 4 children per woman. You foreigners never recognize the voluntarily Turkified Kurds who often don't want to be reminded of their heritage. Western scientists usually don't categorize Kurds according to their self-identity, which leads to wrong estimations and forecasts.

Do you even understand how attractive and amazing the Turkish identity appears for many Kurds? They want to be part of a bigger narrative; a history with an international dimension; a modern, civilized and rule based society (compared to other Muslim societies). As long as ordinary conservative, secular and even hardcore nationalistic Turkish citizens accept the self-chosen Turkish identity of ethnically non-Turkish citizens, this country will survive every Middle Eastern nation.

'Being part of Turkish nation' most popular identity for Kurds: Survey
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/be...urvey.aspx?PageID=238&NID=71847&NewsCatID=341

 

[Killuminati]

General question: Why US interfere with Turkish, Syrian and Iraqi geopolitics?

 

[TheCamelGuy]

If we're talking about the Turkish Kurds, you're simply wrong. In our case, a majority of at least 60% - 65% is pro Turkish. Another 15% - 20% is politically opportunistic. They support HDP mainly for economic reasons. Only 10% - 15% is hardcore pro PKK because of ideological beliefs. Why do you think PKK usually bombs bridges, burns schools, hospitals and tries to interrupt the development of infrastructure projects? Look at the Turkish map, every region with high support for PKK is extremely poor and underdeveloped. That's no coincidence.

You're an Iraqi. Iraqi Kurds are totally different from Turkish Kurds. Compared to Turkish Kurds, "your" Kurdish population is 100 times worse in every regard. Look, I know people from both groups. Iraqi Kurds are often teasing Turkish Kurds because of their limited ability to speak proper Kurdish. In Turkey, many Kurdish farmers & shepherds are getting billion Dollars of subsidies from the Turkish state every year. If you want to return to your village, you got money and state support. You have free health care if you're poor. I don't want to sound arrogant, as I always supported a unified Iraq. But comparing Iraq and Turkey in this regard is nonsense. Despite everything the Turkish state is more attractive to a Kurdish individual than the Iraqi, Syrian or Iranian state. As a Kurd, you can become a general, MP or dean in Turkey.

Outsiders like you always point to a higher birth rate among the Kurdish population of Turkey to forecast a coming disaster. But what you don't see is that 15 years ago, they had 7 to 9 children per woman. Within 10-15 years their birth rate declined to 3 - 4 children per woman. You foreigners never recognize the voluntarily Turkified Kurds who often don't want to be reminded of their heritage. Western scientists usually don't categorize Kurds according to their self-identity, which leads to wrong estimations and forecasts.

Do you even understand how attractive and amazing the Turkish identity appears for many Kurds? They want to be part of a bigger narrative; a history with an international dimension; a modern, civilized and rule based society (compared to other Muslim societies). As long as ordinary conservative, secular and even hardcore nationalistic Turkish citizens accept the self-chosen Turkish identity of ethnically non-Turkish citizens, this country will survive every Middle Eastern nation.

'Being part of Turkish nation' most popular identity for Kurds: Survey
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/be...urvey.aspx?PageID=238&NID=71847&NewsCatID=341

If what you said is true, then their choice of preference/support is based on (economic) benefits, not loyalty to a certain nation and identity.

 

[xenon54 out]

If what you said is true, then their choice of preference/support is based on (economic) benefits, not loyalty to a certain nation and identity.

In the end money is what people care about most.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

In Turkey , millions of kurds are living as a first class citizens. Total amount of kurds in Turkey can't count sharply, because they speak Turkish mostly, there is no such difference in look , they have been marriages for more than thousand year. kurds are living in every city and country in Turkey. So you cant draw a border inside Turkey to seperate them.

In Iraq kurds and Turks are living in the same zone in the name "state". Best ally of this state is Turkey. There is nearly free traveling and trade between Turkey and that state. Almost their all Infrastructure has been building with Turkey.

There is a roof organisation in region called kck. Their arms in iraq, turkey, iran and syria are busy with fighting in different ways with governments. terror, political, youth brainwashing, gaining supports from international organisations and other countries etc. their ideology is differential some times you see they are maoist, leninist, they use the names thet west like (democratic, people, etc..)

But in a simple word they are "etnic, facsist, kurdic organisation". They say their final goal to set "greater kurdistan" by combining kurds iran, turkey, iraq and syria .. but they have no ideas to solve the situation.

For instance :
_ how can they seperate the kurds and turks in turkey by ethnic.
_how can they move millions of kurds from istanbul,ankara,izmir,bursa,adana to their so called kurdistan and mountains.
_ how can they manage the many different languages in different zones and countries.
_how can they beat all iran, turkey,iraq and syria same time.

Etc etc..

Usa and some others are using them for their interests. But they will go in the end. We are here to eternity.

For a last sentence , Atilla the great says " if there is a problem with your borders ; expand it... "

I mean if syria, iraq and iran will be unsuccesfull of handling their borders and there will be terror zones for us (like kandil, sincar, tel abyad, menbic, afrin ..) then...

Thank you for the explaination certainly helps give better prespective on the issue from your country's prespective


Well it seems it is a externally funded ideology to develop a "Geographically" based faction to distrub the existing regional peace in region , as you stated initially Turkish folks do treat Turkish ethnic Kurds as member of their society.

So it seems this new idealogy is unnecessarily being brewed to create a rift in region

Fuel rift inside Turkey

• Turkey - Ethnic Kurdish Turk , disagreement
• Iraq - Kurdish confusion (20 year war contributing to feeling of distrust)
  
• Syrian - Kurd confusion (which has already happened)

Considering Turkey treats the people in their own border as first grade citizens don't see a need why anyone would want to side with Terrorist organization externally such as the KCK faction


Considering if you have freedom of religion in Turkey
Considering you have first grade treatment in Turkey (First class citizen status)
Considering you have good chance to grow economically (Jobs, Ability to buy homes etc)

It is illogical for anyone to support a cuase such as KCK

It seems to me that the KCK vision is more to do with continuation of assault on Turkish vision and valules since First world war. Even when Turkey has proven 100% their sucess in being a model Muslim state and leader (Economically and financially ). The bigger picture really is the vision to promote Turkey as not enough for cause of Turkish people which is why they need a new area called Kurd regions

• As a Pakistani we do support all the people who value the Turkish flag and citizenship is the only reality that is acceptable. There should be no harm to regional integrity of Turkey

The most important aspect is a state that offers you freedom to be free Muslim in your country to all citizens and where you ca live safely with your family.

There is no need for KCK based idealogy​

My personal view about region generally is that Turkey should take over Syria / Iraq Kurd areas permenently grow the borders if the idealogy continuously threatens Turkish Nation
Create a province if needed

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

In the end money is what people care about most.

Well in end what matters is who provides you with Dignity and Respect to create a family based on your faith. And you can live your life with respect , as member of a great nation like Turkey

The financial package for growth just shows the care Turkish government has planned for its citizens inside it's borders

 

[cabatli_53]

[Note: I had limited understanding of Kurd in Turkey and other areas divided across Syria or iraq before I started the thread ]

Lets just throw the whole aliance angle and just talk facts

I personally get confused to understand the dynamics of the relation between Turkey / Kurd and then US in mix

So I wanted to understand turkish point of view with respect to the US/Kurd alliance and Impact on national security of Turkey

View attachment 393806

This being the Turkish Map that most folks are familiar with.

How does Turkish folks feel about US arming up PKK Terrorist groups , or enabling a future enemy state to emerge on border of Turkey ? And why exactly has Turkey not gone with a full fledge Assault by ground to captuer all regions south of it specially those belonging to the Kurd rebels , in green belt


Turkey - USA : close but worsening relation
Turkey - Kurds : Enemies or allies
US- Kurds : Secret alliance
Israel - Kurds : Some secret alliance
Russia - Turkey : Where does Russia fits into Model ?

Sould , Turkey take over all Kurd regions and push the refugees to USA ? What is a reasonable outcome from Turkish prespective forget the Yankee prespective we all know it is just messed up

What I am trying to really go to bottom to is is PKK and the Kurd state same entity and if Turkey has a strong airforce and ground force why exactly are they allowing this state to form on their border , if this group has been involved in bombings in Turkey

Mojority of European media and generally US media portrays Turkey as a generally some what disfunctional Democracy (Obviously incorrect 100%) but that is the general understanding I get by observing the media and various Turkish military / Government policies.

Why is it that Turkey allows a formation of "Uncontrolled" entity on its Southern or Eastern areas (Kurd/ Disfunctional Iraq/ Disfunctional Syria).

Bro, please change "Kurd" with PKK or YPG words because Turkish Army don't have an issue with respected patriot Kurds but seperatist terrorist elements regrouped under the different names. Kurds in SE Turkey with their guns alıng with Turkish Army side bu side are protecting their lands to wave Turkish flag 7/24 against PKK.

 

[BordoEnes]

We should stand our ground and lay down our demands to the US. If you keep supporting a terrorist group that is an extreme threat to Turkey then we dont need to keep up this charade of being allies. Leaving NATO is the biggest fear the US and west can think off. If they lose the bosphorus strait then it gives Russia unlimited naval power projection capabilities, they wouldnt be bound to the Black sea alone but the entire mediterranean sea. Its the reason why every so couple months the head of NATO comes out and talks about how important Turkey is as an "NATO ally". Russia is not a good alternative to NATO but at the very least they are flexible in their demands and dont stab you in the back. They just stab you in the front lol.

And by the way we have absolutely no problem with any US/"Kurd" angle, we have a problem with YPG which is an affiliate of the banned KCK umbrella organisation, which PKK and PJAK/PDKI are a part of aswell. The very notion of such a suggestion should be considered racist.